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"Let's pretend" religions?

Kilgore Trout

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I've been to a variety of religious services, and once any type of ritual kicks in, they all seem to have that "let's all pretend" vibe.
 
Noaidi

Noaidi

slow walker
Religions such as Druidry and Wicca are primarily nature-based paths which can serve to fulfill a biophilic urge humans have, so it's odd that some people regard them as 'pretend' religions.

If anything, the later religions that took the sacred out of nature and put it in the sky beyond human reach should be regarded as the pretend religions.

Any system of thought that acknowledges our animalness and our place in the world should be regarded as anything but a pretence.
 
Scarlett Wampus

Scarlett Wampus

psychonaut
Kilgore Trout said:
I've been to a variety of religious services, and once any type of ritual kicks in, they all seem to have that "let's all pretend" vibe.
Click to expand...
Well, there are two things I'd like to say about that.

Firstly, if religious ritual is to have any meaning you have to give it a chance. That might mean having to pretend that the significance & powers the ritual's symbols & gestures are meant to evoke are real. You have to suspend judgement or dis-belief while you play your role in the ritual for your creative imagination to do its part.

Secondly, ritual can and often does look like nothing more than a theatrical play. This is almost certain to happen if someone watching a ritual doesn't actively do what is mentioned above. Admittedly some people who are performing religious ritual might not feel much beyond a ceremonial duty to outwardly perform it, or instead be attempting to pretend they feel something because they're not absorbed enough, are too unfamiliar with the ritual & its meaning or are otherwise distracted from entering into "ritual-space". However, to a detached outside observer it might appear like a meaningless set of movements & gestures regardless of what is happening in the minds of those actively involved.

Ritual to the experienced & earnest practioner is very meaningful. The otherwise mundane space the ritual is taking place in can gain a kind of dream-like overlay. For instance, a simple living room could become a temple, desert or forest. Deities or other spirits can seem to be present and interacting with the proceedings in some way. Whole psycho-dramas can play out even within the confines of a completely fixed outward structure.
 
Engyo

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
I believe that there is some truth to the OP, but that it is not a general case. We see people coming to Buddhist services because "it's cool" but that particular sort of people never really seem to develop a Buddhist practice. Others actually find value in taking refuge and truly begin practicing. I would suspect this to be true of the religions the OP cites as well.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Skwim said:
In a lively discussion of religions the other day a couple of people were of the opinion that today Druidism, Wicca, Witchcraft, and the like were not honest, sincerely held religions, but part of a game of "let's pretend." An activity where the attraction wasn't the espoused core beliefs, but the novelty of it all, a novelty that necessarily was at odds with more main stream religious beliefs and practices. That were it not for this novelty, and its unconventional, abnormal?, trappings, these religions would never have reemerged in today's world.
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I'm sure there are some people for whom this is true; probably not all or even most, IMO.

And I think that if non-mainstream religions can be dismissed as something that a person does when they want to rebel or do something "novel", it's probably just as valid to dismiss mainstream religions as something that people do when they want to be part of the group, not be outcast and avoid making waves.
 
Rainbow Mage

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Klaufi_Wodensson said:
People who follow Asatru are certainly not in it for the novelty, I can tell you that. A very few may only be in it for novelty, but that's they same with almost every other religion. There are always a few in it with the "let's pretend" attitude, but for the most part, the people are serious. Asatru isn't just a religion, it's a way to live your life. So if someone was in it for novelty, they wouldn't be living the life that a follower of Asatru should be, which makes them not a follower.
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Same for Kemetic belief. It's a very serious way of life. The way of Ma'at is serious, not a game.
 
bain-druie

bain-druie

Tree-Hugger!
Regarding ritual:

"Ritual is poetry in the world of acts." --Nuinn, former Chosen Chief of the Order of Bards, Ovates & Druids.

That is EXACTLY how it feels and is to me. Some Druids don't relate to the ritual aspect or the religious part of things, and that's fine; not everyone likes poetry, either. But poetry is nonetheless of value and vitality in defining us in art, philosophy, emotion, etc. Ritual does the same, but in motions, placement, etc.
 
blackout

blackout

Violet.
Scarlett Wampus said:
Well, there are two things I'd like to say about that.

Firstly, if religious ritual is to have any meaning you have to give it a chance. That might mean having to pretend that the significance & powers the ritual's symbols & gestures are meant to evoke are real. You have to suspend judgement or dis-belief while you play your role in the ritual for your creative imagination to do its part.

Secondly, ritual can and often does look like nothing more than a theatrical play. This is almost certain to happen if someone watching a ritual doesn't actively do what is mentioned above. Admittedly some people who are performing religious ritual might not feel much beyond a ceremonial duty to outwardly perform it, or instead be attempting to pretend they feel something because they're not absorbed enough, are too unfamiliar with the ritual & its meaning or are otherwise distracted from entering into "ritual-space". However, to a detached outside observer it might appear like a meaningless set of movements & gestures regardless of what is happening in the minds of those actively involved.

Ritual to the experienced & earnest practioner is very meaningful. The otherwise mundane space the ritual is taking place in can gain a kind of dream-like overlay. For instance, a simple living room could become a temple, desert or forest. Deities or other spirits can seem to be present and interacting with the proceedings in some way. Whole psycho-dramas can play out even within the confines of a completely fixed outward structure.
Click to expand...

Besides mySelf I think you are the only person
I've ever read on the forum mention,
"The suspension of disbelief".

It really isn't necessary to "believe" anything
in order to benefit from a ritual/magic.
"Hard wired Belief" can actually have the reverse effect
of closing you off (by means of your pre'concieved ideas/beliefs),
whereas the suspension of disbelief
puts you in a temporary "State" of "wide open" being,
where you are Open to the desired effects/manifestation/s
of the intent of your ritual.
You become more malliable, looser,
more shift'able.
When your assemblage point shifts far enough,
your subjective reality,
(perspective, perception)
and your energy flow
(how you move, flow, feel )
can change drastically.
 
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