When will the spending stop??

Kathryn said:

Just so you know - not all those pictures were from Tea Party events. In fact, you may take note that the first photo is of an anti-Iraq war rally, and front and center is an anti-Bush sign.

My point is that we the people should not forget that we have the right to dissent - and that sometimes dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

Washington (and just about every federal building nationwide) is full of corrupt fatcats milking the system, living off OUR backs, and enjoying a never ending stream of favors from their various special interest groups.

They either have basically forgotten that the American public truly exists (coccooned as they are in their mansions and offices and surrounded by pandering wannabees), or they think we are so stupid that we will not see through their corruption - and take action.

On the second possibility - they may be right.

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As much as I have strong distaste for the Tea Party's positions, I firmly believe in their right to advocate their beliefs. Such is free speech. What I object to, however, is some of the methods by which they are choosing to advance their position. Shouting down people in health care town halls is NOT peaceable assembly. Bringing guns to political rallies is NOT peaceable assembly. And demonizing those who are genuinely advocating for a better America, attempting to find optimal solutions to this nation's problems, and interested in the general welfare of this nation, is absurd and highly distasteful. Yet it seems that it's about all the Tea Party can do. That, and lie at just about every turn.

I say, run 'em out on a rail - the whole lot of them. The exceptions to their overall corruption are so few and far between as to be a negligible group (and pretty much powerless).

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Voting out the incumbents is a highly overrated political tactic.

Let's assume for a moment that, in the eyes of the "throw the bums out" crowd, a best-case scenario occurs: All 435 representatives are replaced, as are 33(?) senators (remember, only about a third of the Senate is up for election on any given cycle). How exactly does this guarantee that the new batch will magically improve our government overnight? How does this guarantee that they won't fall prey to the very same lobbyists, special interest groups, and political kickbacks that have arguably taken over Congress?

One thing I have learned in the last three years is to become very realistic, and not overly optimistic, about what goes on in Washington. Democratic politics is a game. It always has been. The games, the partisanship, and the results that we see are absolutely nothing new. Go rent Mr. Smith Goes to Washington and you'll see what I mean.

What I hope for in the near future is not a government that completely cleans itself up, never violates another human's rights, gets rid of all the backroom deals, and stops playing games. That's a pipe dream that many voters on both sides of the aisle, myself included for many years, have. All I want is a government that works, and works reasonably well. I want a government that isn't afraid to take a hard look at the most pressing issues in our society, and not placate to the loud minority of Tea-baggers or special interest groups, but meet the needs of as many as is reasonably possible for the least expenditure that still gets the job done. Utilitarianism, if you will.

Mercy Not Sacrifice said:

All I want is a government that works, and works reasonably well. I want a government that isn't afraid to take a hard look at the most pressing issues in our society, and not placate to the loud minority of Tea-baggers or special interest groups, but meet the needs of as many as is reasonably possible for the least expenditure that still gets the job done. Utilitarianism, if you will.

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Read this article from the New Yorker (The Empty Chamber) for a rather bleak look at how our government "works". I mean, not only are we fighting against all these "special interest groups" and their vote-buying money, but the mind-boggling waste of time due to historical procedure set in a slower age, lack of work ethic, need to raise campaign dollars, and arcane rules and traditions is bogging down the gears even more.

I don't believe that we should immediately replace all our existing politicians, of course. Besides being impractical, it's nothing more than a pipe dream.

I do believe that we should vote out the worst of the lot, rather than allowing them to continue to strut around Capitol Hill like Little Lord Fauntleroys. And we should continue to demand answers and accountability. This is one thing that I believe the Tea Party Movement has reminded us of - and more importantly, it's reminded THEM that, err, hey guys, you DO have a constituency.

Like Bill Cosby said (sort of) "We voted you into this world, we can vote you out."

Speaking of Tea Party "tactics," you DO know that you are seeing only the most extreme cases on the news, right? I've been to several Tea Party events and rallies, as well as local meetings with politicians, and I've never - NEVER - seen anyone shouted down, or seen anyone with a gun. (However, I may have missed the gun, because it IS legal for some people to carry guns, and here in Texas we're pretty used to seeing that - it's simply no big news.)

