What does the Bible say about Slavery?

Skwim said:

Thanks for the link. I Looked it over. Here are a few its statements and my comments.









But isn't it interesting that they can't agree on interpretation, which is why we have so many versions of the Bible. Obviously "These are experts of the highest order," are not "working together to check and recheck each others' work." They are, in fact, snubbing their noses at each other and proceeding with their own interpretations. But your hyperbole aside, your remark does point up the fact that those who now pen the various versions of the Bible are not writing for the ancients, but for today's reader. Therefore the words they use are done so with their common meanings in mind, not those necessarily held by people back in biblical times. So when words like "slave" and "servant" are used they are done so to convey their current meanings.

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Your hyperbole aside, I see a lot of truth in what you are saying (especially since I said it first ) and agree that the reader as well as the translators can easily slide into the lazy habit of overlaying the ancient text with contemporary meanings that skewer the accuracy.

That's why whenever I am seriously studying a biblical subject, I keep a good concordance at my fingertips, and also do a lot of cross referencing.

Here Wallace supports my contention that the correct interpretation of of dou'lo" in Eph and 1 Timothy is "slave," and not "servant," one who could freely leave his employer.

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Oh, so you are only addressing the word "dou'lo" as used in those two passages. I did not limit my word study to those two passages. I have stated several times that SEVEN Greek words are used in the NT but are translated into the English word "slave." These OTHER six words (excluding dou'lo) mean a wide variety of things - indentured servant, man servant, beloved house boy, etc.

Alrighty then.

"Well educated"? I seriously doubt that. Why would one need a well-educated slave? Some may have had advanced education, but it stretches the imagination to believe it rose to the level that "They were often well-educated." This smacks of self-serving apologetics, and certainly waves a cautionary flag for what follows.

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If a slave was from a conquered country or region, they could very well be well educated. Also, servants in the Roman empire often were trained in specialties to better serve their master's household.

And obviously the writer here lacked the sources to determine such a thing, so he guesses at it, using "seem." One has to ask, on what basis does it "seem" to be the case?

Interestingly, Wallace does not address Jesus' comments in Luke. Hmmm!

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Just a note - I didn't post the link claiming to agree with the whole content. I just thought it had a lot of interesting and fairly well researched material in it, on an interesting topic.

Kathryn said:

Your hyperbole aside, I see a lot of truth in what you are saying (especially since I said it first ) and agree that the reader as well as the translators can easily slide into the lazy habit of overlaying the ancient text with contemporary meanings that skewer the accuracy.

That's why whenever I am seriously studying a biblical subject, I keep a good concordance at my fingertips, and also do a lot of cross referencing.

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oh i see,
in order to study the "word of god" one has to have a concordance and do their own cross referencing with other material that was subjected to interpretation...will all this cross referencing ever end?
why must "the word of god" be so convoluted? salvation isn't for the simple minded is seems, even though jc said to be "saved" you must be child like, or was that a misinterpretation as well? i guess selling everything doesn't apply to the modern christian either, there must have been some sort of misunderstanding...

waitasec said:

oh i see,
in order to study the "word of god" one has to have a concordance and do their own cross referencing with other material that was subjected to interpretation...will all this cross referencing ever end?
why must "the word of god" be so convoluted? salvation isn't for the simple minded is seems, even though jc said to be "saved" you must be child like, or was that a misinterpretation as well? i guess selling everything doesn't apply to the modern christian either, there must have been some sort of misunderstanding...

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By cross referencing, I mean cross referencing other verses and passages which discuss the same principles or use the same words in the original language.

And no, I didn't say that in order to study the Word of God one HAS to have a concordance. However, these tools are so easy to tap into online, and so easy to use, why NOT use them to gain more insight into a particular topic or word?

I've got a novel idea for you. How 'bout picking up the bible - any version will do - and just start by reading the four Gospels and Acts? It's a good story, interesting characters, and a lot of action as well. Pretty easy to understand too.

Not sure what you're talking about when you say "selling." Do you mean selling ANYTHING or making a profit by exploiting others in the name of Christ? The two are not one and the same.

Kathryn said:

Oh, so you are only addressing the word "dou'lo" as used in those two passages. I did not limit my word study to those two passages. I have stated several times that SEVEN Greek words are used in the NT but are translated into the English word "slave." These OTHER six words (excluding dou'lo) mean a wide variety of things - indentured servant, man servant, beloved house boy, etc.

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For fun---nothing else to do at the moment other than dumb TV shows---I looked up the use of "slave" and "slaves" in the New Testament. I found seven terms (four that are variations on "doulos") that were translated into, or used in relation to "slave" and "slaves".

