Tithing Scriptural?

Melody · Aug 12, 2005

Since it was mentioned on another thread...

Note: I use the KJV and NKJV translations.

While listening to the christian radio station yesterday, I heard Charles Stanley say that it doesn't matter whether you worship quietly or stand up and dance with hands waving in the air. The test of a true christian is whether he tithes according to Scripture. Well, let's take a look at Scripture.

Tithing is rarely mentioned in the Bible and even then they were special instances of giving. There is no mention in the Bible of the "practice" of tithing.

Moses tithed the spoils of the Midianite battle. It makes no mention of giving 10% prior to this battle or after....and he did not tithe 10%. He only tithed 2% (if I did the math correctly) at God's command. One of every 50 is 2%, yes? It may even be 1% since they first divided the "plunder" in half and then gave God a cut:

Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: Count up the plunder that was takenof man and beastyou and Eleazar the priest and the chief fathers of the congregation; and divide the plunder into two parts, between those who took part in the war, who went out to battle, and all the congregation. And levy a tribute for the LORD on the men of war who went out to battle: one of every five hundred of the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep; take it from their half, and give it to Eleazar the priest as a heave offering to the LORD. And from the children of Israels half you shall take one of every fifty, drawn from the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep, from all the livestock, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.
Numbers 31:25-30

The second mention of tithing is related to Abraham after a battle.

Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him and said:
Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.
And he gave him a tithe of all.
Genesis 14:18-20

You can read this as giving a tithe to God, but since Melchizedek is speaking to Abraham and blessing him, and then it says "and he gave him a tithe of all", it sure sounds as if Melchizedek gave the tithe to Abraham. I see no mention of giving a tithe to God although it does say in Hebrews 7:1 that Abraham did give a tenth to God. Again, though this was a specific instance and does not mention a practice of tithing on Abraham's part. If it was so important, why is it never mentioned?

The next mention of tithing comes with Jacob.

Then Jacob made a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my fathers house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God. And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be Gods house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.
Genesis 28:20-22

Jacob made a "vow" or bargain with God...that "if" God did "this", then "Jacob" would do "this". Nowhere does it say that God required the tithe. That was Jacob's idea and does not imply that everyone else is now required to tithe 10%.

Starting with Leviticus, there are mentions of tithing but always in relation to the land. There is never a mention of money.

And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORDs. It is holy to the LORD.
Leviticus 27:30

Now, I've heard some people say that it was because that was the easiest or most recognizable form of currency for those times since everyone was a farmer and since we're not all farmers and deal with money, that we must tithe on our earnings. I beg to differ but not every single person was a farmer. There were those who were in trade and depended on the farmers for their sustenance, just as we do today...and yet there is no mention of how they should tithe. Pretty strange since the laws in Leviticus were so very clear.

There are *many* mentions of giving in the Bible and most have to do with giving from the heart which means it's *what* you feel you should give, *when* you feel you should give and *to whom* you feel you should give it. If you want to support your church and minister and feel compelled to do so and that you should give 10% (gee...before or after taxes?), then perhaps God is speaking to your heart and telling you this is where your money should go.

However, for those who do not feel this compulsion and who are instead, after praying, compelled to give their money (without the use of a calculator) and to a worthy cause not related to the local church, it doesn't mean we are breaking God's "laws" or that we're really not Christians.

I see lots of Scriptural basis for giving. None for "tithing" 10% to the church.

James the Persian · Aug 12, 2005

Melody,

I fully agree with you, but can I point out that it is impossible to give a tithe of less than 10%? Tithe is just an old-fashioned word for tenth. Unfortunately, due to the popularity of the KJV, I think, it has been turned into a verb which kind of obscures its origins, but it still means to give a 10th to the Church.

I do not tithe, I don't know of any Orthodox Christian who does (but if they did it would be voluntary and not required), but I equally do not know of a single Orthodox Christian who doesn't offer money to the Church. In fact such voluntary offerings are scriptural and (particularly for poor people) can often come to more than a tithe would be. It is required or expected tithing that is not in line with Scripture.

James

Melody · Aug 12, 2005

IacobPersul said:
I fully agree with you, but can I point out that it is impossible to give a tithe of less than 10%? Tithe is just an old-fashioned word for tenth.

Thank you, I didn't know that. I'll have to go back and read the verses on Moses again. I'm not sure the bible uses the word tithe in this case, but it would be interesting since his giving was way less.

IacobPersul said:
I equally do not know of a single Orthodox Christian who doesn't offer money to the Church. In fact such voluntary offerings are scriptural and (particularly for poor people) can often come to more than a tithe would be. It is required or expected tithing that is not in line with Scripture.

