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Why does God allow bad things to happen

Starsoul

Truth
I'm sure there are many people who don't suffer for causing misery to others. And, many reasons for this.
How can you be sure when,
1) you do not have those people display their miseries out in the world for the fear of THAT acknowledgment.

2) When the day of judgment is not here? How can you say that those people wont suffer? Maybe God ( as it is just) is giving them chance upon chance to repent their ways, and will punish them severely? How can you believe that( if they have the govt. the law and the police in their pockets) they will escape the wrath of God?

Again, The human designed system has to fail for man to know what his rigorous efforts are worth, which Man only uses to his own benefit. E.g If you discovered a gold mine, would you go around tell all people about it so that they can each partake in the treasure or would you take hold of it to claim its ownership? I think the latter is what has been happening in the world, and It can only stop when God looses all hope in humanity. That day will bring the day of Final judgment.

Why God allows bad things to happen.
Ok lets say that he did not allow bad things to happen, would you know then how evil a man can be when entrusted to his ownself ? How would you ever know that MAN , despite the streak of evil in him, can TRY to overcome it and keep his head straight?

If this life is temporary, so is the effect of evil, why bother so much over evil of others when there's sufficient evil within self to deal with?


Killing is killing in my book. There is never any justification for it. I can't understand why people feel it's okay for God to just kill off whoever He feels like - and not only that, but cause them to suffer for a simple nonsensical reason.
I dont know if you're speaking in context of christianty's concept, but Its a general desire of people that Nobody wants to suffer. Yet they all suffer.

Some can relate to the idea of suffering as the return of the suffering that they may have unknowingly caused to other people and now going through the same pushes them to be more humble ,incase they aren't too stubborn.

In Our faith though , when we encounter a suffering, we are encouraged to remind ourselves of our own mistakes that we may have done in the past (or recently)which may have caused someone else to suffer because of us, and almost always, there are more than one instances where one can remember being mean or selfish to someone else. And then it is encouraged to seek quick repentance from God, humbling oneself without delay, this humbling almost erasing the burden of suffering.

Its really hard to understand the concept of suffering in most of the other faiths that I have come across, and i see how people don't want to relate to it, i too wouldn't if i was of those faiths, Its very hard to own up to one's own mistakes i guess, and that is the ONLY self changing measure that man avoids at all costs, for the love of ego, or self.

Would you really recognize suffering as suffering though if you had never come across the pefect stories of happiness, happily ever after and the constant media indoctrination of a perfect life which heavily stresses upon happiness within this trianlge.

Money, looks, Popularity.

How can every person on this earth be rich, good looking and popular all at the same time?If not so, why relate happiness to these things?
 

jmvizanko

Uber Tool
Uh, I call fallacy.

Just because something can't be thought of doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist.

I'm not saying that there is one in this particular case; I'm saying that it would be for a different reason than this one.

Actually, I think its safe to say there is no good reason out there to randomly torture children. And even if there is one, until I hear it, I'm going to feel rather non fallacious in assuming there isn't one.
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it looks like we are. I can't love anybody who threatens anything, especially when it's death, pain and suffering. I can't and won't love someone out of fear.

Fear is not conducive it anything but itself and other dark-sided emotions.

That's kind of how I see it too. There are so many people who live beautiful, peaceful and good lives yet, will burn in hell for eternity simply for not believing in the 'right' God.

You are not the judge of mankind and neither am I. It's best that way.

To me, if one looks at the Bible with an open mind, it isn't loving.

To me, if one looks at the Bible with no love in his heart, it isn't loving.

Even if you get into Heaven, you will have suffered, perhaps horribly, in this life and still have the knowledge of the good people sent to hell. I wouldn't live my life for that, knowing what God as in store for people. I'd feel like a terrible and selfish person.

How do you know you're not already terrible and selfish now? Where is your idea of "good" emanating from other than yourself?
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
How can you be sure when,
1) you do not have those people display their miseries out in the world for the fear of THAT acknowledgment.

How can you be so sure for that same reason?

2) When the day of judgment is not here? How can you say that those people wont suffer? Maybe God ( as it is just) is giving them chance upon chance to repent their ways, and will punish them severely? How can you believe that( if they have the govt. the law and the police in their pockets) they will escape the wrath of God?

That would depend on whether I believe in the day of judgement - which I don't.