1. doulos:2. douleuō:3. douleia:4. doulagōgeō:5. katadouloō to bring into bondage, enslave

6. paidiskē 7. andrapodistēsSo, unless you have a different list of seven words, aside from "paidiskē," all the others deal with slavery or at least list slavery as their primary definition.




Mat 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave-
doulos

Mar 10:44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all.
doulos


Jhn 8:33 They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"
douleuō

Jhn 8:34 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
doulos

Jhn 8:35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
doulos


Act 7:7 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves,' God said, 'and afterward they will come out of that country and worship me in this place.'
douleuō

Act 7:9 "Because the patriarchs were jealous of Joseph, they sold him as a slave into Egypt. But God was with him
doulos

Act 16:16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.
paidiskē


Rom 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, [fn] that we should no longer be slaves to sin-
douleuō

Rom 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey-whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
doulos

Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.
doulos

Rom 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
doulos

Rom 6:20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.
doulos

Rom 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.
doulos

Rom 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
douleia


1Cr 7:21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you-although if you can gain your freedom, do so.
doulos

1Cr 7:22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave.
doulos

1Cr 7:23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.
doulos

1Cr 9:19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
doulos

1Cr 9:27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
doulagōgeō

1Cr 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free-and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
doulos


Gal 2:4 This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.
katadouloō

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
doulos

Gal 4:1 What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate.
doulos

Gal 4:7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.
doulos

Gal 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.
douleuō

Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
paidiskē

Gal 4:23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
paidiskē

Gal 4:24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.
douleia

Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."
paidiskē

Gal 4:31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
paidiskē


Eph 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
doulos

Eph 6:6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
doulos

Eph 6:8 because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
doulos


Col 3:11 Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
doulos

Col 3:22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.
doulos

Col 4:1 Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
doulos



1Ti 1:10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
andrapodistēs


Tts 2:9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them,
doulos


Phm 1:16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord.
doulos


2Pe 2:19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity-for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
doulos


Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.
doulos

Rev 13:16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
doulos

Rev 19:18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."
doulos

(Source: Strongs)

Kathryn said:

By cross referencing, I mean cross referencing other verses and passages which discuss the same principles or use the same words in the original language.

And no, I didn't say that in order to study the Word of God one HAS to have a concordance. However, these tools are so easy to tap into online, and so easy to use, why NOT use them to gain more insight into a particular topic or word?

I've got a novel idea for you. How 'bout picking up the bible - any version will do - and just start by reading the four Gospels and Acts? It's a good story, interesting characters, and a lot of action as well. Pretty easy to understand too.

Not sure what you're talking about when you say "selling." Do you mean selling ANYTHING or making a profit by exploiting others in the name of Christ? The two are not one and the same.

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the context in which this passage is found is being ready for the end times.

the summation of luke chapter 12 is...
don’t worry about your life, what you eat or wear, consider the lilies, live by faith god knows what your needs are, SELL YOUR POSSESSIONS AND GIVE TO THE POOR
be ready because “37It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes…38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night”
41Peter asked, Lord, are you telling this parable to US, or to EVERYONE?
jc replies “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time?”

so it seems he’s talking to the disciples to be in charge “whom the master puts in charge of his servants”

and then the passage in question...
47"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48BUT THE ONE WHO DOES NOT KNOW AND DOES THINGS DESERVING PUNISHMENT WILL BE BEATEN WITH FEW BLOWS. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”

the disciples better prepare the church or get ready for a beating, right?
Mmmm, maybe not….

what interests me here is verse 48 BUT THE ONE WHO DOES NOT KNOW AND DOES THINGS DESERVING PUNISHMENT WILL BE BEATEN WITH FEW BLOWS.
a beating nonetheless...because they’ve been entrusted no matter the degree. “From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”

then the question peter asked “are you talking to us or everyone” now seems to apply to everyone. What do you think?

so with all this in mind, when jc said to “sell your possessions and give to the poor” misinterpreted as well as the meaning of “servant” and to whom jc is giving the responsibility to be prepared for the end times?

are you going to sell your possessions and give to the poor? or was that another misinterpretation?

on a side note
slaves were a big part of the church and they looked to jc as the messiah who would come and save them from their bondage...

1 cor 8:22
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism.

the thing modern day christians seem to over look is that the end times was supposed to happen within the lifetime of the disciples...
that is why in the gospel of john, written almost 100 AD, was all about salvation by faith and not works, like selling your possessions (for example) and live as if you were not married, according to paul (a contemporary of jc)
1 cor 7:29
What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none...

i'm going to bed now...
:sleep:

Sigh.

