Which God do you believe in?

Dan4reason said:

My question to this forum is which God(s) do you believe in and why? I want to try to flesh out this debate over which God is true and provide a wider perspective to this debate. If you do not believe in any God, then you can say why you don't and if you do not believe in a God not on this list, you can say which one and why.

I have noticed that most debates are between atheists/agnostics versus Yhwh, atheists/agnotics vs Allah, Yhwh vs Allah, and debated among those who believe in Yhwh. The purpose of my list is to provide a greater prespective to this debate.

Personally, I do not believe in any of these Gods because they do not have a scrap of evidence to support their existence and will not believe in majic beings until there is good reason to believe in them.

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There are many gods but only one true God, whose name is Jehovah (Psalms 83:18)
"Remember this, that you people may muster up courage. Lay it to heart, you transgressors.Remember the first things of a long time ago, that I am the Divine One and there is no other God, nor anyone like me; the One telling from the beginning the finale, and from long ago the things that have not been done; the One saying, ‘My own counsel will stand, and everything that is my delight I shall do’ (Isaiah 46:8-10)

Jehovah alone unerringly foretells the future and brings his purposes to reality. That is but one evidence of his Godship. False gods have no power to accurately foretell the future. Most of the gods you listed have faded into virtual oblivion. The other gods worshipped cannot prove their godship.

When coming in contact with false gods, Jehovah has shown himself to be the one true God. Among the false gods Jehovah has humiliated and defeated are Bel, Merodach, Baal, and all the false gods of Egypt, Philistia, and Canaan.

rusra02 said:

Jehovah alone unerringly foretells the future and brings his purposes to reality. That is but one evidence of his Godship. False gods have no power to accurately foretell the future. Most of the gods you listed have faded into virtual oblivion. The other gods worshipped cannot prove their godship.

When coming in contact with false gods, Jehovah has shown himself to be the one true God. Among the false gods Jehovah has humiliated and defeated are Bel, Merodach, Baal, and all the false gods of Egypt, Philistia, and Canaan.

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That's strange. You are saying that other gods exist, yet you are also saying that they cannot prove their godship. So...they exist but don't know how to prove it?

How does your God prove his godship? I mean, apart from the one example you provided about foretelling the future, which so many other religions do.

Lastly, why did Jehovah only humiliate those select few gods? What about all the others?

I tend to think of these deities as archetypes rather than distinct beings with a particular personality. While I am a theist, I think that the gods are fairly alien and multi-faceted and that as humans we can only really work with a particular archetype in the hope of having some degree of control over our rituals.
Where one deity ends and another begins is something we can only really guess at.

Some of the archetypes I use are:

Set, Lucifer, Nyx, Aphrodite, Ereshkigal, Leviathan, Amducious, Asmodeous, Typhon, Apophis/Apep, Thoth, Sh'yatehp, Satan, Belial, Flereous, Cthulhu, Yog Sothoth, Verrine, Rosier and various others.

Observant readers will notice the odd fictional name and one that is completely made up (by me) this is because I see the archetype and name as being more of a tool to aid ritual than as an actual description of a distinct deity.

Dan4reason said:

You are very vague I have to say! What sort of God do you believe in? Is he the God of the bible? What has he done? What does he think is right?

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His sort is "God", silly. He's done everything, and he thinks right is right (he's funny that way).

Jehovah alone unerringly foretells the future and brings his purposes to reality. That is but one evidence of his Godship. False gods have no power to accurately foretell the future. Most of the gods you listed have faded into virtual oblivion. The other gods worshipped cannot prove their godship.

When coming in contact with false gods, Jehovah has shown himself to be the one true God. Among the false gods Jehovah has humiliated and defeated are Bel, Merodach, Baal, and all the false gods of Egypt, Philistia, and Canaan.

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So it is written...

Your list is too short - although I understand space is an issue.

As I understand it there are about 2 billion Christians. That makes about 2 billion gods, then we have the 1.6 billion Muslims so that's 3.6 billion gods. Add on all the others and we've got a big number.,

This reality that you refer to - I had a quick look at Wiki and I gather there are about 6,872,800,000 of those. And rising.

rusra02 said:

There are many gods but only one true God, whose name is Jehovah (Psalms 83:18)
"Remember this, that you people may muster up courage. Lay it to heart, you transgressors.Remember the first things of a long time ago, that I am the Divine One and there is no other God, nor anyone like me; the One telling from the beginning the finale, and from long ago the things that have not been done; the One saying, ‘My own counsel will stand, and everything that is my delight I shall do’ (Isaiah 46:8-10)

Jehovah alone unerringly foretells the future and brings his purposes to reality. That is but one evidence of his Godship. False gods have no power to accurately foretell the future. Most of the gods you listed have faded into virtual oblivion. The other gods worshipped cannot prove their godship.