Yes voluntary offerings are scriptural....but would you agree that it doesn't necessarily mean "to the church"? Let me be clear that I have no problem with giving money to the church and have done so when I've attended them. I pay to go see a movie. I'll drop money in the plate on Sunday morning. We still live in the mundane world and still have to pay light bills, taxes, etc.

Ulver · Aug 12, 2005

Melody said:
Since it was mentioned on another thread...

While listening to the christian radio station yesterday, I heard Charles Stanley say that it doesn't matter whether you worship quietly or stand up and dance with hands waving in the air. The test of a true christian is whether he tithes according to Scripture. Well, let's take a look at Scripture.

Sounds like a true evangelist of our day and age. "It's not what you do or how you worship... it's just how you pay. Credit Cards most welcome"

Whenever religion (of any sort) and capitalism mix, it's a rather ugly thing.

djhwoodwerks · May 2, 2016

I know, another old thread, but hey....

God said in Malachi,

Mal 3:8-10 (ESVST) 8 Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, 'How have we robbed you? ' In your tithes and contributions. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you. 10 Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

Although, Jesus never taught about tithing.

URAVIP2ME · May 2, 2016

Remember: the Constitution of the Mosaic Law was only for one nation, and that was the nation of ancient Israel.
Jesus being Messiah fulfilled that old Hebrew Law - Romans 10:4
So, Christians are Not under tithing.

Brian Schuh · May 11, 2016

URAVIP2ME said:
Remember: the Constitution of the Mosaic Law was only for one nation, and that was the nation of ancient Israel.
Jesus being Messiah fulfilled that old Hebrew Law - Romans 10:4
So, Christians are Not under tithing.

The law is fulfilled only when it is obeyed. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Torah, but to keep the Torah. For those who break the least of these commands and teach others to do likewise shall be called least in the kingdom of God.

metis · May 12, 2016

Tithing wasn't and isn't a scriptural mandate for non-Jews, and if a church tells it's people that it is, they're simply not telling the truth but are acting in a self-serving and disingenuous manner.

Tumah · May 12, 2016

Melody said:
Starting with Leviticus, there are mentions of tithing but always in relation to the land. There is never a mention of money.

And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORDs. It is holy to the LORD.
Leviticus 27:30

You missed 27:32

Brian Schuh · May 12, 2016

metis said:
Tithing wasn't and isn't a scriptural mandate for non-Jews, and if a church tells it's people that it is, they're simply not telling the truth but are acting in a self-serving and disingenuous manner.

Right. I agree. With a little clarification.

Ma'aser is Hebrew for tithe. The tithe was to support the priests and the Temple. Jews don't tithe without a Temple.

Tzedakah is not to be confused with ma'aser. It means social justice through giving charity.

Even with a temple, Gentiles are not required to give ma'aser or tzedakah, although they are commended for doing so.

Modern day Judaism and Noahitism recommends a 10% to be given to any proper charity, keeping in mind that charity starts at home, with yourself first, spouse and children next. It is not an obligation.

When the Temple is rebuilt, Noahides will still not be obligated, unless living in Israel, they may be taxed.

I personally set aside 20%, but I do what I want with it, as I am my favorite charity.

Politesse · May 12, 2016

We are required to give whatever we earn, beyond our needs, to the poor. I've never been clear on how the church got involved.

Brian Schuh · May 12, 2016

Politesse said:
We are required to give whatever we earn, beyond our needs, to the poor. I've never been clear on how the church got involved.

Clergy are to be classified as poor. But the greatest religious leaders would even chop wood to support themselves like Rabbi Hillel. St. Paul was a tentmaker. Jesus was a carpenter. People who teach a message are more credible when they don't ask for money. Tithe was meant to support priests. Charity was meant for the poor. I give alms to beggars and I give nothing to my rabbi.

If one wants to be a clergy, first he or she should learn a trade and support him or her self. Anyone who sells the "truth" for tithe $ I hold suspect.

Anyone agree?

URAVIP2ME · May 14, 2016

Brian Schuh said:
Clergy are to be classified as poor. But the greatest religious leaders would even chop wood to support themselves like Rabbi Hillel. St. Paul was a tentmaker. Jesus was a carpenter. People who teach a message are more credible when they don't ask for money. Tithe was meant to support priests. Charity was meant for the poor. I give alms to beggars and I give nothing to my rabbi.
If one wants to be a clergy, first he or she should learn a trade and support him or her self. Anyone who sells the "truth" for tithe $ I hold suspect.
Anyone agree?