After reviewing the research I did a few years ago, I noticed that the same greek words are used not for just the word "slave" but also "servant" and "bondman" and "bondservant" in the New Testament - pretty much interchangeably. So to clarify, I expanded the search on both words.

The Greek "doulos" is used most often - interchangeably between the two English words "slave" and "servant." This in itself is problematic, since there were so many different forms of slavery and servanthood in NT times. Many forms of servanthood were voluntary contracts between "servant" and "master" for a specific amount of time -either to pay off a debt, to gain education in a specific field, or to purchase something. But when we read the word "slave" or "servant" we impose our own 21st century understanding on those words.

Here are the Greek words used when discussing slavery and servanthood in the New Testament (and before you say that we can't use the terms "slave" and "servant" interchangeably, keep in mind that the most famous "slave" in the New Testament is Onesimus, the servant who wrotethe book of Philemon as dictated by Paul - the Greek word used for him at the end of the book of Philemon is actually NOT "slave" but instead means "domestic servant" or "one who serves in a household") :

Doulos:
Doulos - Greek Lexicon
Example of NT verses:
1 Cor 7:21 - Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

1 Co 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


Diakoneo:
Diakoneo - Greek Lexicon
Examples of NT verses:
Luke 22:26 -"But it is not this way with you, but the one who is the greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the servant.

John 12:26 -
"If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and whereI am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.

Misthotos:
Misthotos - Greek Lexicon
Example:
Mark 1:20 - Immediately He called them; and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired servants, and went away to follow Him.


Misthios:
Misthios - Greek Lexicon
Example:
Luke 15:19 -
And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

Oiketes:
Oiketes - Greek Lexicon
Examples:
Luke 16:13 - No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Acts 10:7 - And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
Romans 14:4 - Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Phm 1:25 -
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. [Written from Rome to Philemon, by Onesimus a servant.]

This verse is particularly important, because it is written by Onesimus, the famous - or infamous - "escaped slave" of Philemon. Onesimus is obviously well educated. He is, according to the Greek meaning of this word, a domestic servant, and when we read the book of Philemon, Paul implies that he is actually a bondservant, meaning that he may be in fact working off a debt - Paul offers to pay off his debt if he still owes anything. This isn't quite the 21st century idea of a "slave," though people often bring up the example of Onesimus when discussing slavery in the NT. When Paul sends him back to his "master," it is with the caveat that "if he still owes you anything, charge it to me and I ask you to release him." If Onesimus was under a contractual agreement to work in order to pay off a debt, then his running away would not be ethical to Paul, who would expect him to honor his obligations - which is most likely why he sent him back to Philemon - while offering to pay anything that Onesimus still owed.




Paidiske:
Paidiske - Greek Lexicon
Examples:
Luke 12:45 - But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Gal 4:22 - For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Pais:
Pais - Greek Lexicon
Luke 7:7 -Wherefore neither thoughtI myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.
Matt 8:13 - And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

(By the way, this same word that is used to describe servants, is also used to describe Jesus Christ as the Son of God. This is the word that means "beloved house servant" which I was discussing. All of the passages that use this word describe a master/servant relationship which is very clearly full of compassion, love, and tenderness. We may not be able to really grasp and understand that scenario from our perspective, but it was a common one in that era.)

Sundoulos:
Sundoulos - Greek Lexicon
Matt 18:31 - "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
Col 1:7 - just as you learned it from Epaphras, our beloved fellow bond-servant, who is a faithful servant of Christ on our behalf,
(interesting - same word, used in one verse as "slave" and in another verse as "bondservant." These are actually two very different states of being and when we read these two verses, we see these as two different meanings - but they are both the same Greek word.)

Huperetes:
Huperetes - Greek Lexicon
Example: Matthew 26:58
But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end.


All these words are used in the New Testament to describe various forms of slavery and servitude.

Kathryn said:

Sigh.

(By the way, this same word that is used to describe servants, is also used to describe Jesus Christ as the Son of God. This is the word that means "beloved house servant" which I was discussing. All of the passages that use this word describe a master/servant relationship which is very clearly full of compassion, love, and tenderness. We may not be able to really grasp and understand that scenario from our perspective, but it was a common one in that era.)