But, if there is - then I would expect murders, rapists etc to be punished accordingly - not for eternity though. But, people who live good lives (who just don't have the faith in God) do not deserve to be punished.

Again, The human designed system has to fail for man to know what his rigorous efforts are worth, which Man only uses to his own benefit. E.g If you discovered a gold mine, would you go around tell all people about it so that they can each partake in the treasure or would you take hold of it to claim its ownership? I think the latter is what has been happening in the world, and It can only stop when God looses all hope in humanity. That day will bring the day of Final judgment.

Money isn't what makes me happy - chairty for example would be. I would hope that I would use it to help others. But, of course people will all be different.

So rather than God act out how and help people find the right way, he will let people suffer until he finally has too much? Sounds like he's only thinking about himself.

Ok lets say that he did not allow bad things to happen, would you know then how evil a man can be when entrusted to his ownself ? How would you ever know that MAN , despite the streak of evil in him, can TRY to overcome it and keep his head straight?

If God didn't allow bad things to happen, then that man wouldn't be acting out in an evil way - because God would have stopped it.

There are many arguments you can make here - terrorists for example, they believe they are acting in the name of God and yet God allows them to continue - he could stop that easily.

There is the chain of reaction - one thing happens, and then someone acts out in revenge - God could easily prevent this - especially if it's good people who are hurt as a result - like 9/11 for example.


If this life is temporary, so is the effect of evil, why bother so much over evil of others when there's sufficient evil within self to deal with?

It might be only temporary, but right now this is all we know and it is very real.

I don't know what will happen once we die, so this life and the pain I go through now is my priority. So it's something to bother about.

I dont know if you're speaking in context of christianty's concept, but Its a general desire of people that Nobody wants to suffer. Yet they all suffer.

Of course no one wants to suffer, and many people don't deserve to suffer in the way that they do.

Some can relate to the idea of suffering as the return of the suffering that they may have unknowingly caused to other people and now going through the same pushes them to be more humble ,incase they aren't too stubborn.

I can't see it. If someone accidentally kills someone - they don't usually also end up getting killed. If someone causes someone else to have a fatal illness, they don't often also suffer the same.


Its really hard to understand the concept of suffering in most of the other faiths that I have come across, and i see how people don't want to relate to it, i too wouldn't if i was of those faiths, Its very hard to own up to one's own mistakes i guess, and that is the ONLY self changing measure that man avoids at all costs, for the love of ego, or self.

I don't usually equate a mistake to how one can suffer.

Would you really recognize suffering as suffering though if you had never come across the pefect stories of happiness, happily ever after and the constant media indoctrination of a perfect life which heavily stresses upon happiness within this trianlge.

Money, looks, Popularity.

How can every person on this earth be rich, good looking and popular all at the same time?If not so, why relate happiness to these things?


Of course I would. Being killed or dying or losing everything you own, is never going to be a good thing. Having a perfect life doesn't mean anything, suffering is internal a lot of the time.

I, for one, don't relate happiness to those things.

Wars, disasters etc they have been happening forever, the Bible mentions many - even saying that God caused them. That isn't something that I can accept - a life to me isn't something to just throw away, especially not for the petty reasons religion can come up with.

~

Sorry if I haven't made much sense, I have a horrible headache and can't think properly!
 

bhaktajan

Active Member
Originally Posted by
I'm sure there are many people who don't suffer for causing misery to others. And, many reasons for this.


::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
This can not be true. This is not seen nor observed to be a fact.

What is being discussed is:

The Landlord [God] is liable for any time some one falls and hurts themselves while walking around on His property.

I assume that posters to this thread are theists. And as theists we are given free will.

I can see why an atheist would argue --"there is no Landlord [God] because if there was one, He wouldn't let me get hurt" [lest I could sue for damages].

We have free will -and no qualifications exempt one from the Law. Ignorance nor, innocence, nor noble-oblige will spare one from nature’s rules of existence.

Would an atheist surmise that a parent need not supervise a roaming child if there was a God.

Bhaktajan
 
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Nerthus

Wanderlust
You are not the judge of mankind and neither am I. It's best that way.

Why does there need to be a judge? Pain and suffering is happening anyway.

To me, if one looks at the Bible with no love in his heart, it isn't loving.

I can't have love in my heart for something that comes across as cruel.

How do you know you're not already terrible and selfish now? Where is your idea of "good" emanating from other than yourself?