But so what if a group of CONSTITUENTS are shouting at the corrupt politician who has been living off their tax dollars for the past 12 years? I would call that a wake up call. People have the right to be angry and to let their anger be heard. This same group of middle aged people who are politically involved has been writing their Congressman, and phoning his office, and being polite and involved citizens for probably thirty years - to no avail.

It's time we got a little louder. Our elected officials are completely out of touch with their constituents - and reality.

Darkness said:

Yeah, the Vietnam Era must have been scary ****. It is not that I believe dissent is wrong, but I have a reason to worry, if the Tea Party's libertarian economic policies are realised. I have a lot of health problems, so a strong social safety-net is a plus for me.

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But consider that libertarian economics would result in lower taxes & costs for you. I understand your preference, but I think you'd fare well enuf....you seem smart & aware enuf to do well in the workforce.

Yeah, but the United States has no true left-wing movement.

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It's all relative. Compared to me, Repubs & Dems comprise a large left wing movement. We should note that both have been moving to the left for decades. It wouldn't be as much as many want, but the bi-partisan vector points that way.

With re-election rates from congressmen above 90 per cent in most cases, it wouldn't hurt to experiment. Our politicians can't really be any more entrenched than they already are. And, I am going to have you make me BBQed ribs. :yes:

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I've never made them before.....a first time for everything! Dry rub or wet sauce?

I can solve this problem with three words, "BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT"

Can you imagine Republicans voting for a tax increase to pay for a war?

Reverend Rick said:

I can solve this problem with three words, "BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT"

Can you imagine Republicans voting for a tax increase to pay for a war?

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I'd love to see a balanced budget
Because it would be hard to fudge it.
But fear the day
we'll see that they
will find a way to upwards nudge it.

Kathryn said:

I do believe that we should vote out the worst of the lot, rather than allowing them to continue to strut around Capitol Hill like Little Lord Fauntleroys. And we should continue to demand answers and accountability. This is one thing that I believe the Tea Party Movement has reminded us of - and more importantly, it's reminded THEM that, err, hey guys, you DO have a constituency.

Like Bill Cosby said (sort of) "We voted you into this world, we can vote you out."

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I just don't see the Tea Party as a rage-against-the-machine movement. They were silent when President Bush was in office, and supportive of the Republican party, so I view them as the hypocritical alternative to the Libertarian movement.

Kathryn said:

Speaking of Tea Party "tactics," you DO know that you are seeing only the most extreme cases on the news, right? I've been to several Tea Party events and rallies, as well as local meetings with politicians, and I've never - NEVER - seen anyone shouted down, or seen anyone with a gun. (However, I may have missed the gun, because it IS legal for some people to carry guns, and here in Texas we're pretty used to seeing that - it's simply no big news.)

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I have never been to one, but my Conservative friend has been to a couple and they scared him. And, he used to be a marine.

Kathryn said:

But so what if a group of CONSTITUENTS are shouting at the corrupt politician who has been living off their tax dollars for the past 12 years? I would call that a wake up call. People have the right to be angry and to let their anger be heard. This same group of middle aged people who are politically involved has been writing their Congressman, and phoning his office, and being polite and involved citizens for probably thirty years - to no avail.

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I wouldn't call accusing Congressmen of wanting to kill old people, rage against corruption.

Kathryn said:

It's time we got a little louder. Our elected officials are completely out of touch with their constituents - and reality.

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I assent.

Revoltingest said:

But consider that libertarian economics would result in lower taxes & costs for you. I understand your preference, but I think you'd fare well enuf....you seem smart & aware enuf to do well in the workforce.

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I don't know. I can't even drive because I am on around-the-clock antihistamine. Considering I haven't paid into disability insurance, I would be screwed. Plus, my family would be rich, minus all the expenses paid in medical bills.

Revoltingest said:

It's all relative. Compared to me, Repubs & Dems comprise a large left wing movement. We should note that both have been moving to the left for decades. It wouldn't be as much as many want, but the bi-partisan vector points that way.

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It's partially relative. We do have some norms in political science. And, I would argue that we have ideologically moved to the right, since the Reagan Presidency.

Revoltingest said:

I've never made them before.....a first time for everything! Dry rub or wet sauce?

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If you've never made them before, then you probably suck at cooking. How good a cook is your wife? And dry rub, for me. :yes:

angellous_evangellous said:

(Republicans refuse to take responsibility for how destructive their ideologies were under the Bush administration, who collapsed our economy through deregulation and tax cuts for corporations and destroyed our credibility by providing false information for a war that's costing us a trillion dollars.)