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what about matthew 20:25-28 "25Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."


katakyrieuō
to bring under one's power, to subject one's self, to subdue, master
to hold in subjection, to be master of, exercise lordship over

doulos

a slave, bondman, man of servile condition
a slave
metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ in extending and advancing his cause among men
devoted to another to the disregard of one's own interests
a servant, attendant

a servant that gives their life in the line of duty...
now i can understand it if this servant was a police officer or a firefighter but i don't think this is what jc was talking about.
seems that dying (as a result of being murdered by your master) on the job as a servant was a common place

sure there were masters that treated their servants with dignity
how else would you try to entice people into believing in a god that was
merciful?
but in many instances this is clearly not the case

Kathryn said:

All these words are used in the New Testament to describe various forms of slavery and servitude.

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look the description of how these servants were treated says they were tortured, raped, sold, murdered.
and jc NEVER objected to this type of treatment. jc condoned it because it was an accepted way of life. you had servants that were children, children were bought and sold...
jc was a product of the time and yet he was the son of god who said NOTHING against one person having dominion over the other...?
don't you find that odd?

Jesus said repeatedly to treat others as you want to be treated. In fact, that is the greatest commandment. If you don't want to be sold, murdered, raped, whatever, don't do it to others.

Jesus' approach to nearly all current topics of the day was conceptual rather than legalistic. The pharisees were always trying to get him to engage in legalistic, detailed discussions about very specific issues and laws. He consistently took them back to the SPIRIT of the law, rather than the LETTER of the law. He refused to get bogged down in diatribes about specific circumstances, and instead taught his followers to boil things down to principle.

His ultimate principle was "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." In fact, when pressed to boil down his message - this was it in a nutshell.

Kathryn said:

Jesus said repeatedly to treat others as you want to be treated. In fact, that is the greatest commandment. If you don't want to be sold, murdered, raped, whatever, don't do it to others.

Jesus' approach to nearly all current topics of the day was conceptual rather than legalistic. The pharisees were always trying to get him to engage in legalistic, detailed discussions about very specific issues and laws. He consistently took them back to the SPIRIT of the law, rather than the LETTER of the law. He refused to get bogged down in diatribes about specific circumstances, and instead taught his followers to boil things down to principle.

His ultimate principle was "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." In fact, when pressed to boil down his message - this was it in a nutshell.

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but who was he speaking to
the masters or the slaves in all those instances the golden rule was mentioned?

waitasec said:

but who was he speaking to
the masters or the slaves in all those instances the golden rule was mentioned?

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Wow, you really need to read or re-read the Gospels. From Matthew 22:


The Greatest Commandment

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’b 38This is the first and greatest commandment.</SPAN> 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’c</SPAN> 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”</SPAN>

Jesus was addressing the actions and attitudes of ALL believers - not just masters, not just servants - everyone.

Luke 6:20Looking at his disciples, he said:
"Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
21Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you will be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now,
for you will laugh.
22Blessed are you when men hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

23"Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.
24"But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
25Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.
26Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.]"But I tell you who hear me; Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.

you think jc is talking to rich rulers of the day in verses 24-26?
sounds like a rally cry to get everyone hyped up, don't cha think?
but i tell you who hear me...
the people jc is talking to are the lowly ones in society, the ones that are slaves or cast out...
he's telling them the golden rule...he is not objecting to the fact that people have taken dominion over other people
he is NOT talking to the people that are exercising their dominion
because they were not there to hear him

I just gave you the verse where Jesus was speaking directly to the religious leaders of the day. They certainly were not slaves - they were the upper echelon of Jewish society.

Look, I'm not trying to be ugly here, but let's raise the bar a bit, please.

Kathryn said:

Wow, you really need to read or re-read the Gospels. From Matthew 22:


The Greatest Commandment

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’b 38This is the first and greatest commandment.</SPAN> 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’c</SPAN> 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”</SPAN>

Jesus was addressing the actions and attitudes of ALL believers - not just masters, not just servants - everyone.

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misthios

a neighbour
a friend
any other person, and where two are concerned, the other (thy fellow man, thy neighbour), according to the Jews, any member of the Hebrew nation and commonwealth

the plot thickens..
the definition of "neighbor" means, according to the Jews in this context, any member of the Hebrew nation and commonwealth...
you changed the meaning of the word neighbor to fit your understanding that jc was talking to everyone...jew and gentile.
clearly not the case...

waitasec said:

misthios

a neighbour
a friend
any other person, and where two are concerned, the other (thy fellow man, thy neighbour), according to the Jews, any member of the Hebrew nation and commonwealth

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Please provide your source. My source says that the word in Matthew 22:39 (love your NEIGHBOR as yourself) is:
Matthew 22:39 Bible Lexicon

plésion

Which simply means one living near you.

This same word is also used in Luke 10, which is particularly revealing as to the meaning (and by the way, this is an example of "cross referencing" in order to understand the meaning of the original language better):

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26“What is written in the Law?”</SPAN> he replied. “How do you read it?”