Yes, even the apostle Paul supported his ministry by his trade of making tents - Acts of the Apostles 18:3; 1 Thessalonians 2:9; 2 Thessalonians 3:10; 1 Timothy 5:8

Interesting that you say...... ' sells the "truth " for tithe $...... that sounds more like the sin of Simony ( making profit from the sacred ) - Acts of the Apostles 8:20

URAVIP2ME · May 14, 2016

Brian Schuh said:
The law is fulfilled only when it is obeyed. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Torah, but to keep the Torah. For those who break the least of these commands and teach others to do likewise shall be called least in the kingdom of God.

I see at Matthew 5:17 Jesus says he did Not come to destroy (abolish) the Law, but to ' fulfil ' the Law. Jesus ' fulfilled ' the Law -> Luke 4:21
However, Jesus did keep (obey) the Torah til his death, when the night before Jesus set up a new covenant or contact - Luke 22:28-30
Jesus fulfilled the old Law - Romans 10:4
What was Jesus' NEW commandment at John 13:34-35 but to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he had. Love neighbor ' more' than self. More than the Golden Rule.

Brian Schuh · May 14, 2016

URAVIP2ME said:
I see at Matthew 5:17 Jesus says he did Not come to destroy (abolish) the Law, but to ' fulfil ' the Law. Jesus ' fulfilled ' the Law -> Luke 4:21
However, Jesus did keep (obey) the Torah til his death, when the night before Jesus set up a new covenant or contact - Luke 22:28-30
Jesus fulfilled the old Law - Romans 10:4
What was Jesus' NEW commandment at John 13:34-35 but to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he had. Love neighbor ' more' than self. More than the Golden Rule.

You, along with many Christians seem confused about what fulfill means. It is not synonymous with abolish. Jesus did not say, "I haven't come to abolish the Law, but to abolish the Law." Fulfill means to uphold, defend, teach and keep the Law.

"For whoever breaks the least of these comnandments and teaches others to do so, is least in the kingdom of God." The least commandment is to chase a hen off her eggs before taking them. So Jesus taught to keep Torah.

psychoslice · May 14, 2016

I myself don't tithe with money, I tithe myself, there's the worldly tithing and there's the spiritual tithing, just take your pick.

URAVIP2ME · May 14, 2016

Brian Schuh said:
You, along with many Christians seem confused about what fulfill means. It is not synonymous with abolish. Jesus did not say, "I haven't come to abolish the Law, but to abolish the Law." Fulfill means to uphold, defend, teach and keep the Law.
"For whoever breaks the least of these comnandments and teaches others to do so, is least in the kingdom of God." The least commandment is to chase a hen off her eggs before taking them. So Jesus taught to keep Torah.

What does Matthew 5:17 say ? and Luke 4:21 ? and Luke 16:16 ?

Jesus fulfilled as in completed the Law.
Even Israel today does Not keep the Mosaic Law as it was kept in ancient Israel.

Wasn't the Constitution of the Mosaic Law covenant only meant for the one nation of ancient Israel ?______
Never was the Torah meant for everyone. We do Not sacrifice animals.

Since Pentecost the ' Israel of God ' is a spiritual nation and Not a fleshly nation - Galatians 6:16
Jerusalem ' above ' is Now mother - Galatians 4:26
One is Now a spiritual Jew, or a Jew by spirit, and Not by fleshly birth - Romans 2:28-29
The ' Israel of God ' is a nation with No borders or boundaries located or found on any map. - 1 Peter 2:9; 1 Peter 2:5
So, the fleshly nation of natural Israel today exists by the Grace of God as a national group as do the rest of earth's nations.

Brian Schuh · May 14, 2016

URAVIP2ME said:
What does Matthew 5:17 say ? and Luke 4:21 ? and Luke 16:16 ?

Jesus fulfilled as in completed the Law.
Even Israel today does Not keep the Mosaic Law as it was kept in ancient Israel.

Wasn't the Constitution of the Mosaic Law covenant only meant for the one nation of ancient Israel ?______
Never was the Torah meant for everyone. We do Not sacrifice animals.

Since Pentecost the ' Israel of God ' is a spiritual nation and Not a fleshly nation - Galatians 6:16
Jerusalem ' above ' is Now mother - Galatians 4:26
One is Now a spiritual Jew, or a Jew by spirit, and Not by fleshly birth - Romans 2:28-29
The ' Israel of God ' is a nation with No borders or boundaries located or found on any map. - 1 Peter 2:9; 1 Peter 2:5
So, the fleshly nation of natural Israel today exists by the Grace of God as a national group as do the rest of earth's nations.

How do you fulfill or complete a law? By keeping it and teaching it. Not by abolishing it.

Israel today keeps over 369 of their 613 laws. Can you compete?

