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From 'born again' to agnostic

The Neo Nerd

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
jml03 said:
For the killing, everything happens for a reason. I am not on a need to know basis. He didn't send me an email to let me know what was up. He kind of works like that, in ways which we can't comprehend from time to time. Maybe one day I will ask, maybe it won't be an issue for me to have to know.
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So you put it to the back of your mind. You have to take the bible and it supposed creator in its entirety.

Why do you continue to worship such a truly evil, narcissistic being. Why do you worship a supposedly ALL POWERFUL being who allows all sorts of evil and punishment. I mean you can say "no one can understand gods will". However no matter what his reasons are he stills sits by and does nothing whilst there is such pain and suffering.

What kind of being could be that callous?

Eternal torture, well, I don't have to worry about it, now do I? Because I do believe. But, I'm not entirely sure that it is this place of fire and brimstone anymore. I have opened up to knew possibilities since joining RF. Someone told me their perspective, then another, and so on.... so I'm not really sure about it right now.
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I agree that the biblical hell is not meant to be all fire and brimstone. But it is meant to be that horrible that it is used as threat to make people believe in him.

What kind of callous being would be that narcissistic. Perhaps instead of praising god you could help him find some inner happiness of himself, because external sources of happiness will not fill the hole that he has.

-Q
 
jml03

jml03

Member
Autodidact said:
So basically genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, all not for you to question, as long as it's your God that's doing it?

Eternal torture, well, I don't have to worry about it, now do I? Because I do believe.
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And after all, who gives a damn about Mahatma Gandhi or Socrates, right? As long as it's not happening to you. That's the extent of God's mercy.[/QUOTE]

The first part, you nailed it. I have questioned God. I buried a child - my own. That raised alot of questions. Anger, rage, depression, helplessness ----- so much. But, EVERYTHING, even the loss of my little girl, happens for a reason. God supplied more after that loss that I could have asked for. I married a man with 2 daughters, thus I was immediately given children. I now have 2 of my own, as well. Everything happens for a reason and I thank God that He knows better than me.

NO, you put words into my mouth. I'm not here to judge anyone. I'm not going to say who goes to hell and does not. If you read my posts you will see that. And, either way, whatever Hell may be like - no, I'm proud to say I do not fear it. Jesus went to prepare a place in Heaven for me. I need not worry too much about the rest. I believe in what He promised me. I'm not here for Ghandi or Socrates. They are not even here. And, I don't have to decide where they are. Why does it concern you? Do you not believe in any hereafter anyway?
 
jml03

jml03

Member
Quaxotic said:
So you put it to the back of your mind. You have to take the bible and it supposed creator in its entirety.

Why do you continue to worship such a truly evil, narcissistic being. Why do you worship a supposedly ALL POWERFUL being who allows all sorts of evil and punishment. I mean you can say "no one can understand gods will". However no matter what his reasons are he stills sits by and does nothing whilst there is such pain and suffering.

What kind of being could be that callous?



I agree that the biblical hell is not meant to be all fire and brimstone. But it is meant to be that horrible that it is used as threat to make people believe in him.

What kind of callous being would be that narcissistic. Perhaps instead of praising god you could help him find some inner happiness of himself, because external sources of happiness will not fill the hole that he has.

-Q
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I'm sorry, but the anger in your post is evident. Why? When you disbelieve any good thing about God, yet make your argument based on only bad... either you believe in all or none, right?

And, I will say AGAIN, I do not have to believe the same way as you expect me to. I do not have to accept and inspect, pore over, ponder, debate - every little period and comma in the bible. I don't accept everything, but I do not have to defend it to a nonbeliever or a believer. I only have to convey it to God.
 
Danmac

Danmac

Well-Known Member
Luminous said:
Well, i was running around RF. and a few people were arguing about stoning women for adultery and the topic came up. and people were saying that they're bible admitted that it could have been a later addition. I just took their word for it. In anycase, I found this: The Bible And Christianity -- The Historical Origins
also, im getting the feeling that my pentacostal friend is saying that in her opinion there is no unforgivable sins... I don't get it. clearly there are two. saying that jesus had a demon in him, or that you have the holy spirit in you when you dont, or saying something ugly about the holy spirit (like that its Gabriel/not, pepending on which is true), or saying there is no holy spirit ; AND...
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So you read some biased piece and form a conclusion from it.
 
