• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What is spirit, and where does it come from?

walmul

Member
Most religions talk about spirit, Atheists states we live then we die, period. Religious people say we have spirit and after death, spirit moves on, either to hell or heaven, or purgatory etc.

All people including the hardcore atheists wish and want to live on forever; this is a fact, we are all very scared to stop existing, to just vanish "poof" gone, is indeed a scary idea.

This spirit thing cannot be seen, touched or felt by most, is it possible to explain it in an acceptable way to those who are sceptic or unbelieving, and does it actually exist? The one in whose name prayers are said by millions daily is probably the biggest advertiser of this phenomena, how can we get to grips with it, not a single person have ever come back to tell us about the "other side"!!

Any thoughts?

walmul.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Spirit is a type of energy. There's Spiritual energy and Material energy. Material energy is derived from Spiritual energy. Spirit is characterised by eternity, knowledge and bliss (love/unity). Matter is characterised by its temporary and illusive nature as well as ignorance.

(I am speaking from a particular Hindu perspective)
 

walmul

Member
Spirit is a type of energy. There's Spiritual energy and Material energy. Material energy is derived from Spiritual energy. Spirit is characterised by eternity, knowledge and bliss (love/unity). Matter is characterised by its temporary and illusive nature as well as ignorance.

(I am speaking from a particular Hindu perspective)

From a hindu perspective, how did spirit originate, or how did spirit enter the physical, and why?

walmul.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
From a hindu perspective, how did spirit originate, or how did spirit enter the physical, and why?

walmul.

Spirit is eternal. Even material energy can never be created or destroyed. (Like I said, Matter is derived from Spirit).
I don't know the 'how' in this question. Can the derivative be perceived in the derived? Apparently.
I don't think 'why' has much to do with anything. Why does anything exist? All I know is that it does.
 

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
I think we're a bit like a window through which the world is looking at itself. In the world I see no beginning and no end - just flow.
I imagine whatever I am is the same - flow.
 

Wotan

Active Member
"All people including the hardcore atheists wish and want to live on forever; this is a fact, we are all very scared to stop existing, to just vanish "poof" gone, is indeed a scary idea."

BS. Self serving BS. The idea of an afterlife is a control mechanism created by believes in an attempt to impose their morality on a dis-interested world. And it has to be carefully taught. As the existence of a massive "religious education" establishment shows.


“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.”
—Marcus Aurelius Antoninus
 

walmul

Member
Ok, we have a statement which say; everything exist and the "why" is not that important.
We have another statement saying; we are the world looking at itself! From this statement it could seem that everything is simply looked at from different angles, and stored! The question then arise; to what end?

From the first statement, "why" would end up meaningless and the reason for "life" might become mute.

From the above my thoughts turned to this question; somehow spirit decided to divide itself, and in this process gave small minute pieces of itself in order for whatever was physically created in order for that creation to actually live, taken from scripture, (nothing can live without spirit!). Thinking about that another thought sprang up; if that is the case and we cannot remember the "before", then the devided minute piece has been given without conscious recollection and it must then learn about all of creation untill it can in a manner of speach "return" to the "supplier".

Then this question manifested; Can evolution be attached to spirit, and if so, then where did my/your spirit start?

walmul.
 

walmul

Member
"All people including the hardcore atheists wish and want to live on forever; this is a fact, we are all very scared to stop existing, to just vanish "poof" gone, is indeed a scary idea."

BS. Self serving BS. The idea of an afterlife is a control mechanism created by believes in an attempt to impose their morality on a dis-interested world. And it has to be carefully taught. As the existence of a massive "religious education" establishment shows.

Hi wotan, I might misunderstand your point, look at this as a search for spirit and it's reason, religion is not counting now.

walmul.
 

Wotan

Active Member
Ok, we have a statement which say; everything exist and the "why" is not that important.
We have another statement saying; we are the world looking at itself! From this statement it could seem that everything is simply looked at from different angles, and stored! The question then arise; to what end?

From the first statement, "why" would end up meaningless and the reason for "life" might become mute.

From the above my thoughts turned to this question; somehow spirit decided to divide itself, and in this process gave small minute pieces of itself in order for whatever was physically created in order for that creation to actually live, taken from scripture, (nothing can live without spirit!). Thinking about that another thought sprang up; if that is the case and we cannot remember the "before", then the devided minute piece has been given without conscious recollection and it must then learn about all of creation untill it can in a manner of speach "return" to the "supplier".

Then this question manifested; Can evolution be attached to spirit, and if so, then where did my/your spirit start?

walmul.
You have not demonstrated this "spirit" thing exists. You haven't even defined it. You just assert it existence and then use that unsupported assertion as a basis for argument.

You don't have a respectable argument here. Just a house of cards.:facepalm:
 

walmul

Member
You have not demonstrated this "spirit" thing exists. You haven't even defined it. You just assert it existence and then use that unsupported assertion as a basis for argument.

