Which Son is Jesus?

MusicProducer · Aug 23, 2005

Which Son is Jesus?

In the Old Testament the reader is introduced to two different Sons or Son of GOD. The first Sons or Son of GOD the reader is introduced to would be these.

Gen:6:2: That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen:6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Job:1:6: Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job:2:1: Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job:38:7: When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Dan:3:25: He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

These Sons or Son of GOD seem to have been the first created existence by GOD and of GOD. In Job 38:7 GOD is referring to the time HE created our environment and as you can clearly see HE acknowledges the Sons or Son of GOD as being in existence during that time. Is that the Sons or Son of GOD Jesus himself professes to be?

That next Son of GOD the reader is introduced to is clearly of human existence and of the bloodline of David the King. This Son of GOD being in existence seems to be conditional and is in direct relations to the Covenant between GOD and Israel not being broken. The reader is introduced to this human Son of GOD through this passage.

2Sam:7:14: I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

Or is this the Son of GOD Jesus himself is professing to be?

Katzpur · Aug 23, 2005

I believe that we are all sons and daughters of God, that we are His spirit children. I believe that, as spirit beings, we lived in Heaven with Him prior to birth. I believe that we are the sons (and daughters) of God spoken of in Job.

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. In other words, His relationship to our Father in Heaven is different from the rest of ours. Unlike us, He was not only a son of God, He was divine in His own right, and was the Creator of worlds without number, under His Father's direction. While we are God's spirit offspring, I believe that God the Father is literally Jesus' physical Father. (Please don't ask me how Jesus was conceived. I will tell you that I don't know, but that He was born of a Virgin.) At any rate, Jesus Christ, as the Son of God (with a capital 'S') has a true Father-Son relationship with God that is unique among all of God's children.

Mister Emu · Aug 24, 2005

Which son is He? The only begotten one.

michel · Aug 24, 2005

Katzpur said:
I believe that we are all sons and daughters of God, that we are His spirit children. I believe that, as spirit beings, we lived in Heaven with Him prior to birth. I believe that we are the sons (and daughters) of God spoken of in Job.

Hi, Katzpur

I believe the SONS OF GOD mention in Job are angelic beings for this reason:

The book of Job is a book of Poetry.

In English poetry, there are two major types:

compliments of SOUND - called rhyme
compliments of TIME - called rhythm

But in Hebrew poetry, you have neither. Instead you have what is called:

compliments of IDEAS
contrasts of IDEAS

In complimentary Hebrew poetry, you have an idea stated, then the same point restated, using different words. What we would call reiteration.
In contrasting Hebrew poetry, you have an idea stated, then the same point countered, using different words. (Proverbs is full of this type of poetry.)

With that in mind, let's look at the passage in question:

Job 38:6-7 = ...OR WHO LAID THE CORNERSTONE THEREOF;

WHEN THE MORNING STARS SANG TOGETHER,
AND ALL THE SONS OF GOD SHOUTED FOR JOY?

Thus, idea stated: the morning stars ... idea restated differently sons of God

So, in conclusion, the MORNING STARS and the SONS OF GOD are one and the same, since Hebrew poetry is being used.

And since, in the context, it's the 1st day of Creation, these SONS OF GOD are ANGELS.

I hope this clarifies.

may · Aug 24, 2005

there are many angelic sons of God but Jesus was the first-born of all creation in fact there are angels in heaven doing the work of God...psalm 103; 20

Bless Jehovah, O YOU angels of his, mighty in power, carrying out his word,by listening to the voice of his word

(2 Chronicles 18:18) And he went on to say: "Therefore HEAR the word of Jehovah: I certainly see Jehovah sitting upon his throne and all the army of the heavens standing at his right and his left

(Revelation 5:11) And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,

Also, with reference to the angels he says: "And he makes his angels spirits, and his public servants a flame of fire....hebrews 1;7

(Hebrews 12:22) But YOU have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels...........so there are the good angels doing the will of God ,and the bad angels who left Jehovahs service

And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day...jude 6

MusicProducer · Aug 24, 2005

Many belief systems are outside of the confines of the Bible and the Word of GOD. This is one of the main problems with religion today. People just invent what ever they want to invent what ever they want to believe. Humans have the ability to be Sons or Children of GOD but it is conditional. That condition is that we exist and stay within our Agreement with GOD, the Covenant. Otherwise we are referred to as Son of Man or Children of Men, we are the derivatives of Adam and Eve. We are not the Sons or Children of GOD while existing in a broken Covenant.

