What is the Difference?

Enhanced Spirit: Looks the same to me.

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I will take this in the kindest way possible.... .

~Victor

C-1, could you share some of the healing spells you use? My mom has a bunch of problems and my bro has a bad back, maybe i could use the spells to help them out. I would greatly appreciate it.

Oh, and in response to your question, there is no difference, it all depends on the persons perspective.

TheJedi said:

C-1, could you share some of the healing spells you use? My mom has a bunch of problems and my bro has a bad back, maybe i could use the spells to help them out. I would greatly appreciate it.

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Whilst having no no opinion on the subject for myself,

http://www.skepdic.com/althelth.html gives a very good descritpion of such practices, and many scientific reasons for why they "work".

I have a wiccan friend otherwise I would probably not know too much about the wiccan faith, plus there are some very informative sites online.

You named the difference in your post, wiccans are polythiests, they believe in gods & godsesses, not the Almighty God.
If it feels good do it, as long as it does no harm to anyone else, sounds good, but even claiming this
(pagan) belief
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.
Is harmful to others, especially if your a parent, and your little ones become influenced against God, and instead to gods, and goddesses, and worshipping the earth, which is like us, merely another of God's creations.
This religion is a sensual, sexual religion.
Worshipping pleasure rather than God, all in an effort to be free from God's rule, to be your own master. therefore only have to please your self.

While God's children serve God, and seek to please him. Although the lusts of the flesh are still alive in the believer, and sin is a reality in all of us.




http://www.spiritwatch.org/paglie2.htm
"For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped the and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever, Amen." (Romans 1:25)

In part one, it was shown how paganism as a religion has its origin in the original lie of the great deceiver, that we all can be gods. This second article is part two, and* will examine the historical claims of Wicca, and the inaccuracies therein.

No one will doubt that witchcraft is an old tradition. Paganism, idol worship, and sorcery are very old practices that are well documented in the Old Testament, as well as secular historical texts. As we saw in part one, the historical basis for paganism (and many other false religions) began in heaven with Satan's rebellion against God.

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, and I will sit on the mount of the assembly in the recesses of the north. I will make myself like the Most High'." (Isaiah 14: 12-14)

Circle_One said:

A couple of links that Draka posted in the Wicca section here got me thinking and I thought I'd pose my question to all of you out there in RF land to see what everyone else thinks.

In this particular link, the author is criticizing and condemning Wiccans (and all those of Magickal paths) for many reasons, one of these being the fact that we perform spells, rituals, divination, etc.

What I want to know is, what exactly is the difference between a Wiccan (or Pagan, or Witch, etc) asking the Goddess for guidance and through her gathering power to perform spells, and Jesus performing miracles through the power of God or Christians asking God for guidance through prayers, etc. etc.?

I figured we could get a good, healthy debate about this and I'm keen to hear answers from all sides.

Please though, don't condemn me to hell, I've had way too much of that in this past week

Thanks.

C1

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CMIYC said:

I believe all humans suffer from a form of schizophrenia, god being that conmen imaginary friend. If you’re not with the majority then you become an outcast. No one has ever seen god, yet, you can call out his name in public and no one thinks anything of it. Walk down the street and talk to imaginary friend Steve and you’ll become an outcast. Jesus claims his god but always looks to heavens for answers, even worse, he prays to himself and questions himself. Do you think if you were all knowing “god” creator of all, this would be necessary? My view has always been, you don’t need common nominator (god) for spirituality. Spirituality can be reached through sport, politics, family and friends and so on. Spirituality is anything a group of people can do together, share together and archive together.

Cheers

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I am a schiaophrenic ? :biglaugh: Oh , I must thank you for the best laugh I have had for ages..........

dhiannian said:

Worshipping pleasure rather than God, all in an effort to be free from God's rule, to be your own master. therefore only have to please your self.

While God's children serve God, and seek to please him. Although the lusts of the flesh are still alive in the believer, and sin is a reality in all of us.

