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Why christians believe that jesus is God?

Ahmadi

Ahmadi

Member
may said:

Elijah foreshadowed John the Baptist, a forerunner of the Messiah. (Matthew 17:11-13)
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Thank you for the answer!

But now I have a second problem. One ascension was literal (Jesus pbuh) and the other was metaphorical (Elijah pbuh). How do you explain this?
 
M

may

Well-Known Member
Ahmadi said:
Thank you for the answer!

But now I have a second problem. One ascension was literal (Jesus pbuh) and the other was metaphorical (Elijah pbuh). How do you explain this?
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Jesus himself said that no man had ascended....john 3;13
Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man

 
James the Persian

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Ahmadi said:
So the Orthodox belief says that Elijah ascended to heaven literally as well as Jesus and the only difference is that one died and resurrected and the other didn't. My only problem now is the verse Matthew 17:11-13. Can you shed some light on these verses?

Farhan
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Actually, no, not really. I was simplifying things. God took Elijah up alive and he will later return. Where exactly he was taken is not precisely known, but it certainly wasn't exactly heaven. We don't believe that anyone will literally be in heaven (or hell) until the Last Judgement but that the dead (and note that Christ is not dead so this does not apply to Him) receive a foretaste of heaven or hell between the Particular Judgement after death and the Last Judgement common to all. I didn't bring this up because it's liable to confuse people, eastern soteriology being significantly different to western. Again, though, I fail to see the relevance of the issue to Christ's divinity.

James
 
glasgowchick

glasgowchick

Gives Glory to God !!!
Jesus is the creator

John 1:3 Through Him ALL things where made,without Him NOTHING was made that has been made.

Col 1:16-17 for by Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visable and invisable, wether thrones or powers, or rulers or authorities, ALL things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

God is the creator

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, The breath of the Almighty Gives me life.

Isa 40:28 Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, The CREATOR of the ends of the earth, He will not grow tried or weary and His understanding no-one can fathom..

Jesus is the rock

1Cor 10:4 for they drank from the Spiritual Rock that accompanied them, and That Rock was Christ. see also 1Peter 2:1

God is the Rock

Duet 32:4 He is the ROCK, His works are perfect, and all his way are Just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he. See also 2 Sam 22:32 & Isa 17:10

Jesus is our saviour

John 4:24 They said to the women, we no longer believe just because of what you said Now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the SAVIOR of the world.

God is our Savior

Isa 43;3 For I am your LORD your God, the Holy one of Israel your SAVIOR.
Isa 45:21 AND there is NO GOD APART FROM ME A rightous God and Savior.

Jesus is God......There are more proof Scriptures if needed....
 
B

bbpettit

New Member
As we read the Bible we see that in John 1:1-20 It tells us that the word was God. It is referencing the word being Jesus who was God, and who was with God in the beginning. One of the characteristics of God is His ability to be everywhere at one time. He can be God in the heavens, God in you and me, God as Jesus, and God as the Holy spirit. It is more of a miracle to believe that he can be everywhere serving many different functions. He is not three, but one who is everywhere doing many different things at the same time. Jesus was God in the flesh, and we have the opportunity to be like Him.

Barry
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Hi Barry,


Seeing as this was your first post, I wanted to welcome you to the forum;

I personally agree with you about the magnificence of God....

Hope you like it here!:)
 
glasgowchick

glasgowchick

Gives Glory to God !!!
bbpettit said:
As we read the Bible we see that in John 1:1-20 It tells us that the word was God. It is referencing the word being Jesus who was God, and who was with God in the beginning. One of the characteristics of God is His ability to be everywhere at one time. He can be God in the heavens, God in you and me, God as Jesus, and God as the Holy spirit. It is more of a miracle to believe that he can be everywhere serving many different functions. He is not three, but one who is everywhere doing many different things at the same time. Jesus was God in the flesh, and we have the opportunity to be like Him.

Barry
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Hi Barry, good post and welcome to the forum.
 
Ahmadi

Ahmadi

Member
IacobPersul said:
Actually, no, not really. I was simplifying things. God took Elijah up alive and he will later return. Where exactly he was taken is not precisely known, but it certainly wasn't exactly heaven. We don't believe that anyone will literally be in heaven (or hell) until the Last Judgement but that the dead (and note that Christ is not dead so this does not apply to Him) receive a foretaste of heaven or hell between the Particular Judgement after death and the Last Judgement common to all. I didn't bring this up because it's liable to confuse people, eastern soteriology being significantly different to western. Again, though, I fail to see the relevance of the issue to Christ's divinity.