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Could you explain that last part please?

Mercy Not Sacrifice said:

Please explain.

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I'd much rather things stay exactly the same then see government spending fly out of control and more and more freedom gradually ripped away.

budha3 said:

When the current administration finally digs us out the ditch that Bush has dug for us.

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Obama isn't doing anything to fix it - he's making it worse

Kathryn said:

However, I may have missed the gun, because it IS legal for some people to carry guns, and here in Texas we're pretty used to seeing that - it's simply no big news.

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One of the best moments in Miss Congeniality is when Gracie tackles the guy with a gun.

Gracie Hart: He had a gun!
Kathy Morningside: Of course he had a gun! This is Texas! Everybody has a gun! My florist has a gun!

Revoltingest said:

It's all relative. Compared to me, Repubs & Dems comprise a large left wing movement.

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And compared to me, they comprise a large right-wing movement.

I believe your both right about this too. The Democratic party has a wide spectrum.

I just don't see the Tea Party as a rage-against-the-machine movement. They were silent when President Bush was in office, and supportive of the Republican party, so I view them as the hypocritical alternative to the Libertarian movement.

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The Tea Party movement wasn't AROUND in any organized form when Bush was in office. That doesn't mean the people were silent. You really don't know the makeup of the Tea Party members. There are many, many independents in the movement - who think Bush was basically an idiot (I'm one of those). There are many libertarians, or independents who often vote libertarian (I'm one of those). A large percentage (my educated, experienced guess for our local members is around 35%) did not vote for Bush OR McCain this go 'round.

As for your "conservative friend" going to a few events and saying that they "scared him," - hell, I can't imagine where he went or what scared him so much.

Public dissent IS alarming though - maybe that's what he meant by "scared." I hope so - if not, well you know what they say:

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................

Kathryn said:

The Tea Party movement wasn't AROUND in any organized form when Bush was in office. That doesn't mean the people were silent. You really don't know the makeup of the Tea Party members. There are many, many independents in the movement - who think Bush was basically an idiot (I'm one of those). There are many libertarians, or independents who often vote libertarian (I'm one of those). A large percentage (my educated, experienced guess for our local members is around 35%) did not vote for Bush OR McCain this go 'round.

As for your "conservative friend" going to a few events and saying that they "scared him," - hell, I can't imagine where he went or what scared him so much.

Public dissent IS alarming though - maybe that's what he meant by "scared." I hope so - if not, well you know what they say:

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

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I am just doubtful we would have this kind of Tea Party rage if we had a Republican president. You can say that there are libertarians in the movement, and yes, I have a libertarian friend at my University that attends Tea Party meetings, but the first National Tea Party Convention chose Sarah Palin as keynote speaker.

Sarah Palin is an idiot, and there are plenty, plenty more Tea Party participants that agree with me on that one.

There is no "National Tea Party" party by the way. There are many loosely affiliated groups who RESIST pigeon holing and being forced into a defined box.

Darkness said:

I am just doubtful we would have this kind of Tea Party rage if we had a Republican president. You can say that there are libertarians in the movement, and yes, I have a libertarian friend at my University that attends Tea Party meetings, but the first National Tea Party Convention chose Sarah Palin as keynote speaker.

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You're right. The movement was originally orchestrated by a PR firm acting on behalf of the Republican Party and publicized through Fox News, the propaganda wing of the Republican Party. If the Republicans were still in power there would still be loads of libertarians and bigots, but no tea party "movement" to unify them behind Sarah Palin's presidential campaign.

I still don't get what the purpose of the Tea Party being a Republican propaganda arm is. Most Tea Partiers (at least the ones I know about) are either too extreme for the Republican Party, or so extreme that it is not in the benefit of the Party to associate with them. If anything, having a supposedly libertarian Tea Party running candidates around will split the economic rightist vote.

Are the Republicans intentionally trying to lose the next elections, perhaps so that the blame for the disaster they sent rolling in the 1980s will be shared on the winning democrats? After all, with the shortsighted American public, anyone who's around when something bad happens will get the blame, regardless of who caused it. That's why Bush is blamed for imitating Reagan's horrible economic policies, whereas Reagan is worshiped as a Saint.