why did jesus body disappear...

waitasec said:

but why a resurrected body and not soul?

the idea of living in heaven in spirit after one dies would be explained by having jesus ghost appear to the disciples and it would make a powerful argument for an afterlife.

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The confusion may lie in the fallacy that man has an immortal soul. Man is a soul. Notice Genesis 2: "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (vs. 7).

The wording here is important. Note that man became a "living soul." The Hebrew word from which "soul" was translated is nephesh, which means "a breathing creature." This passage states that man became a living, breathing creature.

Now notice Ezek. 18:4, 20 "The soul that sins, it shall die" . Same Hebrew word for soul "nephesh" is used. If a soul dies, then it cannot be immortal! This explains the need for a resurrection. Man does have a spiritual component. What the bible reveals is quite different from what most people believe today.

waitasec said:

according to paul flesh and blood is perishable...
so i still don't get the meaning behind the missing body

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This sermon by Peter, 52 days after the crucifixion of Christ, on the Day of Pentecost when Jews from every country gathered in Jerusalem, tells us why Jesus' body had to be delivered up. I have not found a crucial reason why our physical body must be entact enough to be delivered up. It looks like the bodily resurrection was a specific instance reserved for Jesus as proof of every believer's salvation:


Acts 2:22-36 (King James Version)



22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

james2ko said:

When the glorified Christ returns to the earth, God’s Spirit-begotten children shall be like Him. At the resurrection, our present physical bodies will be transformed—made like His glorified body. In the same likeness He presented Himself to His disciples.

Isa 26:19 But those who die in the LORD will live; their bodies will rise again! Those who sleep in the earth will rise up and sing for joy! For Your life-giving light will fall like dew on Your people in the place of the dead! (NLT)

Psa 17:15* As for me, I will see Your face in righteousness; I shall be satisfied when I awake in Your likeness.

1 John 3:1–2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

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just like you said there is a transformation... not with jesus though
if you believe the bible jesus said, "a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have"

james2ko said:

1Co 15:46,49 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly Man.

Romans 8:18-19, 23 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

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are you contradicting paul?
flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven

all these scriptures you brought to my attention are speaking of the transformed heavenly bodies not our earthly ones...

tigrers99 said:

This sermon by Peter, 52 days after the crucifixion of Christ, on the Day of Pentecost when Jews from every country gathered in Jerusalem, tells us why Jesus' body had to be delivered up. I have not found a crucial reason why our physical body must be entact enough to be delivered up. It looks like the bodily resurrection was a specific instance reserved for Jesus as proof of every believer's salvation:


Acts 2:22-36 (King James Version)



22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

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"neither his flesh did see corruption"
then luke and peter are contradicting paul
where did they get this idea of flesh entering heaven?

james2ko said:

The confusion may lie in the fallacy that man has an immortal soul. Man is a soul. Notice Genesis 2: "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (vs. 7).

The wording here is important. Note that man became a "living soul." The Hebrew word from which "soul" was translated is nephesh, which means "a breathing creature." This passage states that man became a living, breathing creature.

Now notice Ezek. 18:4, 20 "The soul that sins, it shall die" . Same Hebrew word for soul "nephesh" is used. If a soul dies, then it cannot be immortal! This explains the need for a resurrection. Man does have a spiritual component. What the bible reveals is quite different from what most people believe today.

Click to expand...

the body is physical
"God formed man of the dust of the ground"
it decomposes after it dies
so maybe it's the soul/spiritual side that doesn't die. to live forever in heaven or forever in torment.

nonetheless, why was jesus body missing?

if you read mark...it ends with an empty tomb...many biblical scholars believe mark was the 1st gospel written and it ends with
"Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid"

The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20...

the plot thickens...so it seems.

waitasec said:

just like you said there is a transformation... not with jesus though if you believe the bible jesus said, "a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have"

are you contradicting paul?
flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven all these scriptures you brought to my attention are speaking of the transformed heavenly bodies not our earthly ones...

Click to expand...

Our glorified bodies will be composed of spirit but with the ability to create the illusion to appear as a flesh and blood human being. In John 20, "doubting" Thomas felt the resurrected Christ’s hands and side. Christ manifested the wounds in a physical body only because He chose to do so.

He had the ability to physically manifest Himself at will. In that very same account, He suddenly appeared in their midst—even though the windows and doors were shut! This could not have happened unless Jesus was a Spirit-Being. Physical bodies cannot walk through walls!

Angels, who are created spirit-beings, can manifest themselves into the physical as well. In Genesis 19, two angels literally took hold of Lot and his family to save them from Sodom’s destruction: "…the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city" (vs. 16).

The option to appear in human form will come in handy for us when ruling physical humans with Christ in His literal kingdom here on earth not in heaven, as scores of scriptures indicate.

james2ko said:

Our glorified bodies will be composed of spirit but with the ability to create the illusion to appear as a flesh and blood human being. In John 20, "doubting" Thomas felt the resurrected Christ’s hands and side. Christ manifested the wounds in a physical body only because He chose to do so.
He had the ability to physically manifest Himself at will. In that very same account, He suddenly appeared in their midst—even though the windows and doors were shut! This could not have happened unless Jesus was a Spirit-Being. Physical bodies cannot walk through walls!

Click to expand...

exactly! so why the missing physical body?

james2ko said:

Angels, who are created spirit-beings, can manifest themselves into the physical as well. In Genesis 19, two angels literally took hold of Lot and his family to save them from Sodom’s destruction: "…the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city" (vs. 16).

The option to appear in human form will come in handy for us when ruling physical humans with Christ in His literal kingdom here on earth not in heaven, as scores of scriptures indicate.

Click to expand...

handy or a convenient explanation?

the scores of scripture contradict jesus missing body...

