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The biblical shibboleth

Hythloday

New Member
Dear all,

I hope you don't mind me assuming that you are all familiar with the following from the Old Testament (King James Version, Judges, Chapter 12):

1 And the men of Ephraim gathered themselves together, and went northward, and said unto Jephthah, Wherefore passedst thou over to fight against the children of Ammon, and didst not call us to go with thee? we will burn thine house upon thee with fire.
2 And Jephthah said unto them, I and my people were at great strife with the children of Ammon; and when I called you, ye delivered me not out of their hands.
3 And when I saw that ye delivered me not, I put my life in my hands, and passed over against the children of Ammon, and the LORD delivered them into my hand: wherefore then are ye come up unto me this day, to fight against me?
4 Then Jephthah gathered together all the men of Gilead, and fought with Ephraim: and the men of Gilead smote Ephraim, because they said, Ye Gileadites are fugitives of Ephraim among the Ephraimites, and among the Manassites.
5 And the Gileadites took the passages of the Jordan before the Ephraimites: and it was so, that when those Ephraimites which were escaped said, Let me go over; that the men of Gilead said unto him, Art thou an Ephraimite? If he said, Nay;
6 Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.


Being a non-christian but interested in the origin of the term 'shibboleth', I'm not exactly sure whether the above should be regarded as an allegory, parable, historical document or otherwise and would be very grateful if you could enlighten me. I'd also be very interested to hear if anyone knows whether the linguistic shibboleth occurs in the sacred texts of other religions such as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc.

Thanks in advance,

Hythloday
 

Jayhawker Soule

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Premium Member
It was just a word known to be pronounced differently by the two groups and, therefore, an effective test - nothing else.
 

Hythloday

New Member
Hi Deut,

Thanks for the prompt response.

Yes, I know, but why is it included in the bible and what significance does it have to christians? Is it just read as a historical account and nothing more? Or is it some kind of parable? If so, what doctrine is it intended to illustrate? Sorry about all the questions.

Hyth
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Hythloday said:
Yes, I know, but why is it included in the bible and what significance does it have to christians? Is it just read as a historical account and nothing more? Or is it some kind of parable? If so, what doctrine is it intended to illustrate?
It was just a word known to be pronounced differently by the two groups and, therefore, an effective test - nothing else.

Do you have any ... any reason to think otherwise?
 

Hythloday

New Member
Hi Deut,

Well, if what you're saying is true, doesn't this make the bible just a glorified history book? Forgive me if I am wrong, but most christians appear to believe that the bible is didactic, in which case there must be more to it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Hyth
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Hythloday said:
Hi Deut,

Well, if what you're saying is true, doesn't this make the bible just a glorified history book? Forgive me if I am wrong, but most christians appear to believe that the bible is didactic, in which case there must be more to it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Hyth
Hello, Hyth! Nice to meet you.

"Shibboleth" is an ear of cord.

Judges 12 is an interesting chapter. The Ammonites have vexed Israel, and God commissioned Jephtah to deliver the Israelites from the Ammonites.

When Jephtah petitions for military assistance, the Ephraimites hold back.

The reason they did this is not certain, but from my point of view, this is why:

When the land was portioned out to the 12 Tribes, sometimes they fought over who got what. The Danites were notorious for this. But three tribes, Gad, Reuben, and Manasseh, did not want to settle west of the Jordan River. They wanted the rich land east of the river, known as Gilead

Ephraim wants to annex the land of Gilead, it is rich in balm, a healing ointment. When Jephtah petitions for military assistance, they formulate a plan: hold back, then when the battle is over, accuse Jephtah of some form of treason or being a non-nationalist, then commandeer the land of Gilead, current shared by Gad, Reuben, and Manasseh.

Now this passage is mainly historical, but I believe it does have a spiritual significance.

Jesus is referred to as the Balm of Gilead because of Jeremiah 8:22. Had Ephraim been successful in annexing Giled to them, a tribe WEST of the Jordan River, scholars today could argue that Jesus was not interested in any territory EAST of the Jordan river, save for the fact that it belonged exclusively to Ephraim. Thus, by extrapolation, Jesus didn't care about the Gadites, Reubenites, or Manassites.

But God had the last word on this, and their coup didn't work. Jephtah defeated the Ephraimites. In Revelation, when the 144,000 Jews are sealed (12,000 from each tribe), Ephraim is not included in the names of the tribes (neither is Dan).
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
AV1611 said:
"Shibboleth" is an ear of cord.
Correction: make that "ear of corn" --- not "ear of cord". I should read my own posts before submitting. :eek:
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
From Wikipedia: Shibboleth

Shibboleth is the Hebrew word that literally means "ear of wheat". In the Hebrew Bible, pronunciation of this word was used to distinguish members of a group whose dialect lacked a "sh" sound from members of a group whose dialect included such a sound. The consequences of getting it wrong were fatal.

