• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Inerrancy of the Bible and other Religious Texts

Melody

Well-Known Member
painted wolf said:
The problem I have with basing your faith on taking a book as the literal word for word truth, is that if anything, any small thing is somehow falce then where does your 'faith' go from there?

If part of the book is wrong, surely the rest could be as well?

What if your book is a misprint?

And especally with the bible, much of it is stated such that it is open to vastly differing opinions.... who's interpretation of the book is right?

Personally I could never place my 'faith' in a book, no matter how cleverly written.

wa:do
PW,
I don't put my faith in a book either. I put my faith in God. When I read the Bible, I see consistency and constancy of theme. The OT is an extremely brief view of God's relationship with His chosen people. I think people err when they try to live their life as Christians (followers of Christ in whatever form that takes) by trying to follow legalistic laws required of the Jews. In the OT, God gave the Jews a way to pay for their sins through legalistic laws.

In the NT, He summed up the "law" by saying:

But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 22:34-40

If you look at Jesus life and what He taught, He embodied these verses. Consistency and constancy.

Humans tend to nitpick over the unimportant things like homosexuality, women preaching, tithing. It's our nature to want things all neatly tied it in a book of rules...but that's not what the bible is and anyone using it as such is doomed to overlook Matthew 22:34-40. If we love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind *and* love our neighbors as we love ourself, we will focus on the good in a person instead of what we perceive as sin. I've come to the point where if someone asks me whether homosexuality is wrong, I will simply hand them a bible, suggest they read it and pray to God to tell them whether it's right or wrong. If they are sincere, God will speak to their heart and convict them....one way or the other. Either way....it is not my business. Any sins they may or may not have is entirely between them and God. All I'm required to do is love them...and I can't do that if I'm pointing my finger and saying "bad, bad, bad".

If we follow Matthew 22:34-40 and remember that on these "Commandments hang all the Laws and Prophets", I believe all of this arguing over translation and interpretation becomes a non-issue.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Sunstone said:
Since the bible itself does not make the claim of being inerrant, Av, on what basis do you yourself make that claim?
Since God is inerrant ... and the Bible is the Word of God ... the Bible is inerrant.
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
AV1611 said:
Since God is inerrant ... and the Bible is the Word of God ... the Bible is inerrant.
God may be inerrant, but the Bible was put together by men with their own motives. All you have to do is look at the BoM, JW bible and the Christian bible.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Melody said:
God may be inerrant, but the Bible was put together by men with their own motives. All you have to do is look at the BoM, JW bible and the Christian bible.
It's a good point, but it is sad as well.:rolleyes:
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Melody said:
God may be inerrant, but the Bible was put together by men with their own motives. All you have to do is look at the BoM, JW bible and the Christian bible.
The AV1611 Bible is the only one in existence today that God personally supervised.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
AV1611 said:
My mom told me.

Well, I could see how someone would want to believe their own mother, but you'll have to do better than that in a serious debate.

Do you have solid proof of your claim?
 

Pah

Uber all member
AV1611 claims to believe in inerrancy. I would ask him which variety of inerrancy.

http://www.christianethicstoday.com...entry Kent_034_13_.htm#Varieties of Inerrancy
Varieties of Inerrancy

I once heard Gabriel Fackre name three different types of inerrantists. David Dockery, on the other hand, has identified nine different types.[xv] They represent different views on what it means to say that the Bible is trustworthy and authoritative. Dockery has given examples of each type.[xvi]

1. Naïve inerrancy (mechanical dictation). In this view, God actually dictated the Bible to the human writers. There was "little or no involvement of the human writers in the process."[xvii] According to this view, there are passages that indicate the Spirit of God told the author precisely what to write; these "are regarded as typical of the entire Bible. The strength of this position is that it gives proper credit to God as the author of the Bible. However, it seemingly ignores style differences, as well as historical and cultural contexts."[xviii]

2. Absolute inerrancy. This position "allows for more human involvement."[xix] The Bible is accurate and true in all matters, and the writers intended to give a considerable amount of data on such matters as history, science, and geography. This view tries to avoid mechanical dictation, but it affirms instead a verbal-plenary view of inspiration instead. It tries to affirm that the Bible is the written Word of God but also to account for human authorship. Sometimes, however, this view also seems to fail to take seriously the human aspect of Scripture and its historical contexts.[xx]

3. Critical or balanced inerrancy.[xxi] The Bible is true in all that it affirms, to the degree of precision intended by the biblical author. This view does not try to harmonize every detail of Scripture. It realizes that the authors had different purposes—Matthew and Luke, for example, or the authors of Kings and Chronicles. This view uses, cautiously, critical methodologies such as form criticism and redaction criticism. This position usually regards scientific matters as phenomenal—spoken of in popular language which describes things as they appear, without overly precise or technical language. Historical matters are faithful representations of the way the events described took place. However, this was accuracy in general, not precise, terms.[xxii] This is Dockery's personal position.[xxiii]

4. Limited inerrancy.[xxiv] The Bible is inerrant in all matters of salvation and ethics. The old Baptist phrase which I grew up on was "matters of faith and practice." Divine inspiration did not raise the writers to an intellectual level above that of their contemporaries. It did not give them scientific knowledge unavailable to the people of their day. Therefore, it is possible that the Bible may contain “errors” of science or history in the sense that it expresses the common understandings of that ancient day.[xxv] The problem with this view is that it makes the human writer responsible for recent developments in scientific and historical methods. However, the point of the view is that the Bible is fully truthful and inerrant in matters for which it was given.[xxvi]