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Worshipping pleasure rather than God. You know that is exactly how I felt when I would go to Baptist church with my grandmoter. All the ladies would be dressed to the gills with gold dripping off their necks and wrists. Most Christians I know are all about money, they want to make more money, they need more money, if only they had more money, everything else would be fine.

Most of the practicing witches I know actually believe in God, and pray that the work they do is with God's will. The fact that the Wicca religion is based on being in synch with nature, puts them closer to God's will than the Christians with their giant churches, and tv evangelists. I am not bashing Christians over Wicca, I just think everyone should be perfecting themselves and not their neighbors.

Dhiannian, first, I have to say, it seems to me that you're talking about Wicca as if it is the only magickal Pagan religion and as if all Wiccans (and Pagans for that matter) are the same, believe the same, think the same, etc. when in fact, that's not true, and I'm not even talking about Wicca. I'm talking about Magickal practices in general and I, myself, am not even Wiccan.

Second,

Is harmful to others, especially if your a parent, and your little ones become influenced against God, and instead to gods, and goddesses, and worshipping the earth, which is like us, merely another of God's creations.

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I'm sorry, but come off it. I AM a parent and I am in no way influencing my son against anyone or for anyone else. My son knows what I am, he knows what I do and what I believe in, but he also knows about Christianity and the Christian God. I've read him Bible stories as well as Pagan stories. I've explained to him what my beliefs are and what other beliefs are (not just Christianity). He is his own person and he will be free to choose whatever path he sees fit for himself. By claiming that as Pagan parents we harm the children by influencing them against ANY God, just shows that you don't really know as much about Paganism as you are claiming to know. Pagans aren't against any religion or God. We believe that ALL religions have validity and all religions are the right and true path for those who choose them, unlike a lot of Christians.

This religion is a sensual, sexual religion.
Worshipping pleasure rather than God, all in an effort to be free from God's rule, to be your own master. therefore only have to please your self.

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If, by this, you mean that we don't chastise our followers for having sex before marriage or for "giving in to such temptations" as lust, then fine, yeah, we are a sensual, sexual religion. However, if by this, you are claiming the stereotype "Witches have wicked, bad, evil, lustful orgies", than once again, you are wrong about us and are obviously only spouting those works of fiction that Christian idealists write about us in order to justify their own chastising.

Worshipping pleasure...now that's a bit of a stretch. We worship our Gods and Goddesses, and is not, in any way, as a means of being free from your God's rule. As ES said, many Pagans believe in, and do worship, the Christian God, they just go about it a different way, but I suppose you'll just say that unless those people worship the Christian God in your way, that they are wrong and are instead worshipping the devil, or some such nonsense. We don't worship pleasure, Dhiannian, we merely allow our followers to do as they please, as long as no one is hurt. And besides, I really, highly doubt that any God, yours or otherwise, could care less about someone's personal sexual activities or practices.

Circle_One said:

What I want to know is, what exactly is the difference between a Wiccan (or Pagan, or Witch, etc) asking the Goddess for guidance and through her gathering power to perform spells, and Jesus performing miracles through the power of God or Christians asking God for guidance through prayers, etc. etc.?

C1

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I don't think that this is a question with a simple answer C1 , but as I am a simple ogre , I will try to give one , as I see it .

And please everyone , when I talk about Magic here , I am talking about Magic in general . And the same goes for Prayer . I am going to try to explain this without getting into any specific religion , so in this case I don't care what any religious book says .

Ok , as I see it there is a small difference between spellcraft and prayer . One works a spell , where one prays { asks } in prayer . It is kinda like two children who are told by their mother that after they do a small chore , they eacg can have a cookie . One finishes , and having already been told so , goes to the cookie jar and helps hisself . The other goes to his mother and says " Mother , I have finished . May I have the cookie now ? "

Now , the above excample makes one child appear to be more polite then the other , but is he really ? It all depends upon the rules of the household .

Having said that C1 , the Threefold Law is so true . Not only in Magic , but in everything we do , or don't do .