Wicca, the pagan temptation for youth

robtex · Aug 19, 2005

Sabio, do you really spend a portion of your time serving God by looking to bring down other faiths? That is very saddening. In response to your qoute,

Sabio said:
.
Two ethical implications of Wicca seem to make the religion particularly appealing to teens. First, Wicca advocates moral autonomy as opposed to accountability to the God of the Bible. Secondly, and following closely on the heels of the first, Wicca celebrates sexual licentiousness. For example, in her book "Philosophy of Wicca," Wicca devotee Amber Laine Fisher plainly states the implications of goddess worship for sexual ethics:
"

On your first implication....that could be an intersting thread on its own. If moral autonomy is a aspect of paganism than good for them. There stock just went up in my book if that is true. Why would you openly discourage anyone from thinking through their own code or morality? I got to go but I am gonna look at this and make a thread on it later.

On your second point...I am ignorant about wicca and sexuality but sexual ethics sounds good. I think the chrisitan paradigm of suppressing sexulality has done them more harm them good culturally. It is not one of those issues that goes away if you try to suppress it or pray it away. seems wiser to address it and manage it.

niamhwitch · Aug 19, 2005

Trapped in her pantheistic prison

lol... yeah... because pantheism is SUCH a prison. Once you become a pantheist there is NO turning back... yadda yadda...

niamhwitch · Aug 19, 2005

Sabio, do you really spend a portion of your time serving God by looking to bring down other faiths? That is very saddening. In response to your qoute,

Robtex... this isnt necessarily Sabio's views. This is an article he found from Baptist Press. We have no idea whether Sabio supports this article or not, he has not commented on that. Maybe he will soon so we can have a better understanding of what he meant by posting this...

michel · Aug 19, 2005

Ceridwen018 said:
This is nothing but ridiculous religious propaganda, and it disgusts me. Wicca is just as holy and valid as any other religion--even more so than most in my opinion. The followers of Wicca whom I have met, both on the forums and otherwise, have all had certain traits in common: They are all extremely peaceful, accepting, and in love with mother Earth. Christians would do well to pull their noses out of that Bible and take a page out of their book.

I also think its ridiculous how protective Christianity is of its members. "The youth are dabbling in Wicca! Oh no! Heaven forbid it that they should try and think for themselves!" Wicca, on the other hand, encourages its members to keep open minds and follow their own personal spiritual journey.

Whilst I personally agree with a lot of what you say,but an extract from 'wiccan overview'

Religious Education / Discuss Individual Religions / Earth Based Beliefs / Wicca

Wicca Overview
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1320

quote: "Though sometimes used interchangeably, "Wicca" and "Witchcraft" are not necessarily the same thing. The confusion comes, understandably, because both practitioners of Wicca and practitioners of witchcraft are often called witches. In addition, many, but not all, Wiccans practice what they call witchcraft and vice versa."

Which, I believe is where the 'fear' of the Christians is focussed; see http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305bt.asp for the Catholic view.

turk179 · Aug 19, 2005

Maize said:
He posted it, he should be prepared to defend it.

I agree. And I stand with what I said in the rest of my comment as well. He may or may not agree with it. I have posted negative articles about Wicca before in an attempt to debate its validity. If he agrees with the article then let the fun commence.

Dayv · Aug 19, 2005

yeah, uh, what happened to Sabio?

Feathers in Hair · Aug 19, 2005

Dayv said:
yeah, uh, what happened to Sabio?

I truly think he was simply being a good citizen and being sure that we were aware of some of the bigotry going on towards those in our group.

Rock on about anti-persecution! :jam:

turk179 · Aug 19, 2005

Dayv said:
yeah, uh, what happened to Sabio?

Maybe it was a hit and run post.:biglaugh:

Isabella Lecour · Aug 21, 2005

This is a hit and run post.

Anyone care to stand up and defend the artical for an arguement's sake?
I can't do it. I don't have enough background with that brand of religion to argue for it.
It would make a great exercise in sharpening debate skills.

Ceridwen018 · Aug 21, 2005

Anyone care to stand up and defend the artical for an arguement's sake?

No, but I can tell you what the opposition will say if they ever come around:

*clears throat*

"Witches and witchcraft are evil because the Bible says they are evil. Therefore, they are obviously evil. Also, throughout history there have been countless stories of witches and other people of magic doing nasty things like sacrificing people, eating babies, having sex with people they aren't married to, and putting raven's claw into their stews, (*cough* most likely fabricated by their Christian persecutors whom they "plagued" *cough*). You don't want your baby to be eaten now, do you? That is why witchcraft is evil."