Of course the Law of Moses was given only to Israel, but the Law of Noah was given to the 70 peoples of Gentiles. Acts 15 references part of this law.

Of course we still sacrifice animals. Jews and Noahides sacrifice when necessary at the Wailing Wall. And when the Temple is rebuilt, there will be more sacrifices and all 613 + 7 laws will be kept. Noahides can sacrifice anywhere, not just the Wailing Wall.

YOU have not come to keep the Law, but to abolish it. Jesus did not come to abolish it, but to keep and teach it.

Just keep the Seven Laws of Noah. If you don't fulfill that, you have no further reward.

URAVIP2ME · May 14, 2016

Yes, natural Israel today does Not keep the 613 laws as they are supposed to under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law.

Acts of the Apostles 15:20 and Acts of the Apostles 15:29 is kept for Christians to keep. That was even established ' before ' the Mosaic Law - Genesis 9:4

What is Jesus' NEW commandment for Christians according to John 13:34-35 ?

URAVIP2ME · May 14, 2016

Melody said:
Since it was mentioned on another thread...
Note: I use the KJV and NKJV translations.
While listening to the christian radio station yesterday, I heard Charles Stanley say that it doesn't matter whether you worship quietly or stand up and dance with hands waving in the air. The test of a true christian is whether he tithes according to Scripture. Well, let's take a look at Scripture.
Tithing is rarely mentioned in the Bible and even then they were special instances of giving. There is no mention in the Bible of the "practice" of tithing.
Moses tithed the spoils of the Midianite battle. It makes no mention of giving 10% prior to this battle or after....and he did not tithe 10%. He only tithed 2% (if I did the math correctly) at God's command. One of every 50 is 2%, yes? It may even be 1% since they first divided the "plunder" in half and then gave God a cut:
Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: Count up the plunder that was takenof man and beastyou and Eleazar the priest and the chief fathers of the congregation; and divide the plunder into two parts, between those who took part in the war, who went out to battle, and all the congregation. And levy a tribute for the LORD on the men of war who went out to battle: one of every five hundred of the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep; take it from their half, and give it to Eleazar the priest as a heave offering to the LORD. And from the children of Israels half you shall take one of every fifty, drawn from the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep, from all the livestock, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.
Numbers 31:25-30
The second mention of tithing is related to Abraham after a battle.

Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him and said:
Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.
And he gave him a tithe of all.
Genesis 14:18-20

You can read this as giving a tithe to God, but since Melchizedek is speaking to Abraham and blessing him, and then it says "and he gave him a tithe of all", it sure sounds as if Melchizedek gave the tithe to Abraham. I see no mention of giving a tithe to God although it does say in Hebrews 7:1 that Abraham did give a tenth to God. Again, though this was a specific instance and does not mention a practice of tithing on Abraham's part. If it was so important, why is it never mentioned?

The next mention of tithing comes with Jacob.

Then Jacob made a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my fathers house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God. And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be Gods house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.
Genesis 28:20-22

Jacob made a "vow" or bargain with God...that "if" God did "this", then "Jacob" would do "this". Nowhere does it say that God required the tithe. That was Jacob's idea and does not imply that everyone else is now required to tithe 10%.

Starting with Leviticus, there are mentions of tithing but always in relation to the land. There is never a mention of money.

And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORDs. It is holy to the LORD.
Leviticus 27:30

Now, I've heard some people say that it was because that was the easiest or most recognizable form of currency for those times since everyone was a farmer and since we're not all farmers and deal with money, that we must tithe on our earnings. I beg to differ but not every single person was a farmer. There were those who were in trade and depended on the farmers for their sustenance, just as we do today...and yet there is no mention of how they should tithe. Pretty strange since the laws in Leviticus were so very clear.

There are *many* mentions of giving in the Bible and most have to do with giving from the heart which means it's *what* you feel you should give, *when* you feel you should give and *to whom* you feel you should give it. If you want to support your church and minister and feel compelled to do so and that you should give 10% (gee...before or after taxes?), then perhaps God is speaking to your heart and telling you this is where your money should go.

However, for those who do not feel this compulsion and who are instead, after praying, compelled to give their money (without the use of a calculator) and to a worthy cause not related to the local church, it doesn't mean we are breaking God's "laws" or that we're really not Christians.
I see lots of Scriptural basis for giving. None for "tithing" 10% to the church.

Charles Stanley is Wrong: Test of a true Christian according to Jesus is found in Jesus' NEW commandment found at John 13:34-35 to have self-sacrificing love for others.
No tithing for Christians - Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:13-14; Romans 6:14; Hebrews 7:12; 1 Peter 2:9; 2 Corinthians 8:12; 2 Corinthians 9:7

Tithing Scriptural?

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