joeboonda
Well-Known Member
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that BELEIVETH ON ME HATH everlasting life.NetDoc said:Re-read your post carefully. Do you ascribe to any other authority other than the scriptures? Many denominations do. But if you rely on only the scriptures then you need to reconsider your stance.
You say that baptism is a work. I would ask then for a scriptural reference to demonstrate this. What? Can't find one? How about I show you that BELIEF is a work.
John 6:25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, "Rabbi, when did you get here?"
26 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."
28 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." NIV
Obviously IF we believe someone, then we DO what they say. My Lord said:
Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. NIV
I would suggest that belief entails an action ON that belief. Let's look at Naaman;
II Kings 5:8 When Elisha the man of God heard that the king of Israel had torn his robes, he sent him this message: "Why have you torn your robes? Have the man come to me and he will know that there is a prophet in Israel." 9 So Naaman went with his horses and chariots and stopped at the door of Elisha's house. 10 Elisha sent a messenger to say to him, "Go, wash yourself seven times in the Jordan, and your flesh will be restored and you will be cleansed."
11 But Naaman went away angry and said, "I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, wave his hand over the spot and cure me of my leprosy. 12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than any of the waters of Israel? Couldn't I wash in them and be cleansed?" So he turned and went off in a rage.
13 Naaman's servants went to him and said, "My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more, then, when he tells you, 'Wash and be cleansed'!" 14 So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times, as the man of God had told him, and his flesh was restored and became clean like that of a young boy. 15 Then Naaman and all his attendants went back to the man of God. He stood before him and said, "Now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel. Please accept now a gift from your servant." NIV
So, what work did Naaman do here? He believed what the man of God told him and his belief prompted him to dip 7 times into that slimy river Jordan. In reality, GOD did all of the work. He was the one who cleansed Naaman of his leprosy, and so God does all of the work to cleanse us of our sins. Now go re-read verse 13... baptism is an expression of our humility. We don't have to understand it... just believe that God can do anything. How much eazier it would be if God asked us to feed 500 people. THAT would be a works based salvation. Here is a task: go do it. But baptism is an appeal to God... just as it says in II Peter 3:21.
But true faith leads us smack dab into baptism:
Galations 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. NIV
You are wise in understanding that it is ALL about the blood. It is the DEATH of jesus that was important to us as Christians, so please consider this passage out of Romans:
Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. NIV
Now let's revisit James' words in light of what belief should bring us to:
James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25B ut the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing ithe will be blessed in what he does. NIV
and
James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatand shudder. NIV
Jesus told me to be baptized, and by gum... I believed him and was baptized.
Whew, that was long... I hope it was half as lucid.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should BOAST. For we are HIS workmanship, created in Jesus Christ UNTO good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
When do we get everlasting life? When we believe we HAVE it. Is it of our works? NO, lest any man should boast. Should we obey God once we are saved by being baptized, and doing good works? Of course, for we are HIS workmanship, created UNTO good works. Salvation is a FREE gift, the works following show others we truly believe and are a natural result of our having been saved by the grace(undeserved, unmerited favor) of God.
Romans 5:15-18 But not as the offence, so also is the FREE GIFT; for if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the GRACE of God, and GIFT by GRACE, which is by one man, Jesus Christ hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the GIFT; for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the FREE GIFT is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one, MUCH MORE they which receive ABUNDANCE OF GRACE and of the GIFT of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore, as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life.
How many times is free gift and grace found here? Salvation is free to all who believe, works following as a result, nothing more. Now if a man says he believes in Jesus, and has no desire to be baptized or do good works, or love others, or change at all, then, of course one might question his faith. Actually, I would strongly question a person who would refuse believers baptism, as that is the natural next step in our 'growing in grace', so, I do not think we are too far apart on that.
Now, man looks after the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart. So sometimes, as we still have a sin-nature we battle, one may not be able to tell if someone is a christian or not, based on what they see on the outside. So I would be slow to judge, and let God judge, for he knows each man's heart. PEACE!
