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Exact Young Earth Age?

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
painted wolf said:
hang on I'm still waiting for answers to my questions back on page 7!!:sarcastic

and from page 9:

wa:do
Sorry, Wolf, didn't mean to ignore you.

I really can't answer why these animals aren't all together in one big group, other than to say they branched out into their own ecological niches. I'm not a zoologist.

As for your people having a 10,000-year-old history, that would predate even Adam and Eve.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Ceridwen018 said:
No, thats not what I mean. These things all deal with historical archeology and the like, which is a science, but its not the type of science I meant.
May I ask, Ceridwen, why, if you guys are so adamant that science contradicts the Bible, and the Bible is myth, etc., you guys are here in this religious section? If this is the Religious Education section, I'd hate to see the others.
I'm not trying to be funny - I just though I'd help some people understand the universe a little better by understanding the Bible better.
Perhaps I'm the odd-man-out, and I should vacate so as not to incite a riot here or insult anyone's intelligence?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
ok, having done a bit of adding... using the bible and the secular histories of various cultures, this is what I was able to come up with. :D

adding up the patriarchs till Noah begats his kids gives you 3026 years. Now this time MUST happin before the story of the Tower of Babylon wich must happin before the arrival of Egypt and other 'confused languages'.
add a year for his time on the ark. 3027
he lived 350 years after the flood 3377
now they don't give a time ammount for how long it took from Noahs death to the building of the tower of Babel.... but it must have been a good ammount of time for a handful of people on a boat to make a major civilization. oh wait... it was done by Noahs grandkids...
now Egyption History is traced back to 3,400 bc. and goes untill 30bc.
from there we have nearly another 2000 years...

doesnt' add up to 6000 very well does it.
almost 9000 years...

wa:do
 

panjan4

New Member
After reading the opening words of Genesis it tell us: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) So, do these words of Genesis say that this happened about ten thousand years ago? No, I can't see no time period. “The beginning” could therefore have been billions of years ago.

However, right at “the beginning,” the Bible puts an intelligent being, the Creator, in control of the creative work. I feel many scientists are uncomfortable with this idea, it harmonizes with the conclusions of astronomers that the universe did have a beginning, that it is very well ordered, and that it is governed by definite laws. An orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind. While science has explained many of these laws to us, Genesis alone introduces us to the Lawgiver.

The account in Genesis then goes on to outline the famous six “days” of creation. These days, though, were not the time during which the material of the earth and the universe was created. That had already happened “in the beginning.” The six days of creation were, rather, the periods of time during which the primordial, inhospitable earth was slowly made fit for habitation.

I wondered, was each one of those six days a literal 24-hour day then? That is not what Genesis says. The word “day” in the Hebrew language (the language in which Genesis was written) can mean long periods of time, even thousands of years. (Psalm 90:4; Genesis 2:4.) For example, I feel “the seventh day” in which we now live is thousands of years long. (Genesis 2:2, 3) Hence, the evidence shows that the entire period of six days should be viewed as tens of thousands of years long.
 

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
However, right at “the beginning,” the Bible puts an intelligent being, the Creator, in control of the creative work. I feel many scientists are uncomfortable with this idea, it harmonizes with the conclusions of astronomers that the universe did have a beginning, that it is very well ordered, and that it is governed by definite laws.
A few problems here. First of all, astronomers do not claim that the universe is "well ordered", in fact, the opposite is true. A closed system, such as the human body, can seem ordered, but the universe as a whole is moving more towards disorder with every release of energy.

Second of all, a "creator" does not automatically insinuate definate laws, or any of the other things you mentioned. You are attributing human characteristics to your god.

Thirdly, the idea of an Intelligent Designer does not make scientists "uncomfortable". Creationists love to put a little spin on their arguments by saying that scientists reject the idea of a god because it makes them "uncomfortable", when the reality is that scientists reject god because there is no evidence, and the job of a scientist, unfortunately, is to strictly deal with evidence.

An orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind.
How do you know that?

Do you have evidence to support this outlandish claim of yours or can you simply not fathom the opposite, so you assume it must not be so?
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Ceridwen018 said:
That's what I thought.


Honey, the Bible doesn't state ANY scientific facts!

Ok, well here are a few:

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth above the CIRCLE of the earth. (also means sphere in Hebrew)
Job 26:7He stretcheth out the north over an empty place, and hangeth the earth on nothing. (you know there are fewer stars directy north of earth, and you know the earth hangs on nothing)
Genesis 15:5...Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them, and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.(stars can't be counted-ppl used to number them until they got better and better telescopes)
Leviticus 17:11For the life of the flesh is in the blood. (poor George Washington should have told his blood-letting doctors that verse!)
Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath; for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall WAX OLD LIKE A GARMENT...(1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics right there)
Not to mention, ppl didnt know about germs til recently, but God told the Jews to cover their food and water, wash after touching a sick or dead person, to bury their excrement outside the camp, to wash their hands in RUNNING water, to quarantine the sick (solved the black plague, a doctor read the bible), and sooooooo much more, I have not the time to list. PEACE!
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
panjan4 said:
After reading the opening words of Genesis it tell us: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) So, do these words of Genesis say that this happened about ten thousand years ago? No, I can't see no time period. “The beginning” could therefore have been billions of years ago.