Modern usage

Today, "shibboleth" refers to words and phrases that can be used in a similar way—to distinguish members of a group from outsiders. The word is also sometimes used in a broader sense to mean specialized jargon, the proper use of which reveals speakers as members of a particular group or subculture. For example, people who regularly use words like "stfnal," "grok," "filk," and "gafiate" in conversation are likely members of science fiction fandom. Shibboleths can also be customs or practices, such as male circumcision.

Cultural touchstones and shared experience can also be shibboleths of a sort. For example, people about the same age tend to have the same memories of popular songs, television shows, and events from their formative years. Much the same is true of alumni of a particular school, to veterans of military service, and to other groups. Discussing such memories is a common way of bonding.

A shibboleth can also be the manner in which a word is spelled. For example, the Perl programming language is sometimes rendered as PERL (in all capital letters, as if it were an acronym), which is a clear sign to Perl community members that the document lacks respect for the published materials, and is therefore from an outsider. This is frequently used to sort out "good" job offers (where the job shop is hip to the Perl culture) from "bad" job offers (where they are not aware of cultural conventions) or to detect that a book on Perl probably is not useful, since the typography shows a lack of familiarity with the conventions of the language.
 

Jayhawker Soule

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Premium Member
Hythloday said:
Well, if what you're saying is true, doesn't this make the bible just a glorified history book?
No. It makes it an anthology of myth, folk history, political propaganda, poetry, and civil code.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Deut. 32.8 said:
No. It makes it an anthology of myth, folk history, political propaganda, poetry, and civil code.
Deut, I know this is way off subject, but is there a reason you have so much contempt for God? I suspect your remarks are beyond intellectual dismissals.

None of my business, but have you had a bad experience with Christians in the past?

My dad made me go to church every Sunday. They thought highly of him there, but I'm not going to say in a public forum what went on in our house Monday thru Saturday.

My dad got saved before he died, and I have forgiven him completely for everything (although my sister did not).

I hated church then and couldn't wait to turn sixteen, when I could then make up my own mind about going to church. But now I'm saved, and have been for 24 years (I'm currently 51), and believe me, I see what goes on in church and how they held my dad in high esteem there --- but I don't blame it on God.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
AV1611 said:
Deut, I know this is way off subject, but is there a reason you have so much contempt for God? I suspect your remarks are beyond intellectual dismissals.
But, in all truthfullness, your suspicions are driven entirely by your theism. I have no more contempt for God than for any other fictional character. My contempt for literalism, however, stems from a contempt for willful ignorance and the belief that your God is, in many ways, the projection of humanity at its worst, not its best. I must also admit that those who rail against science as they willingly and energetically embrace the biocide of the flood and the slaughter of the firstborn fill me with a particular loathing.
 

Hythloday

New Member
:( Oh, dear. I didn't mean to rattle anyone's cage. I'm just on a little fact-finding mission here. Can nobody answer my question? Thank you everyone for your (mostly) on-message replies, but I would really like to know why the biblical shibboleth story was included in the old testament. Is it a parable? Does it relate in some way to the tower of bable story?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Hythloday said:
:( Oh, dear. I didn't mean to rattle anyone's cage. I'm just on a little fact-finding mission here. Can nobody answer my question?
Why not the more honest question: Can nobody reinforce my presuppositions by giving me the answers I want?
 

Hythloday

New Member
Deut. 32.8 said:
Why not the more honest question: Can nobody reinforce my presuppositions by giving me the answers I want?
I'm terribly sorry, but we appear to have got off on the wrong foot. I have no idea what I have done to incur your wrath. Please let me know what it is that I have done to anger you and I will endeavour not to repeat it. In answer to your previous comment, I have no 'presuppositions'. As if it wasn't blatantly obvious already, I am posting on this forum in order to find an answer to my original question. Just in case you didn't understand it the first time, I will repeat it: why is the shibboleth story included in the old testament?:help:
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Hythloday said:
I'm terribly sorry, but we appear to have got off on the wrong foot. I have no idea what I have done to incur your wrath. Please let me know what it is that I have done to anger you and I will endeavour not to repeat it. In answer to your previous comment, I have no 'presuppositions'. As if it wasn't blatantly obvious already, I am posting on this forum in order to find an answer to my original question. Just in case you didn't understand it the first time, I will repeat it: why is the shibboleth story included in the old testament?:help:
As I said, it was a coup attempt that failed. God said BE SURE YOUR SINS WILL FIND YOU OUT, and this was recorded probably as a warning to future generations not to try something like that again, or God would do something worse.
 

Hythloday

New Member
AV1611 said:
As I said, it was a coup attempt that failed. God said BE SURE YOUR SINS WILL FIND YOU OUT, and this was recorded probably as a warning to future generations not to try something like that again, or God would do something worse.
Thank you.
 
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