The Neo Nerd

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
The first part, you nailed it. I have questioned God. I buried a child - my own. That raised alot of questions. Anger, rage, depression, helplessness ----- so much. But, EVERYTHING, even the loss of my little girl, happens for a reason. God supplied more after that loss that I could have asked for. I married a man with 2 daughters, thus I was immediately given children. I now have 2 of my own, as well. Everything happens for a reason and I thank God that He knows better than me.[/quote]

And what possible reason could there be for killing your daughter. What will you have gained or learnt from the experience.

I've lost a child myself, and i learned a lot about myself and the one i loved and the world around me from the experience.

I ask you what did i learn that an ALL POWERFUL god couldn't have just put in my head.

-Q
 
Luminous

Luminous

non-existential luminary
Danmac said:
So you read some biased piece and form a conclusion from it.
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No, but i chose to trust some members of RF to not be lying and that their Bibles were not lying either, then i formed an assumption...then I went looking for evidence and all i found was that very unverified site that seams very reasonable so i'm going to trust it...but not so much so as to claim 100% validity for its historical claims.
2 unforgivable sins acording to christianity...
im going to start a new thread.
 
The Neo Nerd

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
jml03 said:
I'm sorry, but the anger in your post is evident. Why? When you disbelieve any good thing about God, yet make your argument based on only bad... either you believe in all or none, right?

And, I will say AGAIN, I do not have to believe the same way as you expect me to. I do not have to accept and inspect, pore over, ponder, debate - every little period and comma in the bible. I don't accept everything, but I do not have to defend it to a nonbeliever or a believer. I only have to convey it to God.
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I wouldn't say anger. Irritation at yours and others like you inability to accept the entirety of your belief system. You hold on to the good and just reject the bad. If it wasn't wilfully ignorant it would be pitiable.

-Q
 
jml03

jml03

Member
[/quote]

And what possible reason could there be for killing your daughter. What will you have gained or learnt from the experience.

I've lost a child myself, and i learned a lot about myself and the one i loved and the world around me from the experience.

I ask you what did i learn that an ALL POWERFUL god couldn't have just put in my head.

-Q[/QUOTE]

In my case, I can only guess. Could it be, since he foresaw my divorce, my battle with drugs, the fact that she would be tossed from one ill-adjusted home to another - that in a drug induced stupor I would have hurt her myself, or something so critically wrong with her that I would not have been able to provide adequate means for her ( I would have kept her no matter what, mind you). There have been many pitfalls in my life, perhaps that he deemed her necessary to be with Him. Again, I can only guess. But through all the pain, I am a better human being. I am free from drugs and alcohol. I am a good wife. I am a good mother. I value my life and the love of ones in it. Yes, for me, he could have just put it in my head, but in my case... it would not have sunk in.
 
Danmac

Danmac

Well-Known Member
Luminous said:
No, but i chose to trust some members of RF to not be lying and that their Bibles were not lying either, then i formed an assumption...then I went looking for evidence and all i found was that very unverified site that seams very reasonable so i'm going to trust it...but not so much so as to claim 100% validity for its historical claims.
2 unforgivable sins acording to christianity...
im going to start a new thread.
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It's a secular piece. What business do they have interpreting something that they cannot comprehend?
 
Luminous

Luminous

non-existential luminary
Danmac said:
It's a secular piece. What business do they have interpreting something that they cannot comprehend?
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Its a book, its just a book. You may idolize it all you want, it cannot cry out when we interpret it.
I find great Irony in your diatribe. What business do you have interpreting something you cannot comprehend? That is why God loves those who confess their Agnosticism.
 
Danmac

Danmac

Well-Known Member
Luminous said:
Its a book, its just a book. You may idolize it all you want, it cannot cry out when we interpret it.
I find great Irony in your diatribe. What business do you have interpreting something you cannot comprehend? That is why God loves those who confess their Agnosticism.
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I used to be an unbeliever so I can relate to the mindset.
 
The Neo Nerd

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
In my case, I can only guess. Could it be, since he foresaw my divorce, my battle with drugs, the fact that she would be tossed from one ill-adjusted home to another - that in a drug induced stupor I would have hurt her myself, or something so critically wrong with her that I would not have been able to provide adequate means for her ( I would have kept her no matter what, mind you). There have been many pitfalls in my life, perhaps that he deemed her necessary to be with Him. Again, I can only guess. But through all the pain, I am a better human being. I am free from drugs and alcohol. I am a good wife. I am a good mother. I value my life and the love of ones in it. Yes, for me, he could have just put it in my head, but in my case... it would not have sunk in.
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Why did he not take the drugs out of your system, why did he not find a good home for your baby. Why did he not make you a better mother.