True, flesh cannot enter the Kingdom. But Jesus' body has risen and glorified and it is only a glorified body that can enter the kingdom of God.

Perhaps the answer to the riddle is this:

Resurrected flesh and blood will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but flesh and blood will not.

angellous_evangellous said:

Perhaps the answer to the riddle is this:

Resurrected flesh and blood will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but flesh and blood will not.

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Brilliant!

angellous_evangellous said:

Perhaps the answer to the riddle is this:

Resurrected flesh and blood will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but flesh and blood will not.

Click to expand...

maybe you should re-write 1 corinthians, because that is not what it says
and make it easier for us unbelievers...

waitasec said:

maybe you should re-write 1 corinthians, because that is not what it says
and make it easier for us unbelievers...

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Hey I had to think about it for a minute, and that's what I do for a living. haha

waitasec said:

the body is physical "God formed man of the dust of the ground" it decomposes after it dies so maybe it's the soul/spiritual side that doesn't die. to live forever in heaven or forever in torment.

Click to expand...

Traditional thought says when a human dies they go to heaven or hell. Scripture begs to differ. When a human dies, the body decomposes and their thoughts cease (Gen 3:19; Psa 104:29; Job 14:10; Job 17:1; Ecc 3:20; 9:5) Their human spirit, referred to in scripture as the spirit in man (Job 32:8; Jas 2:26; I Corinthians 2:11)---different from the Holy Spirit-- cannot function and has no consciousness apart from the body (similar to how computer hardware cannot operate without software and vice versa).

This "spirit" imparts man's intellect/creativity and contains the recording of a person's personality and character traits and life experiences. It will be stored in a type of heavenly file cabinet, and be returned to the individual, in tact, at one of the resurrections. (Psa 146:4; Ecc 12:7; Heb 12:23).

waitasec said:

nonetheless, why was jesus body missing?

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His physical body was missing because it had to be resurrected as this prophecy indicates:

Psa 16:10 For You will not leave my soul among the dead or allow Your holy one to rot in the grave. The Hebrew word translated soul is "nephesh". Jesus was a living breathing physical human. He died and was resurrected, hence the missing body. In addition, He resurrected Christ from death to immortal life—thus making a resurrection to immortal, Spirit-composed life also possible for mankind (Rom_5:10).

this would make sense if our bodies would disappear when we die...
and for jesus body to return would make sense but our bodies don't disappear...

wait isn't there a story in the OT about a guy that doesn't die...and goes to be with god
what was his name?

waitasec said:

this would make sense if our bodies would disappear when we die...
and for jesus body to return would make sense but our bodies don't disappear...

wait isn't there a story in the OT about a guy that doesn't die...and goes to be with god
what was his name?

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hmm, Elijah, the "prophet of fire"?

james2ko said:

Traditional thought says when a human dies they go to heaven or hell. Scripture begs to differ. When a human dies, the body decomposes and their thoughts cease (Gen 3:19; Psa 104:29; Job 14:10; Job 17:1; Ecc 3:20; 9:5) Their human spirit, referred to in scripture as the spirit in man (Job 32:8; Jas 2:26; I Corinthians 2:11)---different from the Holy Spirit-- cannot function and has no consciousness apart from the body (similar to how computer hardware cannot operate without software and vice versa).

This "spirit" imparts man's intellect/creativity and contains the recording of a person's personality and character traits and life experiences. It will be stored in a type of heavenly file cabinet, and be returned to the individual, in tact, at one of the resurrections. (Psa 146:4; Ecc 12:7; Heb 12:23).



His physical body was missing because it had to be resurrected as this prophecy indicates:

Psa 16:10 For You will not leave my soul among the dead or allow Your holy one to rot in the grave. The Hebrew word translated soul is "nephesh". Jesus was a living breathing physical human. He died and was resurrected, hence the missing body. In addition, He resurrected Christ from death to immortal life—thus making a resurrection to immortal, Spirit-composed life also possible for mankind (Rom_5:10).

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~wiki
"The resurrection of dead humans is a central doctrine of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. It may refer to the literal coming back to life of biologically dead corpses by divine power, or to a purely spiritual resurrection where the 'dead' (human beings who are blind to their spiritual nature and the possibility of salvation) come to Life (in Christianity referred to as eternal Life) by means of spiritual awakening and subsequent transformation to a life of holiness. It is used both with respect to particular individuals or the belief in a general resurrection of humanity."

since lazarus was resurrected, did he die again or did his body enter heaven without breathing his last breath...

angellous_evangellous said:

Just a second. Where did Paul say that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?

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If the Kingdom is not of this world, that sounds about right.

waitasec said:

this would make sense if our bodies would disappear when we die...and for jesus body to return would make sense but our bodies don't disappear...

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As I mentioned, he had to fulfill the prophecy in Psa 16:10 to prevent decaying in the grave. Not the case for us.

angellous_evangellous said:

Hey I had to think about it for a minute, and that's what I do for a living. haha

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i'll give credit where credit is due,
bart d ehrman's
jesus, interrupted

you didn't think i came up with this on my own?

waitasec said:

~wiki
"The resurrection of dead humans is a central doctrine of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. It may refer to the literal coming back to life of biologically dead corpses by divine power, or to a purely spiritual resurrection where the 'dead' (human beings who are blind to their spiritual nature and the possibility of salvation) come to Life (in Christianity referred to as eternal Life) by means of spiritual awakening and subsequent transformation to a life of holiness. It is used both with respect to particular individuals or the belief in a general resurrection of humanity."

since lazarus was resurrected, did he die again or did his body enter heaven without breathing his last breath...

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He's definitely not in heaven:

Joh 3:13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

His physical body is asleep awaiting the first resurrection.