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Atheists are now supporting intelligent design

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
No it's not that. I don't have a computer, when i make my posts i am having to make them at college and i only get to do this once in every few weeks. I will at some point get back to some of the threads i started im just a bit tired down which college work at the moment.
Don't let the rude ones discourage you. Some posters haven't yet learned that being sure of oneself is no excuse to insult those who
disagree or have inadequacies in an argument. I'm still a fan of a good insult, but it should be clever, appropriate & not over-used.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
I'm still a fan of a good insult, but it should be clever, appropriate & not over-used.

A perfect insult (of which I am a master) is one that a person takes as a compliment and genuinely thanks you for, and then realizes much later that you had meant.
 
False. You cannot be an atheist and believe in Intelligent Design. You can believe that an alien race created humans, but that's not Intelligent Design. Intelligent Design requires an original creator who created all life.

You will probably try to go to the end of the world to deny that atheistic design exists but it does exist. If you read my original post, actually check out John Gribbins multiverse theory. He concludes the designers of the universe are humans themselves. Now becuase there are an infinite amount of universes with people in each universe the question of "who created the people and the universe" becomes voidless. As i am a hindu i do not believe in a begininng of the universe, the big bang is a no go for me. If there is no beginning (john gribbin multiverse theory also supports this) then really we dont have a problem here, ID makes sense for this model. Please have a read of John gribbins work, just for the record i do not support atheistic ID but i do believe in multiverses. it is interesting atheists are now embracing ID. atheists have clearly realised the universe is fine tuned for life many physicists are now admitting this.
 

RedOne77

Active Member
No it's not that. I don't have a computer, when i make my posts i am having to make them at college and i only get to do this once in every few weeks. I will at some point get back to some of the threads i started im just a bit tired down which college work at the moment.

I hear that, I'm in a similar situation except I have a laptop with less than optimal internet access. Several people here are overly aggressive and have an inflated view of themselves, don't let 'em get you down.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
You will probably try to go to the end of the world to deny that atheistic design exists but it does exist.

No, it doesn't. You're equivocating. The term "intelligent design" as it has come to be used means "the design of the universe and everything in it by an intelligent being". Using the term for anything else in the context of supporting that term is misguided.

If you read my original post, actually check out John Gribbins multiverse theory. He concludes the designers of the universe are humans themselves.

Exactly, which is why it's not Intelligent Design. However, I can't be surprised. The whole idea behind the ID movement has always been to distance themselves from creationism and pretend to be scientific, so that people might agree to their ideas, and then they could just substitute the Christian god for "the intelligent designer".

If you're talking about humans or other similar beings designing things, it's not even remotely the same thing as the Intelligent Design movement, which is about an all-powerful intelligent being creating our universe. Therefore it's dishonest to talk about atheistic intelligent designers.

it is interesting atheists are now embracing ID. atheists have clearly realised the universe is fine tuned for life many physicists are now admitting this.

Sorry, but no. They are not embracing intelligent design. And no, they have not realized the universe is fine-tuned for life, and many physicists are not admitting this. I'm sure you'd like to believe this, but it's simply not true, and you haven't given us any reason to believe it's anything other than a fantasy of yours.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
That technique is above my pay grade.
Wait....did you just insult me?

If I did, you wouldn't know it. At least not yet.

And then when you figured it out, your admiration for my wit would overcome any offense that you could take. You would admire me even more, and think more highly of yourself because you would think that you were special enough to receive my attention (which is invaluable).
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
If I did, you wouldn't know it. At least not yet.

And then when you figured it out, your admiration for my wit would overcome any offense that you could take. You would admire me even more, and think more highly of yourself because you would think that you were special enough to receive my attention (which is invaluable).
Is that another insult? I can't tell! Wait! You're......you're......agharghghrghghgh!
 

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
Atheists are now supporting Intelligent Design

Yes you read the title correctly. You can be an atheist and be a supporter of intelligent design. Some atheists and agnostics can support and are supporting intelligent design.