5. Qualified inerrancy. "This position is . . . similar to the one identified above, except in matters of philosophical starting points. The previous position is more closely identified with empiricism, while this one begins with a strong viewpoint of faith." It is qualified inerrancy in that “inerrancy can be maintained if we qualify it as a faith statement." We are looking through the eyes of faith. "It is possible that errors could be identified through an inductive study, but beginning with the presupposition of faith, a position of inerrancy . . . can be maintained in a 'qualified' sense." This position is obviously somewhat difficult to articulate.[xxvii]

6. Nuanced inerrancy (or focused inerrancy). This view says that “how one understands inerrancy depends on the type of biblical literature under consideration."[xxviii]

It is quite acceptable to talk about the Bible as mechanically dictated at certain points like the Ten Commandments, places where human authorship seemingly does not enter in. It is acceptable to talk about verbal inspiration in epistolary or historical literature. In matters where the human author has greater freedom for creativity such as poetry, proverbs or stories, we must allow for a dynamic inspiration. In other words, one position of inspiration . . . is not adequate to deal with the various types of literature represented in the Bible.[xxix]

This position takes seriously the human authorship of Scripture. It maintains divine inspiration throughout. However, its obvious difficulty is in correctly identifying the genre that the author uses to communicate the message.[xxx] We would identify this view with John Goldingay.

7. Functional inerrancy. This popular position "maintains that the Bible inerrantly accomplishes its purpose. It sees the purpose of scripture as one of function." We read the Bible to learn how to be rightly related to the Lord in salvation. We read it to learn how to grow in godliness.[xxxi] One scholar observed that "Jesus never turned to holy scriptures for history or geography but rather for a religious insight into the meaning of life and mission."[xxxii] If I read Augustine correctly—perhaps a big if—this was his position.[xxxiii] E. Y. Mullins, Southern Baptists' greatest theologian, could perhaps be classified under this category. He spoke of an infallibility of purpose rather than a verbal infallibility (inerrancy).[xxxiv] (Dockery, however, associates Mullins with the limited view.) This position generally refuses to relate inerrancy to matters of factuality. The Bible is inerrant in that "it is faithful in revealing God and bringing people into fellowship with him."[xxxv]

I came across this illustration, which I think will helps clarify this view:

Suppose you and I were lost in the wilderness. We have no food, and snow will be coming soon. We stumble into a cabin. While wondering what to do, we notice a faded old map on the table. It is torn and dirty, and part of it seems to be missing, but it shows a path from the cabin to a main road where we could find help. You ask, “I wonder if this map is correct? Will it lead us to safety?” We will not know until we follow it. As we follow the map, we discover that indeed it does bring us to safety and help. We know that whether it is faded or holey, it is reliable because it has led us and others to safety.

The Bible has been that kind of map for many persons for centuries. It does not have to be a perfect map to guide us in our spiritual pilgrimage.

Does one variation affect the whole? A small difference between one book and another does not change the central truth being proclaimed. To change the author of one of the biblical books, or to discover mistakes in quotations, chronology, history or the scientific view of the writer does not affect the fundamental theological truths they are addressing.[xxxvi]

8. Errant yet authoritative. Inerrancy is irrelevant. This view neither affirms nor denies a position. It rather considers the whole argument irrelevant, distracting, and concerned with theological minutia that inhibits serious biblical research. This view charges that the debate creates disunity among those who have the main things in common. The major charge against this view is that it fails to see that issues relating to the nature of the Bible and biblical authority are foundational in our faith.[xxxvii]

9. Biblical authority. This last view does not see the Bible as inerrant, nor as a revelation from God. Rather, the Bible "is a pointer to a personal encounter with God. Questions of truth or falsity are of little concern." This view assumes that the Bible contains errors because it was written by sinful humans. But "the presence of errors in no way militates against the functional purpose or authority of the Bible when God is encountered through reading it." This view obviously has been influenced by Neo-Orthodoxy. It includes an existential or encounter view of truth. It obviously recognizes the situation of the human author, but it does not recognize the divine character of the Scriptures.[xxxviii]
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
It is interesting to note that the Bible itself claims to use the 'foolishness of preaching' to confound the 'wise'. The pattern it sets up is, one preaches the good news of Christ, one hears the good news, through the working of the Holy Spirit, one believes the message and trusts Christ and is saved. If one does not feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and accept on child-like faith, the message, it is unlikely that any amount of research or reasoning will sway them. However, I still do not believe we need to 'check our brains at the door' to believe in Jesus and the Bible. There have been a great many scholars, lawyers, scientists, historians, archeologists, and doctors, etc. Who, in setting out to disprove the Bible, came to faith as a result. I am not going to try to 'prove' the Bible, I may say, though,there is a great body of evidence out there, Josh McDowell has a HUGE book called The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, which has tons of very interesting evidence, worth a read for anyone.PEACE!
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Maize said:

Well, I could see how someone would want to believe their own mother, but you'll have to do better than that in a serious debate.

Do you have solid proof of your claim?
Maize, okay I apologize for the childish remark, but I believe the AV1611 Bible to be the only Word of God in existence today. I'm too smart to let you drag me into a discussion on Textual Criticism, because I know from experience that it'll go on and on and on. So, if you're really interested in where I'm coming from (and I suspect you're not), then I'll tell you. But be advised: it ends here. I don't want silly websites, silly definitions like PAH's site on 9 varieties of inerrancy, or anything. When I say inerrant, I mean inerrant. PAH didn't hit Fade over the head with that goofy website when Fade asked if anyone believed in inerrancy, and I'm not going to let him use it on me, either.

But back to YOUR question ... here's the answer ...

The AV comes to us from the following line of Scriputre:

Autographs ... Byzantine Texts (not the Classical Greek of the "originals") ... English

With God preserving it spotless - (Psalm 12:7).

If you disagree with any of the three above, tell it someone who cares. Don't try to make ME look stupid. I can do that on my own.
 
Top