Why is being gay considered wrong?

I don't think Draka and some others have gotten the point.

In the America, you have the right to be a homosexual. However, via logic and rationality and intelligent thinking, you CANNOT be a Judeo-Christian AND be a homosexual at the same time.

You see, if you are homosexual and claim to be a christian, you are either deceived or trying to justify your conscious. The biblical position is that it is wrong.

Go ahead and do your homosexual stuff. I don't really care. But according to Scripture, it is simply wrong and thus disqualifies you from being a Child of God. : )

So it is WRONG via the God of the Bible, but I agree, it is not wrong via other gods and demons that people at times worship, ignorantly.

Corrupt Priest, This is a verse I dedicate to you based on your screen name

Jeremiah 17:3. : )

Cold-Stone Advantage

Cold-Stone said:

I don't think Draka and some others have gotten the point.
In the America, you have the right to be a homosexual. However, via logic and rationality and intelligent thinking, you CANNOT be a Judeo-Christian AND be a homosexual at the same time.
You see, if you are homosexual and claim to be a christian, you are either deceived or trying to justify your conscious. The biblical position is that it is wrong.
Go ahead and do your homosexual stuff. I don't really care. But according to Scripture, it is simply wrong and thus disqualifies you from being a Child of God. : )
So it is WRONG via the God of the Bible, but I agree, it is not wrong via other gods and demons that people at times worship, ignorantly.

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Let's assume for a moment that homosexuality is wrong under God (which it would never be under a just God but let's assume that anyway) Your argument suggests that whatever is wrong according to scripture disqualifies you from being a child of God? Then you have never sinned? It would seem to me that either you have never sinned, or you are just being bigoted.

Cold-Stone,

All I can say is that I hope, for your sake, that God is less judgemental with you than you are towards your Brothers and sisters, in his eyes.

God is very judgemental. The God found in the Divine Encyclopedia of Truth [a.k.a. the Bible]. That is why there is a concept of hell and God's wrath. We call that in theology "Theodicy." God is not a marshmallow you can squeeze.

Thou Shalt not Judge is refering to hypocritical judgement. If I was gay and said it's wrong to be gay. You must read it in context (the Volumes of the Encyclopedia) and not robotically go along with a cliche (this is sloppy thinking). ---See John 7:24, since there is a righteous judgement, along with 2nd Corinthians 11:5 (judging yourself).

--I am a sinner. However, perpetual gross sins disqualifies you from the CHristianity. (see. 2nd Thessalonians 3. Since we shall know them by their fruits, if they are a fruit indeed, we know that they most likely are bound for hell. Though only God knows ultimately and He may grab them sometime in the end.

---Now this is the Judeo Christian position. Again, you could be a buddhist, satanist, atheist, and even a muslim (in the afterlife) and it is A-OK for you to be a Homosexual. And again, our country allows that. BUT via the CHristian position, yoU CANNOT be a Christian and be a perpetual homosexual. (see Galatians 5:21).

So those homosexuals that are posting. I would encourage you to fulfill your sexual aberation along with joining a pagan cult full heartedly. Don't go to the United Methodoist CHurches to ease your conscious (they've been attacked and defeated by Feminism), but rather join wicca or what have you.

This would be the fulfillment of your suppression towards truth (Romans 1:18). : )

I do hope this helps-since this is my goal.

Cold-Stone Advantage

Cold-Stone said:

God is very judgemental. The God found in the Divine Encyclopedia of Truth [a.k.a. the Bible]. That is why there is a concept of hell and God's wrath. We call that in theology "Theodicy." God is not a marshmallow you can squeeze.

Thou Shalt not Judge is refering to hypocritical judgement. If I was gay and said it's wrong to be gay. You must read it in context (the Volumes of the Encyclopedia) and not robotically go along with a cliche. ---See John 7:24, since there is a righteous judgement, along with 2nd Corinthians 11:5 (judging yourself).

--I am a sinner. However, perpetual gross sins disqualifies you from the CHristianity. (see. 2nd Thessalonians 3. Since we shall know them by their fruits, if they are a fruit indeed, we know that they most likely are bound for hell. Though only God knows ultimately and He may grab them sometime in the end.

---Now this is the Judeo Christian position. Again, you could be a buddhist, satanist, atheist, and even a muslim (in the afterlife) and it is A-OK for you to be a Homosexual. And again, our country allows that. BUT via the CHristian position, yoU CANNOT be a Christian and be a perpetual homosexual. (see Galatians 5:21).

So those homosexuals that are posting. I would encourage you to fulfill your sexual aberation along with joining a pagan cult full heartedly. Don't go to the United Methodoist CHurches to ease your conscious (they've been attacked and defeated by Feminism), but rather join wicca or what have you.

This would be the fulfillment of your suppression towards truth (Romans 1:18). : )

Cold-Stone Advantage

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Let me get this right; you believe in the Christian God ? - I presume you do, because you quote from the bible.

As a Christian, do you think that the Christian God is the only God ?