So what exactly do atheistic intelligent designers believe? Well most of them seem to believe the atheist intelligent design theories of John Gribbin “the multiverse theory” also known as the “designer multiverse theory”. Many scientists are currently supporting this theory including Martin Rees and Bernard Carr.
I have posted many links on the multiverse theory at the end of this article if you want to research this theory deeper.

One reviewer says very honestly “It seems to me that what Gribbin has done is undercut the entire case against teaching ID in public schools. If it's possible that the designer could be a being other than God then objections to ID based on its allegedly religious nature evaporate.”

Another type of atheistic intelligent design similar to the multiverse theory is the belief that humans have created life themselves. This theory has been supported by idealist philosophers for 1000s of years. If every object in the universe is created by human minds then this is indeed is a type of atheistic intelligent design. The philosophies of idealism and phenomenalism have both supported this theory. Physicists are now starting to embrace this theory.

Physicist John Wheeler once offered a suggestion: maybe we should approach cosmic fine-tuning not as a problem but as a clue. Perhaps it is evidence that we somehow endow the universe with certain features by the mere act of observation. It’s an idea that Stephen Hawking has been thinking about, too. Hawking advocates what he calls top-down cosmology, in which observers are creating the universe and its entire history right now. If we in some sense create the universe, it is not surprising that the universe is well suited to us.”

If you want to learn about the cosmic fine tuning theory have a look here:
http://www.discovery.org/a/91
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/te...nts/#CosFinTun
You can be an atheist or a theist and support the cosmic fine tuning theory of intelligent design.

Another type of atheistic intelligent design is the theory of Nick Bostrom. Nick Bostrom puts forward that life is in a computer simulation. Yes that is right life could be a virtual reality. Head over his website:

Here:

http://www.simulation-argument.com/matrix.html
Read his FAQ
http://www.simulation-argument.com/faq.html
or download his paper:
Are you living in a computer simulation?
http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

A common mistake is to believe intelligent design is religious or has to include God as the designer. Agnosticism and atheism are compatible with intelligent design.
No theory in the world is complete. Discoveries are always being made; even the ideas about evolution and intelligent design are constantly changing. I first thought it was not possible but I was proven wrong when a number of atheists and agnostics are now breaking away from the materialistic Darwinian evolutionist theories and are now starting to question it and come up with alternative theories some of which are based on intelligent design.

In the last 20 years a number of agnostics started to question the theory of evolution. Books by agnostics leading towards intelligent design were starting to be published. Check out Michael Denton’s Evolution a theory in Crisis or Richard Milton’s classic book “Shattering the myths of Darwinism”.

In the last couple of years a number of atheists have started to support intelligent design. Sorry to the militant atheists but it is true some atheists are supporting intelligent design. The one that will probably interest atheists the most is the work of John Gribbin with his atheistic multiverse theory which has already been mentioned and which we will discuss more on, Fred Hoyle and his panspermia theory, the Omega Point favored by Frank Tipler and Seth Lloyd also fit a similar role as does the fined turned universe of Paul Davies but these lead towards theism so probably would not, but the already mentioned Nick Bostrom's simulation hypothesis is supported by atheists. There are a couple of other theories mentioned in this article.

John Gribbin is an atheist who supports intelligent design. He supports the multitverse theory.
“This might sound far-fetched, but the startling thing about this theory is how likely it is to happen – and to have happened already. All that is required is that evolution occurs naturally in the multiverse until, in at least one universe, intelligence reaches roughly our level. From that seed point, intelligent designers create enough universes suitable for evolution, which bud off their own universes, that universes like our own (in other words, suitable for intelligent life) proliferate rapidly, with "unintelligent" universes coming to represent a tiny fraction of the whole multiverse. It therefore becomes overwhelmingly likely that any given universe, our own included, would be designed rather than "natural". – John Gribbin
“The argument over whether the universe has a creator, and who that might be, is among the oldest in human history. But amid the raging arguments between believers and sceptics, one possibility has been almost ignored – the idea that the universe around us was created by people very much like ourselves, using devices not too dissimilar to those available to scientists today. “John Gribbin
http://telicthoughts.com/intelligent...eism-friendly/

A couple of books by atheists have been published supporting intelligent design.