When it comes to the New Testament your belief starts to fall within the confines of the doctrines itself. Jesus is a Son of GOD and it is in harmony with how GOD introduces Jesus. To redefine or see Jesus as anything more or less is to deny GOD. GOD did not say Jesus is the Messiah, GOD did not say Jesus is an offspring of David, GOD did not say Jesus is Son of Man and GOD did not say Jesus is HIM. To believe in Jesus as anything else besides a Son of GOD is to deny GOD and thats how Lucifer works in order to prove to GOD that you are not worthy of GOD. Never, ever, ever, deny GOD.

Jesus himself claims to be one of the Sons of GOD as referred to in Geneses which would mean he is professing to be the Fallen.

Jn:8:58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The only Sons of GOD that existed before Abraham are the ones as in Geneses and they are the ones that became the Nefilim or Fallen Servants of Heaven. The entire New Testament concept causes one to deny GOD. GOD called the sacrificing of offsprings an abomination.

Deut:12:31: Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

You are proving to GOD that you are not worthy of HIM when you believe HE would accept or commit to something HE Himself has described as an abomination and against the LAW. You are outright denying GOD Almighty. The New Testaments is being used to test our loyalty to the Word of GOD, GOD proves us.

Deut:13:3: Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

michel · Aug 24, 2005

MusicProducer said:
Many belief systems are outside of the confines of the Bible and the Word of GOD. This is one of the main problems with religion today. People just invent what ever they want to invent what ever they want to believe. Humans have the ability to be Sons or Children of GOD but it is conditional. That condition is that we exist and stay within our Agreement with GOD, the Covenant. Otherwise we are referred to as Son of Man or Children of Men, we are the derivatives of Adam and Eve. We are not the Sons or Children of GOD while existing in a broken Covenant.

What "broken covenant" are you referring to?

MusicProducer · Aug 24, 2005

AV1611 said:
What "broken covenant" are you referring to?

You need to read the Old Testament to have an understanding that GOD made a Covenant with the Children of Israel and the Stranger that journeyed with the Children of Israel.

Katzpur · Aug 24, 2005

AV1611 said:
I believe the SONS OF GOD mention in Job are angelic beings...

...the MORNING STARS and the SONS OF GOD are one and the same, since Hebrew poetry is being used.

Hi, AV.

I believe you're right. I would just take it a step further and say that you and I were among these angels, these sons (and daughters) of God.

Kathryn

TashaN · Aug 24, 2005

Katzpur said:
He was not only a son of God, He was divine in His own right, and was the Creator of worlds without number, under His Father's direction. While we are God's spirit offspring, .

* I wish that you can proof for me that he is not only son like the others and like us but he was divine in his own right as you claim.

Katzpur said:
I believe that God the Father is literally Jesus' physical Father. (Please don't ask me how Jesus was conceived. I will tell you that I don't know, but that He was born of a Virgin.).

* I'm totally shocked Katzpur because you are saying don't ask how because i feel sad when we neglect our logic and mind and we stick to unproven ideas that we used to hear it from our family, friends or in the school.

and if you think that he must be so because he was born of a Virgin so you have to add one more God (Adam) so they become 4 not 3 because Adam "peace be upon him" had no father and no mother ( not even a virgin ) but NON.

Katzpur said:
At any rate, Jesus Christ, as the Son of God (with a capital 'S') has a true Father-Son relationship with God that is unique among all of God's children.

* you mean God had a wife and he got Jesus like that or he has no wife but he found him and adopt him or somthing??

please can you make it clear because i'm really confused

michel · Aug 25, 2005

MusicProducer said:
You need to read the Old Testament to have an understanding that GOD made a Covenant with the Children of Israel and the Stranger that journeyed with the Children of Israel.

MusicProducer, which Old Testament Covenant are you referring to?

Adamic Covenant, Noahic Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, Mosiac Covenant, Davidic Covenant, or New Covenant?

The reason I'm asking is because I want to know if it was a uni-lateral or bi-lateral covenant you're referring to.

I know what you mean by the 'children of Israel and the stranger'. That's a reference to the Egyptians that went with the Israelites when they left Egypt - (Numbers 11:4) - but I'm wondering which covenant you're referring to that was broken.