When coming in contact with false gods, Jehovah has shown himself to be the one true God. Among the false gods Jehovah has humiliated and defeated are Bel, Merodach, Baal, and all the false gods of Egypt, Philistia, and Canaan.

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Yes, the writers of the OT seemed to believe these other gods actually existed....

Exodus 12:12 And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment.
Exodus 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods?
Exodus 18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods.
Exodus 22:28 Thou shalt not revile the gods.
Numbers 33:4Upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments.
Deuteronomy 3:24 What God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works?
Deuteronomy 6:14-15 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you)
Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords.
Judges 11:24 Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess?
1 Samuel 6:5 Ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods.
1 Chronicles 16:25 The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods.
Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods.
Psalm 86:8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord.
Psalm 97:7 Worship him, all ye gods.
Psalm 136:2 O give thanks unto the God of gods.
Jeremiah 10:11 The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.
Jeremiah 46:25 I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods.
Zephaniah 2:11 The Lord will be terrible to them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth.

Madhuri said:

That's strange. You are saying that other gods exist, yet you are also saying that they cannot prove their godship. So...they exist but don't know how to prove it?

How does your God prove his godship? I mean, apart from the one example you provided about foretelling the future, which so many other religions do.

Lastly, why did Jehovah only humiliate those select few gods? What about all the others?

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They exist in the sense they are worshipped and idols made of them.
In most cases they are nonexistent—figments of human imagination. The Bible refers to these gods as “the product of the hands of man . . . , which cannot see or hear or eat or smell.” (Deuteronomy 4:28) “all the gods of the peoples are valueless gods.” (Psalm 96:5) The Bible speaks of the Devil as the "god of this system of things" (2 Corinthians 4:4). Even human judges are spoken of as gods in the Bible, because of their power and authority. (John 10:34,35)

The false gods worshipped cannot foretell the future accurately. Only the true God has done this. His Godship is also proved by his works. (Acts 15:14-17, Romans 1:20) Jehovah has acted throughout history to prove his Godship. The Bible record, often substantiated by secular history, show Jehovah has dealt with mighty nations, including Egypt, Assyria, Rome, and many others. Secular history and archeology have confirmed many events recorded in the Bible that Jehovah foretold and brought about. The fall of Babylon in one night is but one example.

There are literally millions of gods worshipped. Jehovah issues a challenge that applies to all false gods. "Bring your controversial case forward,” says Jehovah. “Produce your arguments,” says the King of Jacob. “Produce and tell to us the things that are going to happen. The first things—what they were—do tell, that we may apply our heart and know the future of them. Or cause us to hear even the things that are coming. Tell the things that are to come afterward, that we may know that you are gods. Yes, you ought to do good or do bad, that we may gaze about and see [it] at the same time. Look! you are something nonexistent, and your achievement is nothing. A detestable thing is anyone that chooses you.
(Isaiah 41:21-24)

Dan4reason said:

My question to this forum is which God(s) do you believe in and why? I want to try to flesh out this debate over which God is true and provide a wider perspective to this debate. If you do not believe in any God, then you can say why you don't and if you do not believe in a God not on this list, you can say which one and why.

I have noticed that most debates are between atheists/agnostics versus Yhwh, atheists/agnotics vs Allah, Yhwh vs Allah, and debated among those who believe in Yhwh. The purpose of my list is to provide a greater prespective to this debate.

List of Gods:

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I'll take Thoth and Yam, or is that sauce and jam?

Logic alone gives you an uncountable infinity of possibilities. Why would you need any more?

What no Priapus! Blasphemy! If this was a true god then everyone would want to devote to him!

Madhuri said:

Krishna is a name that represents reality, whatever that is. Krishna represents infinity, eternity and Love.
I feel a special connection with Krishna, as an avatar. But I can admit that I do not know what reality is. I simply have my feelings, my own style of logic, my subjective experiences and the way that my eyes see the world. It may be an illusion, but I often feel that this reality that I perceive is the only one that matters to me. It's the one I choose to pursue, in the hopes of discovering its reality. So I am not an adamant believer at all. I'm a seeker in many ways.

I do feel that Love binds everything. Or perhaps this is bad wording. To explain a little, Love (with the capital), is that connection we have to everything. Even in science, to some extent, there is this knowledge that everything is connected. Love is union. But love (without capital) is our glimpse into that union. I believe that fear and hate and ambition all stem from Love. It's like my sig says: the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

This idea of Love, that is probably the one thing that I absolutely do believe in, is why I choose Krishna. He is the only God concept that so completely embodies my experience of reality. And my religion, Hinduism (Sanatan Dharma) is the journey of realising our complete Oneness with everything. It is to dive completely into Love.