Read the book

Seeking God in Science: An Atheist Defends Intelligent Design" by Bradley Monton.

Bradley Monton is a strong atheist who has no intention of converting to any religion. He has written an atheistic intelligent design book. In his book he explains Intelligent Design is a valid form of philosophical and scientific inquiry that should be undertaken rather than dismissed.
A review of the book reads

“A new book challenges those assumptions, arguing that ID actually is science, that it is not necessarily tied to belief in God, that it is distinct from creationism, that it is not primarily politically motivated, that it can be appropriate for inclusion in public school science curricula, and that it is not the basis of some deep theocratic conspiracy.
The book argues further that for those who are primarily concerned with the pursuit of truth, those cultural hot buttons are the wrong issues to worry about anyway. Intelligent design is a valid and genuine search for explanation, a quest for understanding, a pursuit of truth; and it is manifestly worthwhile for those reasons regardless of what social issues may be attached to it.
A book like this must have been written by one of the presumed anti-science religious ideologues against which Forrest was warning, probably one of the “creationists” at the Discovery Institute. Right?
It is certainly true that the author has been called a creationist. But he is not a Discovery Institute fellow; he is an associate professor of philosophy at the University of Colorado. And he is an atheist.”
http://www.examiner.com/methodist-in...lligent-design

Not all theories of intelligent design involve God or a “supernatural entity”, these other theories of ID fit in the boat of atheistic intelligent design.

John Gribbins Atheistic intelligent design - "The designer multiverse theory"

Are we living in a designer universe? - Telegraph

The multiverse theory has nothing to do with intelligent design and has actually been used to challenge the idea of intelligent design. It is simply the idea that there are alternate dimensions. There is no good evidence to say that it is true though. The idea that observation changes the universe also has nothing to do with intelligent design. The idea that this universe was designed by humans is an intelligent design idea but has no evidence at all and I do not see why anyone believes it. The mass majority of atheists do not believe in intelligent design of any sort.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
The multiverse theory has nothing to do with intelligent design and has actually been used to challenge the idea of intelligent design. It is simply the idea that there are alternate dimensions. There is no good evidence to say that it is true though. The idea that observation changes the universe also has nothing to do with intelligent design. The idea that this universe was designed by humans is an intelligent design idea but has no evidence at all and I do not see why anyone believes it. The mass majority of atheists do not believe in intelligent design of any sort.
Yes it is true, the great ones have always had to swim against the mainstream.
Einstein is a prime example and was also a believer in ID I might add.
 
angellous_evangellous what are your beliefs regarding evolution and ID? You seem to dislike ID? But you are a Christian? So what are you a theistic evolutionist?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
angellous_evangellous what are your beliefs regarding evolution and ID? You seem to dislike ID? But you are a Christian? So what are you a theistic evolutionist?

ID is a sad, sad joke. It has little support in the scientific community, and for good reason.

Evolution is the only viable theory for many aspects of biology. Every branch of natural science has strengthened evolutionary theory since Darwin (there were evolutionary theories before him, but he best explained it).

And yes, I am a Christian, an intellectually honest one.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
The multiverse theory has nothing to do with intelligent design and has actually been used to challenge the idea of intelligent design. It is simply the idea that there are alternate dimensions. There is no good evidence to say that it is true though. The idea that observation changes the universe also has nothing to do with intelligent design. The idea that this universe was designed by humans is an intelligent design idea but has no evidence at all and I do not see why anyone believes it. The mass majority of atheists do not believe in intelligent design of any sort.

This is why I say it would be helpful if Mini would tell us what he means by "Intelligent Design."
 
ID is a sad, sad joke. It has little support in the scientific community, and for good reason.

Evolution is the only viable theory for many aspects of biology. Every branch of natural science has strengthened evolutionary theory since Darwin (there were evolutionary theories before him, but he best explained it).

And yes, I am a Christian, an intellectually honest one.

well im not a christian.. but the bible doesnt mention evolution. Infact no religious text mentions evolution.
 
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