Quran Vs Bible in light of science

Islam432 said:

Yes i agree but when a non-believer who is i.e a scientist when he reads Quran he will clearly see the scientific versus exactly matches with present science

and for your second question I don't agree with that even today there are many famous muslim scientists known world wide

Click to expand...

Islam432 said:

lol, all this chat here you couldn't respond to anything logically

Click to expand...

Islam432 said:

but i have to give you credit you are really good at manipulating things

Click to expand...

Islam432 said:

Muslims are not going to scientist's actually its the opposite

Click to expand...

Islam432 said:

The list Goes on and on..

Click to expand...

YmirGF said:

Give me something logical to respond to and I shall give it my best.

Heck, I haven't even started. You are still at the "mildly amusing" stage.



{drivel snipped for brevity}

Ah yes, the usual suspects. That really must have been some conference they put on in Saudi Arabia that year. *yawn*

Do try to be serious.


Since you seem committed to this floor show, why not pick the single best argument you think you have and we can discuss it. Let's go slowly. Do bear in mind that I will most definitely bring in the original Arabic text, as well as several English translations. And yes, we will labor over those texts before even entertaining the vague hypotheses that has been ascribed to them.

Sound like fun?


For your edification, the Forer Effect is explained well enough in this link.
My guess is that you have never heard of it.
Not to worry, we can cover common fallacies as we go.

Click to expand...

darkendless said:

Then as a "scientist" why don't I?

Yes but the magnitude of Islamic discoveries and involvment in science overall has dropped considerably, don't you agree?

Click to expand...

Mestemia said:

That is because you are.
You have repeatedly shown your aptitude in the use of the Forer Effect.


You are talking about the Koran.
:slap:
Please pay attention.



Or are you perhaps attempting a diversion tactic?

Click to expand...

tumbleweed41 said:

Still no NEW and reveling science from the Qu'ran?

All right, I'll cut you a break.

How about giving us ANY current scientific knowledge that is known to be the result of Qu'ranic study.

Click to expand...

DeitySlayer said:

In light of science, both Qur'an and Bible are epic failures. In light of morality, not so bad.

Click to expand...

Islam432 said:

Here comes another Atheist , by the way i noticed most of the people who are active on these kind forums are mostly Atheist's , if they are so clear that god doesn't exists , then why bother even coming here

whenever there is a new thread you'll see all atheist pop out...its like they are desperately searching for answers , or trying to convince themselves that the illusion they live in is reality

sadly what they believe in is a merely a mirage , only fire awaits for those who disbelieve in Allah and the messenger he sent from time to time

Click to expand...

tumbleweed41 said:

So, rather than backing up your claims with actual scientific knowledge than can trace its origin back to the Qu'ran, you are going to turn this into an attack on atheists.

Pitiful....

Click to expand...

Islam432 said:

dude your a idot

*gives you pills of Schizophrenia*

Click to expand...

Islam432 said:

Seriously is it me or there are these many retard in the world...FFS

All your posts are nothing but nonsense , i dont know why i even borther replying you
you have 1000 explanations for ever question but none of them are even 1% logical ,only blah blah only based on your assumptions

Also it's not a conference in saudai Arabia you ignorant , it's a personal interview of those scientists who testified the truth of islam

and now your Forer Effect story ,one of your other ways to get away from the topic

and yes be my guest bring translators,and scientists revelent to the each field , thats what ive been shouting all along rather than just posting you b.s bring people relevant to science and trust me ive talked to many Doctors,engineers and even the PHD teacher's in my class etc

Click to expand...

ssainhu said:

why is that? stay on point and you just may have a nice conversation. so far, you're just proving them right that Muslims can't debate for crap and we resort to utter nonsense and deflect from the topic at hand.

Click to expand...

YmirGF said:

BINGO!

Might I add, that it is sincerely a great pleasure to talk to you Ssainhu. That is why I specifically asked the poster to give me their best single argument and we will slowly, laboriously, proceed from there.

Click to expand...