27He answered: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’c; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d”

28“You have answered correctly,”</SPAN> Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.

31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.</SPAN>

32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.</SPAN>

33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.</SPAN>

34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him.</SPAN>

35The next day he took out two silver coinse and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’</SPAN>

36“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
</SPAN>
37The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”


By the way, Samaritans were despised by the Jews and generally treated as second class citizens. The example of a Samaritan helping a Jew was used to shame the Jewish leadership and the Samaritan was held up as an example of excellent character that these hypcritical leaders would do well to model.

Kathryn said:

Please provide your source. My source says that the word in Matthew 22:39 (love your NEIGHBOR as yourself) is:
Matthew 22:39 Bible Lexicon

plésion

Which simply means one living near you.

This same word is also used in Luke 10, which is particularly revealing as to the meaning (and by the way, this is an example of "cross referencing" in order to understand the meaning of the original language better):

Click to expand...

you are correct it is plésion my mistake however the translation is
a friend
any other person, and where two are concerned, the other (thy fellow man, thy neighbour), according to the Jews, any member of the Hebrew nation and commonwealth
matthew 22:39 cross reference is
Leviticus 19:18 (New International Version)

18 " 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

my source is:
Search for 'neighbor' - NAS - Include Study Resources - Study Desk

again i ask,
why must the word of god be so convoluted?
if jc meant to love everyone as yourself he would have simply said so
but he used the word neighbor, a colleague an equal, someone who is on your level; socially, economically and so forth
this does not apply with the relationship a master had with their servant

Kathryn said:

plésion

Which simply means one living near you.

Click to expand...

are you implying all levels of society were living next to each other?
the poor and lowly were living next to the rich?

i think not...

Kathryn said:

Sigh.

After reviewing the research I did a few years ago, I noticed that the same greek words are used not for just the word "slave" but also "servant" and "bondman" and "bondservant" in the New Testament - pretty much interchangeably. So to clarify, I expanded the search on both words.

Click to expand...

Interesting post, although I echo your "Sigh."

I see no problem with Greek words that pretty much unequivocally translate as "servant," such as "Pais," as found inandor "Sundoulos," as found inor "diakonos," as found inor "oiket&#275;s," as found inandor "misthios," as found inor "misth&#333;tos" as found inor "diakone&#333;." as found inThese all seem to be legitimate translations of their Greek counterparts. They carry no significant connotation of slavery.

My contention is that with such a variety of words available to denote a servant, as given above, there is no good reason to translate words such as "doulos"---that have as their only, or at least primary, definition, "slave"--- as "servant." And this I believe is corroborated by the fact that it's translation in some verses in some Bible versions as "servant" are few, whereas more often the word in those verses is translated as "slave."

So I disagree with your assessment that "The Greek "doulos" is used most often - interchangeably between the two English words "slave" and "servant." While its translation as "servant" does happen, in most of the cases I've seen it only does so in a few specific versions of the Bible; moreover, most Bibles translate the term in these specific verses as "slave." And, as I pointed out in my previous post, those variations of "doulos" as well as "andrapodist&#275;s" almost invariably, if not exclusively, mean "slave" in Greek. So their use in those verses that condone slavery, in the word's contemporary meaning, are quite legitimate.

You looked up "your people," not "neighbor." Those can be two entirely different entities.

You are layering your own sociological any philosophical opinions on these definitions by the way.

We're discussing servants and slaves, right? Wouldn't they be living in the households and on the property of the master? That would place them, well - NEAR each other. In fact, virtually right on top of each other.

You're really stretching - which is why you're having such a hard time understanding the passages. Rather than accepting them for what they mean, you are trying to twist them to fit your own agenda. That's why it seems so difficult for you to understand.

Let me lay it out for you:

On several occasions Jesus told various groups and individuals that the greatest commandment at all was "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself" and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

These groups consisted of a wide array of people - common people, leaders in the community, rich, poor, middle class. His message didn't change, depending on who He was addressing.

"neighbor" means simply "one living near you." It doesn't imply class, race, creed, etc. Those are YOUR issues, not Christ's.

By the way, here's a little tidbit about the word "others" (also translated as "people" in some English translations) as in "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Matthew 7:12 --
12&#8220;In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

The word here is (get ready for this):


anthrópos

Which simply means - humans.

TREAT HUMANS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.

I rest my case.

Kathryn said:

You looked up "your people," not "neighbor." Those can be two entirely different entities.

Click to expand...

Search for 'neighbor' - NAS - Include Study Resources - Study Desk

no i didn't... i looked up neighbor
check it again