Dayv · Aug 21, 2005

if this is a hit and run, as it seams, do people really expect to convert people like this? They just come across as intolerent cowards. If you're going to fight with this kind of stuff, have the guts to actually debate

Sunstone · Aug 21, 2005

I tust everything said about Wicca by the Southern Baptists about as much as I trust everything said about Ford by Honda.

turk179 · Aug 21, 2005

As this has happened, more emphasis has been placed on the goddess of Wicca, especially among neo-pagan feminists who believe worshipping a goddess leads to more freedom for women.

I have to question this part of the article for two reasons. Number one, It is my opinion that emphasis has been placed on the goddess in Wicca because of the oppression of the goddess in the Christian faith system. I personally believe in the equality of the Lord and Lady, but I am also a guy so that makes that point irrelevant(sorry.) Number two, Why do I always see the word feminist inserted in a religion bashing.I know quite a few female Wiccans and not one of them is a feminist. Is it because "mainstream" religions think that if you worship a female deity that you must be a feminist? This is something I am quite curious about and would like everyones opinion on.

Jaymes · Aug 21, 2005

Because worshipping anything than a male deity is obviously feminist nonsense, Turk.

Green Gaia · Aug 21, 2005

turk179 said:
Why do I always see the word feminist inserted in a religion bashing.I know quite a few female Wiccans and not one of them is a feminist. Is it because "mainstream" religions think that if you worship a female deity that you must be a feminist? This is something I am quite curious about and would like everyones opinion on.

I don't equate the two at all. Feminism is movement for equal rights for women, I don't see that has much to do with religion. Although a woman could be worshipping a female deity instead of a male one to make a point of some sort. But I would see that has happening rarely. Most of the Wiccans I've talked to say it's important to acknowledge both the female and the male, the duality together.

I think that feminism is not received well in some groups and the accusation of being a feminist is supposed to somehow hurt the intended target. I don't think they get that being called a feminist is not usually perceived as a bad thing outside their circles, although it could be confusing.

painted wolf · Aug 21, 2005

I'm a feminist (in that wonderful "old fasioned" sence that women and men are equil and anything a man can do a woman can do better

) and my diety isn't male or female.

when did standing up for your rights turn into an insult or a bad thing?

wa:do

ch'ang · Aug 21, 2005

I really wish that sabio would do somthing more than post and run it would be interesting to see how he would defend this.

Draka · Aug 21, 2005

turk179 said:
I have to question this part of the article for two reasons. Number one, It is my opinion that emphasis has been placed on the goddess in Wicca because of the oppression of the goddess in the Christian faith system. I personally believe in the equality of the Lord and Lady, but I am also a guy so that makes that point irrelevant(sorry.)

You are right on both points. Some have highlighted on the Goddess because they somehow are trying to compensate for mainstream patriarchal religions. This misses the true point of having both represented though, for equality and BALANCE. One cannot exist without the other and it takes both for creation of any kind. Male and Female, Father and Mother.

turk179 said:
Number two, Why do I always see the word feminist inserted in a religion bashing.I know quite a few female Wiccans and not one of them is a feminist. Is it because "mainstream" religions think that if you worship a female deity that you must be a feminist? This is something I am quite curious about and would like everyones opinion on.

A feminist is not really a bad thing, as Maize said it is simply trying to be considered and seen as equal after so long of being a second-class citizen. However, it can be used as an insult to denote a woman who thinks themselves better than men in general, or a woman who stands up for herself and doesn't "know her place". A certain someone that has kind of disappeared from this forum had taken to calling me this word a lot...and you just KNOW it wasn't meant nicely. And if anyone who worships a female deity is a feminist...I know a lot of male feminists

.

turk179 · Aug 22, 2005

Draka said:
A feminist is not really a bad thing, as Maize said it is simply trying to be considered and seen as equal after so long of being a second-class citizen. However, it can be used as an insult to denote a woman who thinks themselves better than men in general, or a woman who stands up for herself and doesn't "know her place". A certain someone that has kind of disappeared from this forum had taken to calling me this word a lot...and you just KNOW it wasn't meant nicely. And if anyone who worships a female deity is a feminist...I know a lot of male feminists .

Never thought it was a bad thing either. I guess I should have phrased my question as why do some people make the word feminist out to be a bad thing and then use it as an insult.
I would also add that some men feel a little threatened by an intelligent woman that knows what she is doing and can speak her mind.
I guess I would be one of those "male feminists" also

Shadow Wolf · Aug 22, 2005

I really wish that sabio would do somthing more than post and run it would be interesting to see how he would defend this.

Maybe he had no intention of defending it. Maybe he just posted it so the rest of us could read an article about another person who attacks Wicca and does not know the first thing about Wicca.

Wicca, the pagan temptation for youth

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