James
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When it says in the Bible (and correct me if I am wrong) that Elijah was taken to "heaven", you don't precisely know where he is. When it says the same thing about Jesus Christ (pbuh), you precisely know that he is in Heaven. The relevance to the question of the thread is that the divinity of Jesus (pbuh) is based entirely upon his death and resurrection and 'ascension to heaven', which particularly plays an important role in your argument for the divinity of Jesus (pbuh). My question remains: why is one ascension to heaven considered metaphorical and the other is literal?

Farhan
 
Ahmadi

Ahmadi

Member
glasgowchick said:
Jesus is the creator

John 1:3 Through Him ALL things where made,without Him NOTHING was made that has been made.

Col 1:16-17 for by Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visable and invisable, wether thrones or powers, or rulers or authorities, ALL things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Click to expand...
Well, then, I disagree with the opinions of the translators of the original Bible. Just twisting some of the words to change the truth is not going to convince me.

God is the creator

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, The breath of the Almighty Gives me life.

Isa 40:28 Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, The CREATOR of the ends of the earth, He will not grow tried or weary and His understanding no-one can fathom..
Click to expand...
God is the creator as well as the Sustainer. If the breath of the Almighty gave Jesus life, it also gives every one of us life. Are we all gods then?

Jesus is our saviour

John 4:24 They said to the women, we no longer believe just because of what you said Now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the SAVIOR of the world.

God is our Savior

Isa 43;3 For I am your LORD your God, the Holy one of Israel your SAVIOR.
Isa 45:21 AND there is NO GOD APART FROM ME A rightous God and Savior.

Jesus is God......There are more proof Scriptures if needed....
Click to expand...
God is our saviour because He sent the Prophets, including Jesus (pbuh), and there is nothing wrong with that. Every prophet is a saviour, correct? So, according to you, every prophet must be God?
 
James the Persian

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Ahmadi said:
When it says in the Bible (and correct me if I am wrong) that Elijah was taken to "heaven", you don't precisely know where he is. When it says the same thing about Jesus Christ (pbuh), you precisely know that he is in Heaven. The relevance to the question of the thread is that the divinity of Jesus (pbuh) is based entirely upon his death and resurrection and 'ascension to heaven', which particularly plays an important role in your argument for the divinity of Jesus (pbuh). My question remains: why is one ascension to heaven considered metaphorical and the other is literal?

Farhan
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Firstly, Christ's divinity is based on His Incarnation (clearly referred to in John's Gospel) and His pre-existence as the eternally begotten Son of God (also in John) not just His death, resurrection and ascension. You seem to have missed a large part (and from an Orthodox perspective, the most important part) of the argument. Secondly, we don't see Elijah's ascension as metaphorical - it's literal but the text says 'as it were to heaven', which leaves some doubt as to exactly where he ascended to. Again, you seem to have missed an important part of the text. I still fail to see the relevance of this whole line of questioning. I can see no connection whatsoever between what happened to Elijah and the divinity of Christ.

James
 
Ahmadi

Ahmadi

Member
IacobPersul said:
Firstly, Christ's divinity is based on His Incarnation (clearly referred to in John's Gospel) and His pre-existence as the eternally begotten Son of God (also in John) not just His death, resurrection and ascension. You seem to have missed a large part (and from an Orthodox perspective, the most important part) of the argument. Secondly, we don't see Elijah's ascension as metaphorical - it's literal but the text says 'as it were to heaven', which leaves some doubt as to exactly where he ascended to. Again, you seem to have missed an important part of the text. I still fail to see the relevance of this whole line of questioning. I can see no connection whatsoever between what happened to Elijah and the divinity of Christ.

James
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Are you saying that Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension are not important parts of the argument?

Again, when it says, 'as it were to heaven', you seem to doubt whether he is in heaven. However, when it says the same thing about Jesus, you seem to be sure that he is in heaven. I can't be sure that Jesus (pbuh) is in heaven - so, how can I be sure that he is God.

I believe that Elijah 'went to heaven' in a metaphorical sense and so did Jesus (pbuh). If it is metaphorical, then how can Jesus (pbuh) be in heaven? Then, again, how can he be God if he is not even in heaven?
 
