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??where/why/change????
- Thread starter BIG D
- Start date
Skwim
Veteran Member
From the way I understand the story, the "'christ'/etc" event wasn't supposed to change the ongoing misery in the world, which, of course, it hasn't, but rather offer a way out of it. Evidently the Christian god isn't so much concerned with the quality of our lives on Earth, but with how much praise and adoration he can accrue.
Orbital
Member
Oh no of course he is concerned, you are forgetting that this is all a test, a playground for the great one, and if he wishes to bang two Lego blocks together, let him do so.
Eliot Wild
Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
As much as it absolutely pains me to do so, I must agree with Skwim. God, I never thought that that would happen.
Christian doctrine, at least as far as I understand it, holds that Christ came not to change this world but to offer man a 'bridge, if you will, to reconnect with the divine. Christ brought redemption to mankind, not renovation for a corrupted world.
Of course, to me this seems to beg the logical question -- If Christ had the power to redeem mankind, to overcome the abysmal chasm separating us decrepid, wretched sinners from an all-perfect, uncorruptable God, why didn't He fix some of these things mentioned in the OP?
I mean, think about it . . . Jesus Christ Superstar is, like, the world's most skilled carpenter, right? Literally, being God in the Flesh, he could fix anything, or at least I would suppose. So, why go to all the trouble of getting stabbed in the back by Judas Iscariot, dying painfully on the cross at Calvary and then coming back from the dead only to have a lot of former followers doubt and abandon you, when all he had to do was wave his magic Jesus wand and instead of just feeding 5,000 people with some dead fish, he could have fed all the world's hungry for all the foreseeable future? He could have elimated crime and suffering, or at least separated his followers from dirtbags like myself who think they're mostly full of crappola.
It's almost as if Jesus, the master carpenter, came down and built an extension to our garage, but he didn't fix the leaky roof nor the cracked windows nor the floor with the holes in it . . . And damn, Jesus, it's startin' to get a bit drafty in here.
Thesavorofpan
Is not going to save you.
WW2 wasn't a war about change, it was a war against an invading countries.
I don't know about other religions, but I know that the Christanity those that believe in the book of revelations, say that its suppose to get worst.
But in my view point, man is evil, therefore life on is cruel.
wow.....
EXCELLENT analogy with the garage, so even l can understand your point...I never thought of the bridge deal
Deutschland???
Excellent. :yes:
From what I can tell while reading the stories of the lives of any the "avatars" or spiritual mega-celebrities in human history, it was never their intention or purpose to overcome anything except human ignorance. They didn't show up on the scene to eliminate the obstacles in our way, but to show us what those are and how to get around them.
If a group of people are lost in a desert and a guide happens to show up, it's his job to show them the way out of the desert, not to turn the desert into a garden.
And if he did, what would be left for us to do?
Look: I'm not a Christian myself, and I don't believe in the historical reality of any of the events you mentioned, and I don't accept any of the above premises in regards to Jesus' nature or abilities, but, I can still see a flaw in your argument:
If the world was already screwed up when Jesus got here, then naturally God wanted it to be that way. Or maybe it's more fair to say that God decided to leave it up to us to decide just how screwed up our world would be. If Jesus were God, why would he change his mind now?
Maybe Jesus was trying to tell us it's time to grow up and move out of the garage.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Depends which involves less effort.
Wrong: if someone is a guide, if that's their job, it doesn't matter if they have the ability to snap their fingers and transform a desert into a garden, that's a moot point.
If their job title is "guide" then their only job is to show us the way out. Period.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
But if the desert-cum-garden is identical to the external garden in every respect, what's the point in going anywhere?
Well, if you were living on the Rivera, and you and almost all of your neighbors agreed that "Damn! This is a nice place! We really lucked out!" except for one neighbor who literally had his head up his *** and who kept telling everyone else there that "You're all crazy! This place looks and smells like ****", what needs to be changed?
+Xausted
Well-Known Member
Is it just me or are the two topics unrelated? what has WW2 got to do with Christs coming?
Why do people use that attrocity to explain away God (just incase you are unaware I am a nihilist so not coming from a Christian perspective)
My only response to the OP has already been answered several times: WWII was NOT a religious war.
Well, one obvious change that I could point out is that there's pretty much universal consensus that all those things are bad now.
As a species, we still engage in all of the above, for sure, but if you were to assemble a panel of judges from history, say: a Mongol warrior, a Viking, a typical Roman legionnaire, along with pretty much anyone from any modern society and asked them:
"Murder? Rape?The complete destruction of your enemies or anyone associated with them?:
Good or bad?"
You would get a resounding thumbs up from everyone on that panel except that last dude.
What part Christianity or religion in general played in that change is debatable, but there's no denying that at least some people and some societies experienced that change due to and as a direct response to religious influences.
Even if we want to give Hellenistic philosophy and The Enlightment it's due credit in all this you have to admit that Religion has played a key role there too: in the preservation of the former and serving as the basis for the response that became the latter.
No need to shout. We're all right here.
Skwim
Veteran Member
The reference to WWII is as an example of the horror that has gone on despite the coming of the "savior." In effect: as far as how we treat each other nothing on Earth has changed.
Eliot Wild
Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
Eat the fish. I love me some seafood, especially that which comes in a shell. Uhmmmm, crab legs . . . forever. And, "Hey, Jesus, could you get us some wine to go with it?"
I'm just saying, I dig all the dying on the cross stuff and the sacrifical atonement that allows me to revel in God's abundant pleasures for all eternity---but toss us a bone before we die, huh, Jesus. Okay, if it has to be something small, at least he could have left us the cure for STD's.
Most likely so. I'll ask forgiveness 'cause I've been drinkin' heavily tonight and I'm just a little upset that SOMEONE---I'm not laying it on Adam and Eve---but someone is responsible for interjecting imperfection into what should have been a divinely-conceived, perfectly-designed natural process for splitting up a bar tab.
Again, probably so. But Jesus didn't have to find a secure location to hide from his girlfriend after wasting away another indulgent night at happy hour---where, I might add, the Jimmy Buffet margarita's with complimentary parrot-head umbrella garnishes were half price this evening.
Besides, if she locks me out of the house and I end up sleeping in the garage . . . Well, hell, I'm just that much closer to my car tomorrow morning, right?
Maybe this unpredictable world is a perfect creation afterall.
And if he did, what would we do with it? (I know what I would do with it, and don't think He would approve)
Yeah, I was always a little peeved that he never left us the instructions for that turning-water-into-wine trick myself.
Sure he did: how do you think he wound up sleeping in a garden with his 11 buddies that night just before the **** hit the fan?
And they say Christian charity hasn't had any impact on our society....
There ya go, it's all about perspective.
As long as it's fun sometimes, close enough as far as I'm concerned.