However, right at “the beginning,” the Bible puts an intelligent being, the Creator, in control of the creative work. I feel many scientists are uncomfortable with this idea, it harmonizes with the conclusions of astronomers that the universe did have a beginning, that it is very well ordered, and that it is governed by definite laws. An orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind. While science has explained many of these laws to us, Genesis alone introduces us to the Lawgiver.

The account in Genesis then goes on to outline the famous six “days” of creation. These days, though, were not the time during which the material of the earth and the universe was created. That had already happened “in the beginning.” The six days of creation were, rather, the periods of time during which the primordial, inhospitable earth was slowly made fit for habitation.

I wondered, was each one of those six days a literal 24-hour day then? That is not what Genesis says. The word “day” in the Hebrew language (the language in which Genesis was written) can mean long periods of time, even thousands of years. (Psalm 90:4; Genesis 2:4.) For example, I feel “the seventh day” in which we now live is thousands of years long. (Genesis 2:2, 3) Hence, the evidence shows that the entire period of six days should be viewed as tens of thousands of years long.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Then he did the rest of creation, and after each verse, it says, "and the evening and the morning were the (second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth) day.

So he called a day a day as in 24 hours. Pretty straight forward to me. He could have done it in a split second, but later it says he did it for us for a pattern to follow as he rested on the seventh day.
 

panjan4

New Member
Ceridwen018 said:
A few problems here. First of all, astronomers do not claim that the universe is "well ordered", in fact, the opposite is true. A closed system, such as the human body, can seem ordered, but the universe as a whole is moving more towards disorder with every release of energy.

Second of all, a "creator" does not automatically insinuate definate laws, or any of the other things you mentioned. You are attributing human characteristics to your god.

Thirdly, the idea of an Intelligent Designer does not make scientists "uncomfortable". Creationists love to put a little spin on their arguments by saying that scientists reject the idea of a god because it makes them "uncomfortable", when the reality is that scientists reject god because there is no evidence, and the job of a scientist, unfortunately, is to strictly deal with evidence.


How do you know that?

Do you have evidence to support this outlandish claim of yours or can you simply not fathom the opposite, so you assume it must not be so?
Thanks for your intuitve reply.

Firstly, I feel astronomers are the experts and they continue to learn the precise characteristics & physics of all they have discovered or seen, they know well the order of the stars and planet of just this solar system, which many would agree is well ordered, if the Sun was a fraction closer to the earth it could be dangerous, I don't think the universe can be compared with the human body, I do feel that God who created the universe, also created the human body which is also well ordered. Since the universe was created, it has required controlling and order, God has done this.

Secondly, The creator does have definite laws in place, what about the law of gravity? It is a strong source of energy and without being controlled or organized THEN this universe would have been in disorder long before now. I would also never attribute human characteristics to God, I know from his word the bible that he is the most highest and superior being in the universe and have the utmost respect and reverential fear for him.

Thirdly, I do feel that for scientists to accept Evolution is easier than to admit that Creation is the true source of all living things, what evidence have scientists found that completely proves Evolution as fact and proven.

And finally m when I said that an orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind, I know this because everything that is built, created, designed, has to have a creator/maker, things do not evolve then govern themselves and apply laws to enable them to exist.
 

Ulver

Active Member
The first thing I want to say is that, for the most part, humanity is stupid. Just plain old dumb. As hard in the head as a rock. History and the present prove this well enough. People generally just have no smarts about them.

AV1611 said:
God didn't put disosaur fossils in the Earth. They were deposited there when the dinosaurs died in (and after) the Flood.

And on the day He made it, it had no fossils, no bones, no anything dead in it.

How do you explain Oil, Gas and Coal? Things that we know take forever to make (apparently longer then you say the earth has existed). Science has a good way to explain it, but you suggest we should forget that and just believe they were put there out of nothing before them?

Joeboonda said:
There are theories about the time it takes light to reach earth from stars that are pretty logical and still support a young earth. Isaiah40:22 takes care of the light from stars, and the flat earth idea (why people thot the earth was flat is beyond me, lol)

Isaiah 40:22 "It is he (GOd) that sitteth upon the CIRCLE ( in Hebrew also can mean sphere) of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that STRETCHET out the heavens as a curtain, and SPREADETH them out as a tent to dwell in;"

uhm, I don't think I'm connecting to what your trying to get at. Just confused at how that seems logical.

AV1611 said:
Where the Bible and Science disagree, Science is wrong.
That may be an aspect of your individual faith, but it is not an objective fact for everyone.

AV1611 said:
Since God is the creator of science, the Two are in perfect harmony
I agree with that, but I disagree with your views on science.

Av1611 said:
Again, if radiometric dating shows 2 million years, that's fine. It DOES NOT contradict the Bible. It's only showing age, not existence.

