Politesse
Amor Vincit Omnia
Whatever you want, I suppose.
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Does your spiritual God interact with the physical world?
- Thread starter Beaudreaux
- Start date
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Politesse said:
I mean, what's the difference between saying that there is no God and saying that God is the physical world? How does such a position change your approach to the world?
If you can get your mind around the idea that a spiritual being can create physical things then perhaps you can work it out all by yourself. Science have taught us that all things consist out of unseen atoms and molecules, if it was not for the invention of the microscope we would not have known this, as far as spirit is concerned no microscope have been built yet which can see it, perhaps the spirit substance has so few molecules or atoms and are placed so far apart that a microscope can only see a small number of them and then science or atheist scientists can scream at the top of their lungs, "see" we told you so; only atoms and molecules here!
The interesting part is that atoms are all around us and we cannot see them, but they also exist in all things we can see feel and experience, which tells us that somehow something or someone manipulated those unseen particles to become a seeable, touchable, experiencable, thing, or did it just "happen" through no action.
The other interesting thing is that science have "discovered" D.N.A. D.N.A apparently tells us that every specific physical being looks the way it does because of the D.N.A, which in turn tells us that an intelligence must have had something to do with it, yet because we are "blind" and our eyes and ears are closed we cannot see or even attempt to debate the input of an unseen spiritual being or God if you will.
Once you can get to grips with these ideas the answers to the last two questions might start to surface.
And no I cannot prove it, neither can the atheist prove a creator or God do not exist. Both the theist and the atheist rely on the assumption, maybe by starting to work together will a God or Creator or a more acceptable truth about life be found.
Walmul.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i think the very fact that we can actually communicate is a wonder.
how people come together and connect, on a level that is not physical.
Politesse
Amor Vincit Omnia
Well, it gives me a different understanding of what the world is, and a different approach to traditional religions; I think my pantheism is not entirely irrelevant to other religious traditions even if it observes them in a different light. But because I have a point of entry, I am much more free to partake of the knowledge and wisdom of the world's faiths than say, an atheist or a fundamentalist monotheist might be. As to my approach to the physical world itself, I suppose it doesn't, though I do pray and meditate and so forth, and my awareness of God as a universal presence certainly affects how I do those things. It also encourages an attitude of patience and respect for all things, though of course one needn't believe as I do to value that quality.
NeoSeeker
Searching Low & High
If you are saying that God is the force behind the physical world, what does that mean as far as us knowing anything about God as a sentient being? Do we know what this force expects from us by studying atoms? I am spiritual, I sense something, but don't know what. I presently see no way to achieve any certainty on the matter. Maybe nothing in particular is expected of us in any particular time frame. I'm not vexed by not knowing, just intrigued.
While I'm not saying you are wrong, what is the basis for believing that? What separates this view from a myriad of other fairy tales?
How do you know with any certainty what you are sensing?
Politesse
Amor Vincit Omnia
No, I am saying that God is, in Godself, the physical world. What does the universe want from us? That's a murky pile of meaning and intention, much of which we must create ourselves. This is okay, since we too have a part in Godself, an inheritance as Christ put it. I don't think we are the only players on the stage, though. Does the study of atoms produce wisdom and insight, even direction? I think it does, if one is mindful about what one is doing and learning.If you are saying that God is the force behind the physical world, what does that mean as far as us knowing anything about God as a sentient being? Do we know what this force expects from us by studying atoms? I am spiritual, I sense something, but don't know what. I presently see no way to achieve any certainty on the matter. Maybe nothing in particular is expected of us in any particular time frame. I'm not vexed by not knowing, just intrigued.
I don't. Indeed, much of what one perceives is not as it appears, since everything must be translated through the "language" of culture. I'm a Christian in large part because I was raised as one, but because I am, it's Christ I encounter most often in meditation, the Holy Spirit my name for the effervesence that comes with contemplation even though it might just as well be called mana or something else, no? But just because something must be translated to be understood doesn't mean that something isn't there, just that we cannot see it well.
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Politesse said:
Why do you pray when there is nothing out there but the physical world?
NeoSeeker
Searching Low & High
You seem open minded however, don't you think having Jesus/Christ drilled into your head from an early age has not had an effect on your meditations? With certainty you have met Jesus, or maybe you are just assuming the force you sense is called Christ?
I think the idea is there is a conduit between our physical world and the spiritual world involving our brains, although I don't promote the idea as fact.
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Politesse
Amor Vincit Omnia
What do you mean by "nothing but"?
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Politesse said:
Come on, dude. You know exactly what I mean. I'm not speaking in parables or lofty poetic language. I mean that the physical world (a.k.a. "God" to you) is the only thing that exists.
Politesse
Amor Vincit Omnia
And my point is that I don't see that as an ignoble thing at all. As to whether there is anything "beyond" the universe, I confess I've no idea, but I'm content to think that might be the case. A God-concept in harmony with the universe is better than one that is in discord with it, and the universe is awesome in itself without the need for an invisible celestial world on the upper deck as it were. And while I agree that there may be nothing but the "physical" world, I don't think materialists necessarily have a monopoly on explaining what it means to be a physical object or what have you- I'm happy to include nested spiritual concepts in there as well. When I meditate, I'm contemplating all possible aspects of the self and setting, not just those that are apparent or that conform with a strictly secular worldview.
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Politesse said:
I don't think it's an "ignoble" idea to say that "God" and "the physical world" are synonyms. I just don't see how it adds meaning to either term. Many atheists say that there is nothing but the physical world, and that there might be something beyond it, but no evidence suggests so. Does "pantheist" = "atheist"? If not, why not?
Politesse
Amor Vincit Omnia
Well, did you read my posts? I mean, I have had a go at explaining why I don't consider this to necessarily be the case.