We Christians currently are living under the uni-lateral New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31 that was extended to the Gentiles (us) through the Jews (them) at Jesus' death on the Cross.

Only God Himself can break that one.

MusicProducer · Aug 25, 2005

AV1611 said:
MusicProducer, which Old Testament Covenant are you referring to?

Adamic Covenant, Noahic Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, Mosiac Covenant, Davidic Covenant, or New Covenant?

The reason I'm asking is because I want to know if it was a uni-lateral or bi-lateral covenant you're referring to.

I know what you mean by the 'children of Israel and the stranger'. That's a reference to the Egyptians that went with the Israelites when they left Egypt - (Numbers 11:4) - but I'm wondering which covenant you're referring to that was broken.

We Christians currently are living under the uni-lateral New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31 that was extended to the Gentiles (us) through the Jews (them) at Jesus' death on the Cross.

Only God Himself can break that one.

Your concept of Gentiles living under the New Covenant is an elusion Servants of Jesus have created in order to hide the fact that they are the people and religion that destroyed the fist House of GOD. It is an elusion to hide the fact that Israel and Judah were Judged by GOD and you were that Judgment, you where the Arm of the LORD. It is to hide the fact that the only religion on earth that creates an Army against GOD is the concepts of Jesus and his followers. It is to hide that fact that the Army of Gog, on that day, will be comprised mostly of Servants of Jesus. The Army of Gog must manifest because the LORD has Spoken it. This is the stipulations of the New Covenant and as you can see, it applies to Israel and Judah, not Gentiles. Choosing to be a gentile or heathen is of your own free will.

31: Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34: And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I havent meet a Servant of Jesus yet that was able to regurgitate all of the Old Testament LAWs through memory nor because it is in their heart. As a matter of fact most Servants of Jesus I have conversed with dont even know who the GOD of Israel is, let alone realize that HE has a Doctrine.

michel · Aug 25, 2005

MusicProducer said:
I havent meet a Servant of Jesus yet that was able to regurgitate all of the Old Testament LAWs through memory nor because it is in their heart.

Then you haven't met Jack VanImpe, aka, the Walking Bible.

michel · Aug 25, 2005

MusicProducer said:
Your concept of Gentiles living under the New Covenant is an elusion Servants of Jesus have created in order to hide the fact that they are the people and religion that destroyed the fist House of GOD.

Oh yeah? I just made that up? And it just happens to coincide with Jeremiah 31:31? That's interesting.

michel · Aug 25, 2005

Mister Emu said:
Which son is He? The only begotten one.

I say what Mr Emu says.

michel · Aug 25, 2005

MusicProducer said:
Your concept of Gentiles living under the New Covenant is an elusion Servants of Jesus have created in order to hide the fact that they are the people and religion that destroyed the fist House of GOD. It is an elusion to hide the fact that Israel and Judah were Judged by GOD and you were that Judgment, you where the Arm of the LORD. It is to hide the fact that the only religion on earth that creates an Army against GOD is the concepts of Jesus and his followers. It is to hide that fact that the Army of Gog, on that day, will be comprised mostly of Servants of Jesus. The Army of Gog must manifest because the LORD has Spoken it. This is the stipulations of the New Covenant and as you can see, it applies to Israel and Judah, not Gentiles. Choosing to be a gentile or heathen is of your own free will.

I hate to interrupt your 'Army of Gog' speech, but I'm still kinda wondering which Old Testament covenant you said was broken.

MusicProducer · Aug 25, 2005

AV1611 said:
I hate to interrupt your 'Army of Gog' speech, but I'm still kinda wondering which Old Testament covenant you said was broken.

which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

That one

michel · Aug 25, 2005

MusicProducer said:
which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
That one

Okay, MusicProducer, I agree with you. Yes, Israel is God's wife, metaphorically speaking; and it hurt God very much when she went after other idols. But please don't lay that on the 'mixt multitude' that came out of Egypt with Israel. Yes, Moses had an Ethiopean wife in Numbers 12, but she was Ethiopian - not Egyptian (not that it would have made a difference). And God punished Moses' brother Aaron and his sister Miriam for contending with Moses about it too.

But back to Israel. God put His 'wife' away for a time, but He never divorced her and 'married' us Christians. She is still His wife to this day.

And we Christians are, metaphorically speaking, Jesus' bride.

Which Son is Jesus?

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