I hope that makes sense

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The reality we see is the only reality we think matters to us. However, the things you cannot see can also affect your life. It is important to have a perspective of the world that is as objective and accurate as possible.

I see what you are saying. You are saying that we are connected with everything and you are trying to realize that connection. My question to you is, what do you mean by connect? What is a connection? It is a physical connection, is it an emotional connection or what? I really want to know how a connection works.

It seems to me that you don't really believe in Gods but you only use them to represent ideas. Is that correct?

Klaufi_Wodensson said:

It's not about proof of existence. I have a connection with that religion, and it goes deeper than just believing in the Gods. It's not something that is explainable, it's just a feeling. And the religion is more of a way to live your life than a belief in Gods themselves. But like I said, it isn't really explainable. You just have to feel it. When I came across the religion for the first time, I just felt the connection. If you can't feel the connection, then you can't really understand it.

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I can understand this connection you are talking about because I felt it myself about Mormonism. However there is no way my emotions could have been smart enough to figure out ultimate truth all by themselves. If my emotions were indeed accurate enough identify the correct religious belief I would start putting them to work figuring out my Computer Science homework that is due in a week, because who needs to figure anything out anymore.

It sounds like even though you have many emotions bound up in your beliefs, you are still making God-claims.

Emotion without reason is blind. Reason without emotion is meaningless.

My concept of "God" is just that -- a concept, a metaphor. (I often feel like no one on both sides of this debate understands what the hell a metaphor is.) It cannot be said to "exist" or not exist. My religion is not meant to explain objective truths about the world. There is nothing for us to debate, no god that is the "true" god.

Personally I believe in the existence of all Gods and Goddesses. I simply only choose to worship a small selection.

Also, my perspective of the God of the monotheistic religions (meaning mostly religions that come from Judaism or are related to it) is different from His followers. I believe he is simply one of many Gods, and is not greater or lesser than any others, despite what He chooses to tell his followers.

tumbleweed41 said:

It is quite possible I am wrong. However, none of my beliefs conflict with natural scientific evidence. And if they ever do, I will (and have) quite willingly accept facts over belief. I accept that it has been shown that God is not necessary for our existance
If one must have a faith, I believe mine is the most reasonable approach to take.

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You are much more reasonable than most people I talk to on this forum because most people have little objectivity. It seems like you value facts over belief and that is something more people should start doing.

However, I do not see any of your statements validating your beliefs as having any substance. The fact that your beliefs do not conflict with natural science does not even make them slightly likely of being right. For example, if I believe in an invisible diety who is not detectable by any mechanism we have, and there is no evidence for that person, I have simply constructed that story simply to get around rational analysis and believe in the unproven and the unprovable. What I believe might as well be a joke.

That sort of thing takes evidence. I do have to wonder what is the point with faith. You seem to hold one, but I question the ability of faith to lead to truth. Faith is just believing without seeing and does not seem to lead to truth at all. I do agree that your faith is the most reasonable though.

Dan4reason said:

It seems to me that you don't really believe in Gods but you only use them to represent ideas. Is that correct?

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That is true, although I've only recently come to this. Most of my life I believed in a specific idea of Godhead. Now I'm more agnostic, but highly value spirituality. Sanatan Dharma suits me, because it is about seeking and discovering reality, rather than about dogmatic faith.

rusra02 said:

The false gods worshipped cannot foretell the future accurately. Only the true God has done this. His Godship is also proved by his works. (Acts 15:14-17, Romans 1:20) Jehovah has acted throughout history to prove his Godship. The Bible record, often substantiated by secular history, show Jehovah has dealt with mighty nations, including Egypt, Assyria, Rome, and many others. Secular history and archeology have confirmed many events recorded in the Bible that Jehovah foretold and brought about. The fall of Babylon in one night is but one example.

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If you know a little about other religions then you would know that the same can be said about the Gods in those. So I don't see how the Biblical God proves himself.

Madhuri said:

That is true, although I've only recently come to this. Most of my life I believed in a specific idea of Godhead. Now I'm more agnostic, but highly value spirituality. Sanatan Dharma suits me, because it is about seeking and discovering reality, rather than about dogmatic faith.

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So there is no 'One' on top?...no Almighty?

Thief said:

So there is no 'One' on top?...no Almighty?

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I didn't say that, I'm leaning toward agnosticism. It means I don't know if there is a God, and nor do I truly understand what it is to be this God, but I worship It anyway because of what it represents and seek to fully realise it's reality, if it is a reality (I'm hoping).