He is after all ALL POWERFUL. I don't think you understand the concept of ALL POWERFUL.

I'm sure the being that brought the ENTIRETY OF EXISTENCE in existence with a single word would have the ability to take away your drug addiction, give your daughter a extremely happy life and make you believe a couple of thoughts.

-Q

P.S. It pleases me that you have recovered from your addiction and have found yourself a wonderful family. Never ever forget YOU did that. I have no doubt that YOU fought your drug addiction. That YOU dragged yourself out of the "gutter". That YOU struggled to make your life the way it is now.

You are a credit to human kind.
 
Luminous

Luminous

non-existential luminary
Danmac said:
The Dead Sea scrolls and the Greek Textus Receptus are much more reliable than all modern translations.
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Oh yes, the site does talk about those...
As discussed above, there was considerable intellectual ferment in Palestine at the time of the beginning of the Jesus movements. Many secular scholars and scholars from non-Judeo-Christian traditions have proposed, and I tend to agree, that it is likely that the Jesus myth began as a social movement to 'reJudify' Judaism. Remember that at this point, the temple was thoroughly corrupt, the high priest was a Roman political appointee, and many Jews felt that their culture and religion were under threat.

The most prominent of the many movements to 'reJudaify' Judaism was the Essene Movement. Founded in the second century B.C.E., the Essenes were either founded by or greatly influenced by a "Teacher of Righteousness," to which the Dead Sea Scrolls make constant reference without ever naming. One individual who fits the scanty evidence is a Yeishu ha Notzri, Jesus or Jesua, or Yeshua or Joshua ben Pantera or Pentera or Pandera or Pandira, who apparently had some influence with this movement, but may have been much more than that; we simply don't know. Indeed, there are even several first-century Christian references to this supposed miracle worker.

If he was the Teacher of Righteousness referred to by the Dead Sea Scrolls, as some have suggested, his impact on the movement towards Jewish reform was considerable. And if he was the Teacher of Righteousness, it would answer a lot of interesting questions, such as the scattered first century Christian and Talmudic references to a miracle worker named Yeishu ha Notzri, known to first-century Christians as Jesus or Jesua ben Pantera. Among them are a quote from Origen, saying that his arch-rival Celsus had heard from a Jew in Jerusalem that "Jesus Ben Pantera" was born of Mary as the result of a rape by a Roman soldier named Pantera, and had borne the baby in secret (most scholars now regard this claim to be a first-century legend resulting from misinterpretation of the facts).
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Textus Receptus (Latin: "received text") is the name subsequently given to the succession of printed Greek texts of the New Testament which constituted the translation base for the original German Luther Bible, for the translation of the New Testament into English by William Tyndale, the King James Version, and for most other Reformation-era New Testament translations throughout Western and Central Europe. The series originated with the first printed Greek New Testament to be published; a work undertaken in Basel by the Dutch Catholic scholar and humanist Desiderius Erasmus in 1516, on the basis of some six manuscripts, containing between them not quite the whole of the New Testament. The lacking text was translated from Vulgate. Although based mainly on late manuscripts of the Byzantine text-type, Erasmus's edition differed markedly from the classic form of that text.
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A scholar by the name of William Tyndale had the ambition of translating into English the entire bible, not from the Vulgate, but from the original Greek and Hebrew. This became his life's work. Tyndale learned his Greek from Erasmus. His study of the Greek New Testament by Erasmus probably influenced his later work.
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The Textus Receptus was established on a basis of the Byzantine text-type, also called 'Majority text', and usually is identified with it by its followers. But the Textus Receptus has some additions and variants which did not exist in the Byzantine text before the 16th century. The Comma Johanneum in 1 John 5:7 is well known example, but there are also other texts like: Matt 10:8; 27:35; Luke 17:36; John 3:25; Acts 8:37; 9:5; 15:34; and some readings ("book of life" instead of "tree of life" in Revelation 22:19) which the Byzantine text did not have. In these cases the majority of manuscripts agree with the Alexandrian text-type against the Textus Receptus.
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Luminous

Luminous

non-existential luminary
Danmac said:
I used to be an unbeliever so I can relate to the mindset.
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What mindset? The fact that the Lord God speaks and reveals the truth to me? He would do the same for you, if you only let go of your lies. Trust me when I tell you that you were NEVER anything that can be relateable to who I am.
 
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