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Was Jesus Really Crucified

SuperNova66

SuperNova66

Member
A Debate between Dr Zakir Naik and Christian missionary Pastor Ruknuddin Henry

Was christ really crucified debate b/w Dr zaqir naik and christian missionary
YouTube - Was Christ really crucified ? ( 1 of 8 )
YouTube - Was Christ really crucified ? ( 2 of 8 )
YouTube - Was Christ really crucified ? ( 3 of 8 )
YouTube - Was Christ really crucified ? ( 4 of 8 )
YouTube - Was Christ really crucified ? ( 5 of 8 )
YouTube - Was Christ really crucified? ( 6 of 8 )
YouTube - Was Christ really crucified? ( Q & A Session - 7 of 8 )
YouTube - Was Christ really crucified? ( Q & A Session - 8 of 8 )
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
I think that the traditions regarding the crucifixion are very strong, and the denial of the resurrection is problematic for those of us who think that the Gospels contain material that was passed down orally.
 
Dunemeister

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
Echoing angellous, the crucifixion of Jesus is one of those fixed points of history. Historical scholars of the period don't question it any longer. That's left to the theologians. (!)
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Dunemeister said:
Echoing angellous, the crucifixion of Jesus is one of those fixed points of history. Historical scholars of the period don't question it any longer. That's left to the theologians. (!)
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:biglaugh:
 
no-body

no-body

Well-Known Member
Didn't they find the sign that said "king of the Jews" affixed to a crucifix and confirmed there was a Yeshua crucified by pilot? (swear I remember reading this from a credible, secular source)

Debating whether it was actually truly him or not is like debating the resurrection, no one will ever know because there is no concrete proof. It's a matter of purely faith, not facts.
 
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Misty

Well-Known Member
no-body said:
Didn't they find the sign that said "king of the Jews" affixed to a crucifix and confirmed there was a Yeshua crucified by pilot? (swear I remember reading this from a credible, secular source)

Debating whether it was actually truly him or not is like debating the resurrection, no one will ever know because there is no concrete proof. It's a matter of purely faith, not facts.
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Absolutely.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
no-body said:
Didn't they find the sign that said "king of the Jews" affixed to a crucifix and confirmed there was a Yeshua crucified by pilot? (swear I remember reading this from a credible, secular source).
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There is no evidence like this (that is credible).
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
no-body said:
Didn't they find the sign that said "king of the Jews" affixed to a crucifix and confirmed there was a Yeshua crucified by pilot? (swear I remember reading this from a credible, secular source)
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From a Google search:

Exaltation of the Holy Cross (Roodmas)
Scientific study of the relics of the True Cross show it to be made of some species of pine. The titulus crucis -- the wood on which the inscription "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" was written in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew (Matthew 27:37, Mark 15:26, Luke 23:38 and John 19:19) -- is made of an olive wood. The titulus has been scientifically dated to the 1st c. and the script is still legible (interestingly, the Latin and Greek are in reverse script), though the Hebrew is missing due to the entire thing being halved, the second half having been lost in the 6th century. It is from the Latin inscription -- "Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudeorum" that we get the abbreviation "I.N.R.I." that is found on many Crucifixes.
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A picture of it is here:

http://www.s8int.com/page40.html

And the wiki page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titulus_Crucis
 
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Dunemeister

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
SuperNova66 said:
thats a assumption , you'll have to see the debate in which Dr Zakir Naik proved from Bible and Quran that Jesus never claimed divinity :yes:
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Not in so many words. But he did and said things that only God had the right to say and do. So either he was divine in some way or the worst blasphemer ever conceived.
 
M

Misty

Well-Known Member
Dunemeister said:
Not in so many words. But he did and said things that only God had the right to say and do. So either he was divine in some way or the worst blasphemer ever conceived.
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Jesus comes over as entirely human to me, a charismatic bloke with a BIG opinion of himself.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Misty said:
Jesus comes over as entirely human to me, a charismatic bloke with a BIG opinion of himself.
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That's why we're told that he gave up his Divinity an humbled himself. That's why he didn't defend himself at his trial. That's why he touched the untouchable and gave up his precious time to children and surrounded himself with the dregs of society.
 
fallingblood

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
SuperNova66 said:
thats a assumption , you'll have to see the debate in which Dr Zakir Naik proved from Bible and Quran that Jesus never claimed divinity :yes:
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I doubt that. Some Muslims try to use the Bible to further their view point (some Christians do the same with the Quran), but the thing is, they don't agree. The Bible makes a strong case, especially in John, that Jesus was divine in some way. Even Matthew and Luke, with their birth stories, also support the idea that he was divine.

Now that is only is we take the stories as accurate. Scholars generally don't. However, there is a likely chance that some of the writers of the NT did see Jesus as divine.

What has to be remembered is that the NT was written by various writers. They did not intend to have their writings collected into the Bible. They did not all have the same motive, or even the same background. And they had different opinions. This has to be taken into consideration. One can not point out in one Gospel an idea and claim that to be true throughout the other Gospels. I don't think Dr. Zakir Naik realizes that.

As for whether or not Jesus was crucified, the evidence points to that he did. There really is no reason for that story to be made up. The first writer who records that event, Paul, as we know, was a Jew. It simply not a method of death he would invent for Jesus as it would have been embarrassing. I know the Quran may state otherwise, but in this regards, it is of very little help as it is so distant from the events.
 
Dunemeister

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
That's why we're told that he gave up his Divinity an humbled himself. That's why he didn't defend himself at his trial. That's why he touched the untouchable and gave up his precious time to children and surrounded himself with the dregs of society.
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He didn't give up his divinity. He gave up his divine privileges for a time.
 
Green Kepi

Green Kepi

Active Member
Dunemeister said:
He didn't give up his divinity. He gave up his divine privileges for a time.
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That's why He did not sin...He had a little help in that area. He did not have the same genes/DNA as normal men. That's why Joseph could not be His father...the Holy Spirit had to impregnate Mary....
 
fallingblood

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Green Kepi said:
That's why He did not sin...He had a little help in that area. He did not have the same genes/DNA as normal men. That's why Joseph could not be His father...the Holy Spirit had to impregnate Mary....
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Yet he did sin.

If you believe that Jesus was born of a miraculous birth, do you believe Augustus was too? If not, why make an exception for Jesus?
 
fallingblood

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Green Kepi said:
When...how did he sin?
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By entering into a place of worship, he sinned. The reason, if we are to believe that he was the son of God, and Joseph was not his father, then his parents were not married at the time of his conception (or ever for that matter. Thus he sinned by entering into a place of worship.

More so, his actions in the temple also was a sin.
 
Green Kepi

Green Kepi

Active Member
fallingblood said:
By entering into a place of worship, he sinned. The reason, if we are to believe that he was the son of God, and Joseph was not his father, then his parents were not married at the time of his conception (or ever for that matter. Thus he sinned by entering into a place of worship.

More so, his actions in the temple also was a sin.
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Joseph was His stepfather...true they were not married at the conception...but tell me...how did He sin by worshiping and entering the Temple? Please explain?
 
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