You don't have a respectable argument here. Just a house of cards.:facepalm:

That's all we have Wotan, no proof, no touchable noticable spirit:D, let's use the house of cards and see where it leads us.;)

walmul.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Ok, we have a statement which say; everything exist and the "why" is not that important.
We have another statement saying; we are the world looking at itself! From this statement it could seem that everything is simply looked at from different angles, and stored! The question then arise; to what end?

From the first statement, "why" would end up meaningless and the reason for "life" might become mute.

From the above my thoughts turned to this question; somehow spirit decided to divide itself, and in this process gave small minute pieces of itself in order for whatever was physically created in order for that creation to actually live, taken from scripture, (nothing can live without spirit!). Thinking about that another thought sprang up; if that is the case and we cannot remember the "before", then the devided minute piece has been given without conscious recollection and it must then learn about all of creation untill it can in a manner of speach "return" to the "supplier".

Then this question manifested; Can evolution be attached to spirit, and if so, then where did my/your spirit start?

walmul.

What happens in the world of Matter is a reflection of what happens in the world of Spirit. Evolution of the physical happens in Matter, and an evolution of Consciousness occurs in Spirit.

Life itself is spirit. The Self is spirit. You asked where did your spirit start and to refer back again, spirit has the characteristic of eternity. Thus, you (the Self/Spirit/Soul) have always existed and will always continue to exist.

We cannot remember our past existence because our brain does not allow for it (thank goodness). However, the Self is on a constant evolution (as mentioned above) whereupon each lifetime acts to further growth and wisdom until it reaches a state of Enlightenment/Realisation at which point it returns to its 'supplier', as you said; God (The Source and the Whole).

*Again, the above is based on my specific Hindu beliefs*
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Our spirit comes from God. I am not going to try and prove our spirit exists, that is almost as useless as proving God exists. I believe it is our consciousness (and maybe a bit our conscience, too)
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
"All people including the hardcore atheists wish and want to live on forever; this is a fact, we are all very scared to stop existing, to just vanish "poof" gone, is indeed a scary idea."

BS. Self serving BS. The idea of an afterlife is a control mechanism created by believes in an attempt to impose their morality on a dis-interested world. And it has to be carefully taught. As the existence of a massive "religious education" establishment shows.


“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.”
—Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

Ooh, right on Marcus Aurelius. *considered changing her sig*
 

no-body

Well-Known Member
There is no individual spirit as such, it is the same as your body; all a temporary form for the one life. Thus we are all God experiencing itself. There is no birth, no death, no afterlife there is only God.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Spirit is the psychological process of identity. It comes from the integration of sensory input with forms stored in memory.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
doppelgänger;2127126 said:
Spirit is the psychological process of identity. It comes from the integration of sensory input with forms stored in memory.
... and is intimately linked with the intuitive process, emotions and feeling.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Spirit is the label applied to the vague concept of some part of us that is other than our physical selves, and continues to exist after we die. It's one of psychological coping mechanisms people employ to deal with their neuroses regarding dying.
 

walmul

Member
Some thoughts

From a very young age I have wondered about this thing called spirit or soul, or the real me. I have seen me in the flesh from outside the flesh, not once, but quite a few times, the first time I did not know about things like astral travelling or near death experience, I only learned about those things starting at age 18. When I started learning these things from books I have already experienced it. What books taught me was the theory and in books and from books I learned about the pro's and con's of playing or experimenting with supernatural phenomena which I have already experienced but could not understand.

Some of those experiences I do not wish on my greatest enemies. Some of the authors of such books know what they are talking about, which told me that other people exist who also experience so called supernatural phenomena.

I did not join cults or groups regarding these phenomena, in my opinion the guy next to me who did not experience these things are lucky, he lives a normal life free of all kinds of encumbrances, and it is not my intention to complicate anybody else’s lives.

Being a human being and living amongst other human beings I decided at the age of 18 to study life from the normal human beings perspective, simply because it would allow me to go my way in peace. I never enrolled or graduated from any institute, my investigations were done through visiting libraries and reading up on many subjects, taking notes, comparing notes with what I have learned from the bible or religious scriptures, eventually after many years I realized that the bible was only a piece of history not placed in the history books but outside of it in order to help governing the masses.

The above is only a short overview, let's get back to spirit:

We know about creationism and evolution; creationists believe that a supernatural being or God created this place we call earth and everything on it in the order we know it; (the food chain, and humans being the more intelligent and therefore the ruler of it all).

Evolution tells us from a scientific point of view that we and everything else evolved through many processes, like natural selection, mutations based on survival etc. It is a scientific theory that the first living thing was a very small single celled creature or organism which first appeared some three billion years ago.