You must define God/gods. Of course there is only 1 ultimate true God Deutronomy 4:6. However, there are many false gods that are referred to as gods represented as demons. Thus when God says do not worship any other gods besides me, He's talking about not having people view any other source worthy of the title that only He deserves.

Satan is also referred to as a god of this world (see. 2nd Corinthians 4:4).

So yes-The Bible speaks of only 1 ultimate true God, however He has allowed many to fall into perversion by worshiping other gods in people's hearts.

Yes, I am a Christian.

Cold-Stone Advantage

I agree. Homosexuals and anyone who believes in liberty and independence should join "a pagan cult full heartedly. Don't go to the United Methodoist CHurches to ease your conscious (they've been attacked and defeated by Feminism), but rather join wicca or what have you."

Cold-Stone said:

You must define God/gods. Of course there is only 1 ultimate true God Deutronomy 4:6. However, there are many false gods that are referred to as gods represented as demons. Thus when God says do not worship any other gods besides me, He's talking about not having people view any other source worthy of the title that only He deserves.

Satan is also referred to as a god of this world (see. 2nd Corinthians 4:4).

So yes-The Bible speaks of only 1 ultimate true God, however He has allowed many to fall into perversion by worshiping other gods in people's hearts.

Yes, I am a Christian.

Cold-Stone Advantage

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so, doesn't your advice, to homosexuals,

ie To " be a buddhist, satanist, atheist, and even a muslim (in the afterlife) and it is A-OK for you to be a Homosexual. And again, our country allows that. BUT via the CHristian position, yoU CANNOT be a Christian and be a perpetual homosexual."

- be very wrong - in that, by your own admission, you believe that they will be judged by the 'Christian, one and only God ' ?

Haven't you, by advising them to change their religion, advised a path that is contrary to the advice your Faith tells you is the requirement - ie to do your utmost to spread Christianity ? Haven't you set the homosexuals on a path to another sin

michel said:

Haven't you, by advising them to change their religion, advised a path that is contrary to the advice your Faith tells you is the requirement - ie to do your utmost to spread Christianity ? Haven't you set the homosexuals on a path to another sin

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Shhhhh Michel... Shouldn't we allow Cold to tell people what to do? I mean, after all, we're not supposed to judge now are we? Who is to say if what he is doing is right or wrong? Let God decide.

Cold-Stone said:

So those homosexuals that are posting. I would encourage you to fulfill your sexual aberation along with joining a pagan cult full heartedly. Don't go to the United Methodoist CHurches to ease your conscious (they've been attacked and defeated by Feminism), but rather join wicca or what have you.

This would be the fulfillment of your suppression towards truth (Romans 1:18). : )

I do hope this helps-since this is my goal.

Cold-Stone Advantage

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You are the most judgemental person I have ever heard. And you don't just "join" another religion...and it IS a religion...not a "cult" in the way you think. Religion has to do with faith and internal belief and is personal to a person...who the heck are you to tell someone that just because they don't fit YOUR definition of what you THINK they should act like while claiming to believe a certain way that they don't infact believe that way???? and to tell them to "join" another religion like you enlist for the military is just ludicrous!

orichalcum said:

As long as it doesn't harm anyone else, why the big deal?

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The only reason - regardless of what excuse they give - for the homophobes to hate gays is simply this: gays make them nervous. They don't understand homosexuality, often thinking of it as a disease or something, and their ignorance breeds fear. They're either not into that stuff and fear it because they don't understand it, or they are afraid of being a homosexual (Whether or not those feelings are justified) and the societial ostricising that would come with it.

Kat

Faminedynasty said:

Let's assume for a moment that homosexuality is wrong under God (which it would never be under a just God but let's assume that anyway) Your argument suggests that whatever is wrong according to scripture disqualifies you from being a child of God? Then you have never sinned? It would seem to me that either you have never sinned, or you are just being bigoted.

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How could you say that it isn't wrong under God? Because he is just?! I guess, then, since he is such a just God, it is also not wrong to murder, steal, commit adultury, bear false witness, covet, lust, dishonour your father or your mother, or any of the other things that are spelled out just as plainly in the Bible as being abominations.

Funny thing is, Aqualung, the things you mentioned are in the 10 Commandments. Either they've been modified or homosexuality isn't on there. Not everything is black and white.

michel said:

Cold-Stone,

All I can say is that I hope, for your sake, that God is less judgemental with you than you are towards your Brothers and sisters, in his eyes.

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It's okay to recognise someone is sinning. It's just a bad idea to go around punishing them for their sins, instead of letting God do that. I can look at someone and say, "Wow, that person is an adulturer, and I know God doesn't like that because it's written all over in the Bible, but I'll still listen to them, be a friend, and love them, like what's also written all over the Bible." I can't speak for cold-stone, but I know that's what I'm doing. I can recognise sins, because the Bible is pretty darned clear in spelling out what sorts of actions are sins, but that doesn't mean that I don't love my neighbour any less than I did before this thread started. You can love someone, yet still know what they are doing wrong. Jesus did it all the time. Remember the story with the samaritan woman at the well? Even knowing she had had many men, who weren't her husbands, and even after telling her that he knew all this, he still loved her. Regonising or explaining a sin is not what is a problem - it's taking judgement into your own hands.