I'm no Mother Theresa, that can be said. But, I definitely do not deserve to be tortured in hell for eternity.

There is a general feel of what is 'good' - people who kill and rape etc are doing good.
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
If God didn't allow bad things to happen, then that man wouldn't be acting out in an evil way - because God would have stopped it.

No, He would not. God doesn't stop man from indulging his evil nature. Man has been given over (by God) to wallow in his evil nature. He will never ever save anyone against their will, of that you can be sure. The sinful world does not change because it prefers being sinful. The Devil has made certain that sin = fun.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
No, He would not. God doesn't stop man from indulging his evil nature. Man has been given over (by God) to wallow in his evil nature. He will never ever save anyone against their will, of that you can be sure. The sinful world does not change because it prefers being sinful. The Devil has made certain that sin = fun.

What about children with leukemia who WANT to be saved from the torture? Is their misery caused by "fun sin?"
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
No, He would not. God doesn't stop man from indulging his evil nature. Man has been given over (by God) to wallow in his evil nature. He will never ever save anyone against their will, of that you can be sure. The sinful world does not change because it prefers being sinful. The Devil has made certain that sin = fun.


If God did not allow bad to happen - then there would be no bad.

Our definitions of sin really do differ.
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
What about children with leukemia who WANT to be saved from the torture? Is their misery caused by "fun sin?"

That's another good point.

If suffering is the result of suffering we unknowingly cause others - why on earth are young children in pain and dying?!
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
What about children with leukemia who WANT to be saved from the torture? Is their misery caused by "fun sin?"

No, that's an example of life in a fallen, broken world. The innocent will always suffer because of this. Not a joyous thing to contemplate, but the hope left to us is Jesus Christ.
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
So why does God allow things to remain unfair? If he is so just, why accept this to happen.

Accept it or simply allow yourself to be consumed by existential despair.

I'd much rather praise God for what is good than slit my wrists and overdose on pills in the bathtub.
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
Accept it or simply allow yourself to be consumed by existential despair.

I'd much rather praise God for what is good than slit my wrists and overdose on pills in the bathtub.

I am the kind of person that questions. I don't just accept what others tell me.

I'd rather live my life, than worship someone who is happily to kill me off tomorrow.

But, like we've already said - we have very different views.
 

jtartar

Well-Known Member
I have always heard that God is good... and he loves everyone... if that is true, why does he allow those that he loves, to go through bad things (be raped, murdered, etc)?????

VenatorAnima,
When Satan told Eve that she positively would not die if she ate of the tree of knowledge of good and bad, Satan called God a lier,, because God told Adam that they would surely die, Gen 2:17,3:4,5.
When they disobeyed God and followed the Devil, God allowed them to go their way, but they became alienated from God. When they sinned they became imperfect and started toward death.
Satan challenged God with the statement that all men would turn against Him, if their lives were at stake, Job 2:4,5.
There were two reasons for God to allow mankind to follow Satan if that is what they desired. ONE is to prove to mankind that man cannot govern himself without God. Has not History proven this??? Jere 10:23. Mankind is headed toward extenction , and would succeed if God did not intervene. This is the issue of who really has the right to rule the earth. God, Jehovah set a certain time period for Satan and mankind to try every kind of government. That time period is almost completed, we are near at the door.
The other reason is; throughout all eternity mankind will be able to think back on, just how bad it was to live alienated from God, so we will never want that to happen again.
The worst has not come upon mankind as yet, we will be crying for and praying for God to help us get out of the mess we have made of the Beautiful Home He has given us, Rev 11:18.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
No, that's an example of life in a fallen, broken world. The innocent will always suffer because of this. Not a joyous thing to contemplate, but the hope left to us is Jesus Christ.

So... why is the world fallen and broken by no fault of the leukemia kids? Why do they suffer for what others have done?

Isn't punishing descendents for the crimes of an ancestor... well... unjust?
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
I am the kind of person that questions. I don't just accept what others tell me.

I'd rather live my life, than worship someone who is happily to kill me off tomorrow.

But, like we've already said - we have very different views.

I hope you never experience the kind of crushing despair I have.
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
So... why is the world fallen and broken by no fault of the leukemia kids? Why do they suffer for what others have done?

Isn't punishing descendents for the crimes of an ancestor... well... unjust?

From any human perspective, yes.

You and I are being punished for the sins of Adam & Eve, even though we had no part in what knocked them out of grace.
 
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