Islam432 said:

Why dont you use twisting words etc to prove Bible is right ( bible has scientific,mathematics,historical etc error )

Here i will point them out good luck with proving them right

1. Proverbs 6:6-8, ants have no commander, no ruler and no overseer! This is absurdly false, because ants live in colonies and ranks of rulership and authority. And they have a queen.
2. Compare this falsehood to the Holy Quran's Scientific Miracle about the ants ranks and 4 layers of communications which scientists today have recently confirmed: Ants do indeed talk to each others as the Holy Quran Stated!
3. Revelations 12:1-9, the dragon will enter heaven and wage war with the angels! It is a classic fairy tale from a magical world.
4. Matthew 27:51-53, the resurrection of the dead at crucifixion is not mentioned by three gospels, and is considered a fairy tale according to Bibles' commentaries.
5. Judges 9:7-16, trees voted for their own King. Judges 9:8 "The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them."
6. Carm.org said: "The Bible contains many different styles of writing such as poetry, narration, fiction, history, law, and prophecy and must be interpreted in context of those styles."
7. Leviticus 11:20-23, "All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you." No insect with four legs exists. Insects have six legs and six feet.
8. Leviticus 11:6 "The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you." Rabbits, are lagomorphs, not ruminants; they do not chew the cud.
9. The earth is flat, has four corners, is standing on pillars that prevent it from shaking, and is immovable. (1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6, Job 38:4, Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1, Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Daniel 4:11, Psalm 93:1-3, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, 1 Chronicles 16:30, Matthew 4:8)
10. Daniel 4:10-11 declares the earth is flat, "10 These are the visions I saw while lying in my bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. 11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth."
11. Matthew 13:31-32 "He (Jesus) told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all your seeds," The mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds. Others, such as the orchid seed, are smaller.
12. Mark 16:18 "they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." Christians so bothered by the falsehood of this verse due to the many fatalities they suffered because of it, that the Bible theologians insist on denying these verses by saying: "The most reliable early manuscript and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20." [1] [2].
    
13. John 12:24 "I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." That is scientifically false. The dead seed does not produce new seeds.
14. James 5:3 gold and silver do rust.
15. Genesis 1:16, GOD Almighty created two lamps, the sun and the moon, each giving an independent light to earth. The Hebrew says "two lamps", meaning each giving off its independent light. Visit: Genesis 1:16 Bible Lexicon.
16. Leviticus 12:2-5, a female causes double the pollution when she's born than that of a boy. The mother remains unclean for 66 days after birth of a female instead of 33 days if she gives birth to a male.
17. 1 Corinthians 2:15 The spiritual leader is above the law; he is the supreme Law! He "The spiritual man makes judgment about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment."
    
18. The problem with this verse is that it is absurd at best, because the Christian spiritual leaders of all denominations are historically notorious in getting exposed with too much scandals in corruption, stealing, misusing the donations to themselves, prostitutions, homosexuality, too much pedophilia, and even war mongering and persecutions. So how can any man of any faith, who as a human can go astray any time, be above and beyond the Law that he himself is even looked at and is treated as the Supreme Law?
19. 1 Kings 11:4 "As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods."

Click to expand...

Islam432 said:

lol, all this chat here you couldn't respond to anything logically , but i have to give you credit you are really good at manipulating things

Muslims are not going to scientist's actually its the opposite

Professor Moore also stated that:

"...Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah. The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge.

"The intensive studies of the Qur'an and Hadith in the last four years have revealed a system of classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the seventh century A.D... the descriptions in the Qur'an cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the seventh century..."

E. Marshall Johnson


"...in summary, the Qur'an describes not only the development of external form, but emphasises also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasising major events recognised by contemporary science."

"As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Qur'an. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I do today and describing things, I could not describe the things that were described...

I see no evidence to refute the concept that this individual Muhammad had to be developing this information from some place... so I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write..."

T.V.N. Persaud



"It seems to me that Muhammad was a very ordinary man, he couldn't read, didn't know how to write, in fact he was an illiterate...

We're talking about 1400 years ago, you have some illiterate person making profound statements that are amazingly accurate, of a scientific nature...

I personally can't see how this could be mere chance, there are too many accuracies and like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind reconciling that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which lead him to these statements."

