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Burning The Stars and Stripes.........

michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
[PART QUOTE=Seyorni]......................"Burning the flag is so anathema to most Americans that amendments to ban the practice are repeatedly introduced to Congress for inclusion in the constitution. Perhaps the citizens of RF are a bit more liberal, but, personally, I'd sooner sit on a hornet's nest than burn Old Glory in public.

The flag is an excellent illustration of my point, though. The stars & stripes is a symbol of, among other things, freedom -- freedom of dissent, freedom to criticize the actions of one's government, freedom to censure both literally and symbolically. Would you rather some malcontent expressed his outrage at some vile policy by burning a flag --or blowing up a building?

The outrage at flag burning lies not in the symbolic act itself but in the perceived disparagement of ones sacred values and patriotism.".......................

[/PART QUOTE]
Re : The Christian Paradox



I am thoroughly confused. I thought I remember being surprized at the fact that Forum members saw the burning of the American flag as an expression of free speech, and that it should therefore be regarded as permissable. From the following thread, two members say that in their eyes, it is wrong. Just to satisfy my curiosity; Right or Wrong ? (To burn the American flag in protest)
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
michel said:
[PART QUOTE=Seyorni]......................"Burning the flag is so anathema to most Americans that amendments to ban the practice are repeatedly introduced to Congress for inclusion in the constitution. Perhaps the citizens of RF are a bit more liberal, but, personally, I'd sooner sit on a hornet's nest than burn Old Glory in public.

The flag is an excellent illustration of my point, though. The stars & stripes is a symbol of, among other things, freedom -- freedom of dissent, freedom to criticize the actions of one's government, freedom to censure both literally and symbolically. Would you rather some malcontent expressed his outrage at some vile policy by burning a flag --or blowing up a building?

The outrage at flag burning lies not in the symbolic act itself but in the perceived disparagement of ones sacred values and patriotism.".......................

[/PART QUOTE]
Re : The Christian Paradox



I am thoroughly confused. I thought I remember being surprized at the fact that Forum members saw the burning of the American flag as an expression of free speech, and that it should therefore be regarded as permissable. From the following thread, two members say that in their eyes, it is wrong. Just to satisfy my curiosity; Right or Wrong ? (To burn the American flag in protest)
Click to expand...
Michel,

I'd say wrong, the flag is our symbol of freedom and liberty, and burning it is (to me) a sign that one does not respect our freedom and liberty. If someone wants to burn the flag in public they should expect to face the outrage of Americans, and the results of that outrage.

Liberal defendants of flag burning can defend the practice all they want, but let them "put their money where their mouth is" and try burning an American flag out in public.

Sabio
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Sabio said:
Liberal defendants of flag burning can defend the practice all they want, but let them "put their money where their mouth is" and try burning an American flag out in public.
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Just because someone would defend a freedom, does not mean they would engage in it or find it tasteful.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Flag burning always seems to me to be a childish and petulant act.
The citizens of most countries don't like it. and in some it is illegal with severe punishment.
it is the sort of act where the old Stocks would be the Ideal punishment.
You can't really humiliate a nation by burning their flag, but a couple of days in the stocks and a few bags of old fruit would make a pretty god job of demonstrating the public view on it.

Terry
_________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
Maize said:
Just because someone would defend a freedom, does not mean they would engage in it or find it tasteful.
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Why would one defend something they find distasteful, this seems hypocritical to me..

Sabio
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
Flag burning always seems to me to be a childish and petulant act.
The citizens of most countries don't like it. and in some it is illegal with severe punishment.
it is the sort of act where the old Stocks would be the Ideal punishment.
You can't really humiliate a nation by burning their flag, but a couple of days in the stocks and a few bags of old fruit would make a pretty god job of demonstrating the public view on it.

Terry
_________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
Click to expand...
Agreed, please add rotten tomatoes to your list of projectiles...
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Sabio said:
Why would one defend something they find distasteful, this seems hypocritical to me..

Sabio
Click to expand...

They're not defending the thing they find distasteful, they are defending a person's freedom to do it.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have no problem with this symbolic act, but it does enrage certain segments of society.

Sabio -- How is flag burning a repudiation of " our freedom and liberty?" How is exercising a freedom disrespectful of it? Isn't exercising a freedom a celebration of it? Isn't opposing the flag-burner the ultimate anti-American act -- a disparagement of the liberty the flag represents?

The fact that so many Americans oppose flag-burning illustrates their love of symbol over substance.
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
Seyorni said:
I have no problem with this symbolic act, but it does enrage certain segments of society.

Sabio -- How is flag burning a repudiation of " our freedom and liberty?" How is exercising a freedom disrespectful of it? Isn't exercising a freedom a celebration of it? Isn't opposing the flag-burner the ultimate anti-American act -- a disparagement of the liberty the flag represents?

The fact that so many Americans oppose flag-burning illustrates their love of symbol over substance.
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Seyorni, Because it is a symbol of our liberty and freedom, because hundreds of thousands of our troops have died protecting it and by burning the flag you disrespect their sacrifice, because in exercising this personal "celebration" you rain on the majority's celebration of freedom and liberty.

If one decides to exercise this "celebration" they should count the cost first...

Sabio
 
Ori

Ori

Angel slayer
Seyorni said:
The fact that so many Americans oppose flag-burning illustrates their love of symbol over substance.
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That could be quite a good subject to tackle within itslef.
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
Maize said:

They're not defending the thing they find distasteful, they are defending a person's freedom to do it.
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This is purely focusing on one person's rights being more important than those of all Americans (corporately). Wrong!

Sabio
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Sabio said:
Seyorni, Because it is a symbol of our liberty and freedom, because hundreds of thousands of our troops have died protecting it and by
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I don't agree. Hundreds of thousands of troops died protecting freedom, not a flag.
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Sabio said:
This is purely focusing on one person's rights being more important than those of all Americans (corporately). Wrong!

Sabio
Click to expand...

What rights of all Amercians are infringed upon when someone exercises their freedom of speech and burns a flag?
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
Maize said:
I don't agree. Hundreds of thousands of troops died protecting freedom, not a flag.
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The flag is "symbolic" of the freedom that was sacrificed for. Burning that flag is symbolic of ones lack of repsect for that sacrifice.

Sabio
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
Maize said:

What rights of all Amercians are infringed upon when someone exercises their freedom of speech and burns a flag?
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The right to liberty and freedom and those symbols which represent same...

Sabio
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
Maize said:

What rights of all Amercians are infringed upon when someone exercises their freedom of speech and burns a flag?
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Ever said the pledge of Allegiance Maize?


flag2.gif

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
 
Ori

Ori

Angel slayer
Sabio said:
Ever said the pledge of Allegiance Maize?


flag2.gif

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
Click to expand...

Liberty and justice for those who can afford it :rolleyes: .
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Sabio said:
The flag is "symbolic" of the freedom that was sacrificed for. Burning that flag is symbolic of ones lack of repsect for that sacrifice.

Sabio
Click to expand...

There are many things that may show a lack of respect of something else. There are many things that some people don't like or find offensive. But we don't ban them because we value the freedom that men and women actually died defending. As long as you are not physically hurting someone else (with a few exceptions) this is a country where you are allowed to do as you please. That means that someone who feels moved to burn flag is free to do so. That means that I have put up with seeing Confederate flags in public (even though they make me sick to my stomach). That means that equal rights for gays and lesbians will happen. That means that you and everyone else can practice whatever religion you choose. It called freedom my friend, and not just freedom for things you like, but everyone's freedom.

Just for the record, I think flag burning on the whole is a very silly thing to do.
 
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