WHAT IF; that small insignificant single cell organism which is regarded as first life were given life by spirit, (scripture, which is actually a piece of history, stated that nothing can live without spirit). And what if Evolution is right, what if you and me were first the spirit driving those small organisms, and through all those processes became mankind, take into consideration that those small organisms still exist this very day, which tells us that creation doesn’t stop, and think about the fact that we or mostly the scientists have great empathy and compassion for that very minute pieces of life, regarding them with awe and respect.

Have you ever wondered why we have empathy with our planet and all of its living particles however big or small; yes we fear most of them, but we also hold them in awe, could it be because once we were them?

We know people who love germs, insects, snakes, trees, flowers animals of all kinds, we look at them and we get the creeps, but we leave them to do it.

Why do we sometimes feel so incredible guilty when we kill a spider, or a mosquito, we even say sorry at times, some people even shed a tear?

Could it be because we somehow remember; this thought go through our minds when we kill them; (perhaps there are children who are going to die without food now, “aahh tough ****”, it was going to bite me anyway). Am I crazy? Most of us have those 'flashes', we won't however state it on a public forum, it's ok, I just did, for all of us.

Some of you live in the U.S, you know about the culture of some of the Indian tribes who thank the spirits of the animals they kill for food, do they perhaps know something we don't? And yet we call ourselves civilized!

Some of us tend to think we are god experiencing itself through many humans over and over again, but are we? We are spirit living in flesh, spirit driving this body yes, but also a fairly new spirit who when it eventually realize just how incredible life really is and finally understand it, will move on to another dimension of life, to become part of real creation! “Experience life in all it's fullness”, deciding what life forms to put on some planet somewhere in one of many galaxies in the universe; space is after all, infinite!

Being part of that “other” dimension or heaven if you wish do not make you a God, just a greenhorn learning new things, an apprentice, who in that world will be amongst the least again.

Follow up on next post.

walmul
 

walmul

Member
Before you call the guys in white coats; what I have stated here have been done two thousand years ago already, by a man called Jesus, we read about it in the bible, or “holy scriptures” but are in fact just part of history, this man Jesus told us that we can inherit that other life but only if we understand what he was talking about, and until we do, we will stay under the punishment of God, was it his exact words or was it perhaps altered a bit to fit religion?

He said this; some of this generation will still be here (on earth) when he will send his angels to fetch those who understand. It’s not making sense; right! Wrong!

Allow me to explain: If those who were present when he spoke those words will be present two thousand or ten thousand years later it means that they would have to reincarnate to still be the same people, and if the body they had back then were the only thing a human being have then his statement would be considered idiotic to say the least. (Some scholars actually think he meant this would happen while he was still here, or relate it to the book of Revelations, which were written by a man called John, presumably not the same John who wrote the book of John, the story in Revelations if studied however tends to remind one very much about the book Isaiah in the Old Testament, which could have been the actual basis for Revelations) I am transgressing now, let’s get back to spirit.

He did leave us a clue though (but we prefer to be religious!). John the Baptist was also the prophet Elijah and as that guy he killed plus minus four hundred other prophets who in his opinion were wrong, and for his own survival they were a threat. As John the Baptist he lived a “better” life and Jesus explained it to us, and in doing so explained the previous paragraph.

Not only Jesus talked about this reincarnation phenomena but in the Buddhist religion you will find the same thing, Hypnotists worldwide have written and talked about patients while under hypnosis talked about incidents which in some cases have been verified to relate to people having lived in previous life times many decades or even hundreds of years ago.

It is easy to make it off as hallucinations, but ask your selves, are all the incidents reported worldwide lies?

Think about this: If we were only flesh (in a manner of speech, a mechanical machine), and we would cut off our oxygen for ten minutes, we would be dead. Now in ten minutes we cannot start to decay, all of our organs would still be in working order and be good for a restart, some times resuscitation work after ten or fifteen minutes, even longer periods have been noted, but in most cases that person is dead, period. In many of those cases doctors declared with factual autopsy reports that there was medically no reason why those people should be dead, but they are! If we were only flesh resuscitation are supposed to work every time, but it simply does not. Many people who were resuscitated have stated that they actually saw the doctors from outside of their bodies sweating to revive them, are they all lying? Or hallucinating?

Is all of the above factual proof that spirit exist? No, in human terms definitely not, simply because most of us cannot see, feel or hear it, but does the absence of touchable proof make spirit obsolete? In some peoples minds yes, others say no; tests ran by supernatural investigators showed that “energy” which cannot be seen or heard by normal senses sometimes share our space, according to the highly sensitive equipment they use in their investigations.

Do these thoughts conclude anything? No, definitely not, millions of people have thoughts regarding this, but most is too afraid of ridicule to even mention it, don’t be, even your worst critics have them.

http://sites.google.com/site/waltermullernow/

walmul.
 
Top