James the Persian

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Ahmadi said:
Are you saying that Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension are not important parts of the argument?

Again, when it says, 'as it were to heaven', you seem to doubt whether he is in heaven. However, when it says the same thing about Jesus, you seem to be sure that he is in heaven. I can't be sure that Jesus (pbuh) is in heaven - so, how can I be sure that he is God.

I believe that Elijah 'went to heaven' in a metaphorical sense and so did Jesus (pbuh). If it is metaphorical, then how can Jesus (pbuh) be in heaven? Then, again, how can he be God if he is not even in heaven?
Click to expand...
No, I was saying that the entire Incarnation, which includes the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ is important, rather than just those three aspects of it, which is what you implied. I thought I'd made that fairly clear, but sorry if it wasn't.

It says 'as it were' with reference to Elijah. It doesn't say any such thing with reference to Christ. The Scriptures are very clear that Christ is in Heaven and seated at the right hand of the Father - of course, if you choose to disbelieve in that Scripture it is your choice but please don't keep making fallacious arguments based on a misunderstanding of it. It would be more honest to ask questions rather than making assertions. I would do so if discussing Islam or the Koran.

The rest of your post relates to a metaphorical understanding of the ascension you say you have and which I have already shown you we do not share, so I fail to see what you hope to achieve. I thought you were here to ask why we believe Christ to be God, not to tell us why you don't.

James
 
Ahmadi

Ahmadi

Member
IacobPersul said:
No, I was saying that the entire Incarnation, which includes the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ is important, rather than just those three aspects of it, which is what you implied. I thought I'd made that fairly clear, but sorry if it wasn't.

It says 'as it were' with reference to Elijah. It doesn't say any such thing with reference to Christ. The Scriptures are very clear that Christ is in Heaven and seated at the right hand of the Father - of course, if you choose to disbelieve in that Scripture it is your choice but please don't keep making fallacious arguments based on a misunderstanding of it. It would be more honest to ask questions rather than making assertions. I would do so if discussing Islam or the Koran.

The rest of your post relates to a metaphorical understanding of the ascension you say you have and which I have already shown you we do not share, so I fail to see what you hope to achieve. I thought you were here to ask why we believe Christ to be God, not to tell us why you don't.

James
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I am not sure whether I offended you but I apologize if I did. I think I have asked all the questions that I needed but I did not get satisfactory answers.
 
T

true blood

Active Member
The Word is clear that Jesus Christ is a man for every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things to God that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins, who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way, for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity called of God a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. Of whom we have many things to say seeing ye are dull of hearing for when the time when ye out to be teachers ye have need that one teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God.
 
E

enton

Member
Psalms 97:7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.

Who are demanded to do worship to the God of David?
 
F

free spirit

Well-Known Member
Ahmadi said:
Are you saying that Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension are not important parts of the argument?

Again, when it says, 'as it were to heaven', you seem to doubt whether he is in heaven. However, when it says the same thing about Jesus, you seem to be sure that he is in heaven. I can't be sure that Jesus (pbuh) is in heaven - so, how can I be sure that he is God.

I believe that Elijah 'went to heaven' in a metaphorical sense and so did Jesus (pbuh). If it is metaphorical, then how can Jesus (pbuh) be in heaven? Then, again, how can he be God if he is not even in heaven?
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What do you mean by (pbuh)?

Now Jesus is God. I will quote you no scripture just devine season.

To believe that he is God is easy, but to explain why he is God, is not easy. Let me try, I take that you know that he is the Word of God, and like the word of Ahmadi resides in Ahamadi, he sesides in God. do you undrstand that? because if you do not is useless going further.

So imagine youself as God, and your word abiding in you. That word in you creating thought is the only thing that makes you a living soul, take away the thought in you, and you became a vegetable alive but not living.

Also we were made in his image, so if you could look in yoursef and find the souse of your words you would be looking in the face of god with a small ( g ) because you would be looking at you own face.
God created averything through his word, and so do we. Yes we are made in his image.
And God's Word gave life to Mary's egg and the Word became flesh.
God is near to us then we dare to inmagime. :confused: Confused
 
Bedlam

Bedlam

Improperly Undefined
I'm sorry to say, you probably won't get a reply here. This thread is nearly four years old, and I don't think anyone that originally posted in it still hangs around here.

Poor little zombie thread.
 
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