When something ages I would imagine that it existed during that time. The prepostion that ex nihilo creation is true would mean that God would work that within science if science is in harmony with God. Therefor why would creation by ex nihilio only be exhibited a few thousand years ago (accourding to your time-table) and not seen in practice now?

np: YOB- Doom #2
 

Ulver

Active Member
Ceridwen018
That's the beauty of it. They never claim to know all there is to know, like religion, and they are able to change with new discoveries...unlike religion which just denies them.

And true religion cannot observe anything.

Please do not bash all religion and the merit of religion just because your frustrated with some fundamentalist talk. We all have different beliefs and calling all religion unadaptable and "stuck in the mud" is insulting to far more then just the fundamentalists.

For example of how that statement is wrong... many Buddhists have said that if the metaphysics of their faith were proven wrong, then they would adapt and change because it still wouldn't detract from the main teaching in their faith.

AV1611 said:
The Bible is a closed system, immune to outside criticism. It is more than capable of defending itself.

If that were the case then christianity would only be under one church, but it's not. That is because there is criticism and difference of views/opinions on the bible and Jesus. Hence why there are hundreds of different types of churches.

AV1611 said:
You mean the Bible mention dinosaurs co-existing with man, when scientists swore they didn't, until just recently when it WAS found

like someone else said.... Source please?!

Panjan4 said:
what evidence have scientists found that completely proves Evolution as fact and proven

Science doesn't say Evolution is absolute because that wouldn't be science. Science is based on observation. Which means laws of science change as the results of observations change. This is done carefully with scrutiny though, because in some cases of observation there are exceptions. That's why any rule is usually only held as true when most in the scientific community can agree that the majority of the data is so. Yet any rule of science can change. The laws science holds as true can always change if we learn more by advance of technology or by pure chance.

np: Opeth- When
 

Harvster

Member
Just a quick question that i would like to ask. How old was Adam & Eve when they fell into sin?, that is between the end of Genisis 2 and the begining of Genisis 3.
 

Fade

The Great Master Bates
AV1611 said:
Fade, rather than argue this ad infinitum, would it be too much to ask you to check it out for yourself. Just get a calculator and add them up. They add up to just over 6000 years. What's so hard about that? Or better yet, find a Bible or book that has the figures already added up for you. No muss - no fuss.
That'll tell you how long the Universe (not just the Earth) has been in existence. Now if you want to know how old these rocks and such are, well, the Bible is silent on that; but if you're that curious, get a geology book and find out. Assuming they're all in agreement (which they aren't).
Okay lets assume for a moment that you are correct and that the bible contains a complete chronological list of dates that prove the world is 6000 years old(or has been in existence for that length of time). If you know this for a fact you should be able to tell me exactly when the great flood occured. If you would be so kind as to inform me so I can share the revelation with the scientific community it would be most appreciated.

As an aside you are still using the bible as evidence for the validity of the bible. Which as you rightly stated is a circular argument. until you can provide some supporting evidence for what you seem to think the bible says then your argument/belief is still nothing more than hot air.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Fade said:
If you know this for a fact you should be able to tell me exactly when the great flood occured. If you would be so kind as to inform me so I can share the revelation with the scientific community it would be most appreciated.
c 2349 bc
 

Fade

The Great Master Bates
AV1611 said:
c 2349 bc
Hmm, that is very interesting. I guess somebody forgot to tell the Egyptions and Chinese that they should have been busy drowning at that time.

Can you provide any evidence for this date that isn't pulled from the bible?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Fade said:
Hmm, that is very interesting. I guess somebody forgot to tell the Egyptions and Chinese that they should have been busy drowning at that time.

Can you provide any evidence for this date that isn't pulled from the bible?
No thanks, Fade. I'm through with your sarcasm and the way you ask me questions. If you would care to exhibit a modicum of respect that I'm entitled to, I may do so.

I said the other day that God embedded age into His creation, and got slaughtered with question after question until I left the website in frustration. That won't happen again.

So the next time I make a comment on THIS website, and I even detect a hint of sarcasm, I'll exercise my right to ignore.

I tried being very nice to everyone, and I don't plan to change that.

You're still my friend, though, and I welcome your input.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Perhaps I can be less sarcastic - how is it, AV1611, that the Egyptians and Chinese lived through a great flood without recording it but continuing a narrative of their civilization.
 

Fade

The Great Master Bates
AV1611 said:
c 2349 bc
Just in case you don't know http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/EGYPT/OLD.HTM

The old Kingdom is one of the most important periods in Egyption history and there ain't no mention of a flood. Not to mention it's impossible for them to have existed as a civilization if they were wiped out by said flood.

Do you not see that what you believe is clearly untrue?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
AV1611 said:
Fade said:
Can you provide any evidence for this date that isn't pulled from the bible?
No thanks, Fade. I'm through with your sarcasm and the way you ask me questions.
In other words, who make claims in a debate forum and then get upset when asked to substantiate those claims. Does that not seem both irresponsible and (forgive me) a bit childish?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Pah said:
Perhaps I can be less sarcastic - how is it, AV1611, that the Egyptians and Chinese lived through a great flood without recording it but continuing a narrative of their civilization.
I don't know.
 
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