Joe Leigh Simpson

... these Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of the 'writer'... It follows that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion (Islam) but in fact religion (Islam) may guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches... There exist statements in the Qur'an shown centuries later to be valid which support knowledge in the Qur'an having been derived from God." [1]

Gerald C. Goeringer
"...In a relatively few ayahs (Qur'anic verses) is contained a rather comprehensive description of human development from the time of commingling of the gametes through organogenesis. No such distinct and complete record of human development such as classification, terminology, and description existed previously. In most, if not all instances, this description antedates by many centuries the recording of the various stages of human embryonic and fetal development recorded in the traditional scientific literature." [1]

Alfred Kroner
Thinking where Muhammad came from... I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case."

"Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics 1400 years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind for instance that the earth and the heavens had the same origin, or many others of the questions that we have discussed here...

If you combine all these and you combine all these statements that are being made in the Qur'an in terms that relate to the earth and the formation of the earth and science in general, you can basically say that statements made there in many ways are true, they can now be confirmed by scientific methods, and in a way, you can say that the Qur'an is a simple science text book for the simple man. And that many of the statements made in there at that time could not be proven, but that modern scientific methods are now in a position to prove what Muhammad said 1400 years ago."

Yushidi Kusan

"I say, I am very much impressed by finding true astronomical facts in Qur'an, and for us modern astronomers have been studying very small piece of the universe. We have concentrated our efforts for understanding of very small part. Because by using telescopes, we can see only very few parts of the sky without thinking about the whole universe. So by reading Qur'an and by answering to the questions, I think I can find my future way for investigation of the universe."

Professor Armstrong
"That is a difficult question which I have been thinking about since our discussion here. I am impressed at how remarkably some of the ancient writings seem to correspond to modern and recent Astronomy. I am not a sufficient scholar of human history to project myself completely and reliably into the circumstances that 1400 years ago would have prevailed.
Certainly, I would like to leave it at that, that what we have seen is remarkable, it may or may not admit of scientific explanation, there may well have to be something beyond what we understand as ordinary human experience to account for the writings that we have seen."

William Hay

"I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scriptures of the Holy Qur'an, and I have no way of knowing where they would have come from. But I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages."

And when he was asked about the source of the Qur'an, he replied, "Well, I would think it must be the divine being."

Durja Rao

"It is difficult to imagine that this type of knowledge was existing at that time, around 1400 years back. May be some of the things they have simple idea about, but to describe those things in great detail is very difficult. So this is definitely not simple human knowledge. A normal human being cannot explain this phenomenon in that much detail. So, I thought the information must have come from a supernatural source."

Professor Siaveda

"I think it seems to me very, very mysterious, almost unbelievable. I really think if what you have said is true, the book is really a very remarkable book, I agree."

Tejatat Tejasen

"In the last three years, I became interested in the Qur'an... From my studies and what I have learned throughout this conference, I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Qur'an fourteen hundred years ago must be the truth, that can be proved by the scientific means.

Since the Prophet Muhammad could neither read nor write, Muhammad must be a messenger who relayed this truth which was revealed to him as an enlightenment by the one who is eligible creator. This creator must be God, or Allah.

I think this is the time to say La ilaha illa Allah, there is no god to worship except Allah (God), Muhammad rasoolu Allah, Muhammad is Messenger of Allah...

The most precious thing I have gained from coming to this conference is La ilaha illa Allah, and to have become Muslim."

Dr. Maurice Bucaille

"...our knowledge of these disciplines is such, that it is impossible to explain how a text produced at the time of the Qur'an could have contained ideas that have only been discovered in modern times."

"The above observation makes the hypothesis advanced by those who see Muhammad as the author of the Qur'an untenable. How could a man, from being illiterate, become the most important author, in terms of literary merits, in the whole of Arabic literature?

How could he then pronounce truths of a scientific nature that no other human-being could possibly have developed at that time, and all this without once making the slightest error in his pronouncement on the subject?"

The list Goes on and on..

Click to expand...

Demonic Kitten said:

12 whole pages and nothing has been debated. This is suppose to be in the Science vs religion section right? Which means debate should be expected. *sigh* And I was hoping to actually learn something -_-

Click to expand...

Mestemia said:

Seems to me that the problem in this thread is that the claims of the OP have been so thoroughly refuted so many times in other threads that people are just simply tired of repeating themselves ad nauseum.

Click to expand...