What Counts as Innovation in Islam, and what is a moderate?

This came up between me and some other Muslims in the Islam DIR, and you can't debate there, so I started this thread. I used to be a Muslim, a Shi'ite, and also a liberal-moderate. I basically disregarded some of the teachings in Islam because I saw them as outdated or not relevant to a Muslim living in western society. In other words, I didn't want my faith to be about trying to live like an Arab, when I don't live in an Arab country, and I'm not an Arab. It came up that I was a kuffar, even though I was a Muslim. So what do you think? If Islam says one thing, but science discovers something else, isn't the reasonable thing to do is to disregard Islam on the matter, it being 1400 years old, and accept what science says? That is what I would call a true moderate.

Senedjem said:

So what do you think? If Islam says one thing, but science discovers something else, isn't the reasonable thing to do is to disregard Islam on the matter, it being 1400 years old, and accept what science says? That is what I would call a true moderate.

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This is basically called "being rational."

Yeah atotalstranger, and that's how I practiced Islam. Yet I get told I was a kuffar because I don't try to live like an Arab. Well hello, I'm not one. I live in the US. Muslims are also supposed to be good citizens in the countries they live in and not create social unrest. That means you agree with the government, be it secular or not. You don't try to replace it with Sharia. Sharia is outdated too, and is based mostly on what scholars said the Prophet meant by so and so.

Senedjem said:

Yeah atotalstranger, and that's how I practiced Islam. Yet I get told I was a kuffar because I don't try to live like an Arab. Well hello, I'm not one. I live in the US. Muslims are also supposed to be good citizens in the countries they live in and not create social unrest. That means you agree with the government, be it secular or not. You don't try to replace it with Sharia. Sharia is outdated too, and is based mostly on what scholars said the Prophet meant by so and so.

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I think this points to the fact that Islam, for the most part, is more cultural than religious.

Yes apparently Islam on a certain level is cultural, but does it have to be? If Islam is supposed to be the universal religion for all mankind, surely it can adapt to culture? I mean, Muslims can't honestly expect people in the West to want to live like Arabs.

Moonstone there are many Muslims that think a lot of the practices in Islam are outdated, but they're afraid to speak out, because Wahabis especially label anyone who encourages innovation "kuffar" and worthy of death. There is a website I was a member of when I was a Muslim called the Awake Project. It's a progressive Muslim website with a forum. Also there is Free Minds, a somewhat Quranist based movement, but they welcome sectarian free thinkers. Also there is Al-Faitha, which is LGBT Muslims. I was of course a member of that I was a Shi'ite, but I was also a progressive moderate.

All religions are strongly cultural, far as I can tell. Not just Islam. And there is nothing wrong with that, either.

But it seems to me that there are significant difficulties involved with questioning the cultural aspects of Islam. Many Muslims seem to sincerely believe, or at least to feel that they should believe, that Islam is in some way immutable and above questioning and change. Implicitly, many also give a strong impression of expecting that the whole world should indeed want to convert for their own good - and learn Arab language and culture as part of that.

Yes Luis, I personally never got that myself

It is easy to understand, however. Diversity is scary, quite frankly. At least at first. I wasn't even a Christian and still I went through a period of being scared when I noticed that there were countries where Christianity was rare yet Islam was widespread.