Aqualung said:

How could you say that it isn't wrong under God? Because he is just?! I guess, then, since he is such a just God, it is also not wrong to murder, steal, commit adultury, bear false witness, covet, lust, dishonour your father or your mother, or any of the other things that are spelled out just as plainly in the Bible as being abominations.

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There is not a single "Law of God" that humans have not used God as an excuse for breaking. Let's examine the ten commandments, shall we? (Starting with the biggest ones)
"1. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me."


Anyone who is obsessed with celebrities, or is excessively greedy, or believe in Satan (Satan is, after all the Christian God of Evil. If he weren't a God, how else could he thwart God?) break this rule. Anyone who considers their leaders - whether religious or secular - as infallable is breaking this rule, because how can anyone but God be infallable?


"2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain."


Aside from "God dammit" and "Jesus Christ," being spoken as curse words, anyone who prays to God for something selfish is breaking this rule. Anyone who uses references to Jesus or God to sway public opinion (like Bush does) or uses God to justify wars and killing is taking God's name in vain.


"3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them."


Art, anyone?


"4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."


Since when was football, going out to eat, having a picnic, or watching TV ever "holy" to a Christian?


"5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long."


LOL!


"6. Thou shalt not kill."


Killing in the name of God is still killing.


"8. Thou shalt not steal."


Stealing for one's country (invading a country for their oil, and so on) is still stealing.


"9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

False accusations are made so often, it is not funny. The sheer number of people put in jail and having their lives ruined from this is overwhelming.

I won't even go into how childish some of these rules are, nor into how childish one has to be to only behave because of fear of punishment. Me, I behave because it's right to behave, not because I fear being eternally spanked on my wee bottom for my naughty naughtyness.

Kat

Aqualung said:

It's okay to recognise someone is sinning. It's just a bad idea to go around punishing them for their sins, instead of letting God do that. I can look at someone and say, "Wow, that person is an adulturer, and I know God doesn't like that because it's written all over in the Bible, but I'll still listen to them, be a friend, and love them, like what's also written all over the Bible." I can't speak for cold-stone, but I know that's what I'm doing. I can recognise sins, because the Bible is pretty darned clear in spelling out what sorts of actions are sins, but that doesn't mean that I don't love my neighbour any less than I did before this thread started. You can love someone, yet still know what they are doing wrong. Jesus did it all the time. Remember the story with the samaritan woman at the well? Even knowing she had had many men, who weren't her husbands, and even after telling her that he knew all this, he still loved her. Regonising or explaining a sin is not what is a problem - it's taking judgement into your own hands.

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"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
---The Bible

Calling it "God's Judgement" is just an excuse. HUMANS wrote the Bible, and extensively edited it during the dark ages to suit their own personal gain. Hating gays because God supposedly said so is akin to this:

"You're a big bad doodyhead an you deserve a be punished!"
"Oh really? Says who?"
"Says... says... says my Daddy, that's who! Phhht!"

Kat

Jensa said:

Funny thing is, Aqualung, the things you mentioned are in the 10 Commandments. Either they've been modified or homosexuality isn't on there. Not everything is black and white.

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Yes. The things I mentioned are in the ten commandments. They come so easily to my mind. Would you like some of the other, just as obvious things, too? Fine, then.
Pay your tithes. Don't eat meat offered to an idol if it makes you brother nervous. Whatever you do, do it in the name of Jesus. Trust in the Lord your God. Exhort one another daily, so you don't go astray. Preach the Gospel. Pray to God all the time. Don't store up treasures on earth in place of treasures in heaven. Be baptised. Hate what is evil, and seek to do that which is good. Be kind. Don't be lazy. Love your enemy, don't curse him, and don't return evil with evil. Subject yourself to God.
(Gosh, I hope that's enough. I woudn't want anybody to think that all the things they need to live righteously by are found soley in the ten commandments.)

I don't see how someone who is gay cannot do all those things.

IndigoChild said:

There is not a single "Law of God" that humans have not used God as an excuse for breaking. Let's examine the ten commandments, shall we? (Starting with the biggest ones)
"1. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
Anyone who is obsessed with celebrities, or is excessively greedy, or believe in Satan (Satan is, after all the Christian God of Evil. If he weren't a God, how else could he thwart God?) break this rule. Anyone who considers their leaders - whether religious or secular - as infallable is breaking this rule, because how can anyone but God be infallable?

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Okay. I guess sometimes I think about things more than I think about God. But what do I do at the end of the day? Ask forgiveness. And then try to turn away. That's the main difference. I also don't think my "leaders" are infallible.

IndigoChild said:

"2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain."

Aside from "God dammit" and "Jesus Christ," being spoken as curse words, anyone who prays to God for something selfish is breaking this rule. Anyone who uses references to Jesus or God to sway public opinion (like Bush does) or uses God to justify wars and killing is taking God's name in vain.

Click to expand...

I always try to remember to preface what I ask for with "if it is your will" or end it with "Your will be done." I don't sway public opinion with references to God.

IndigoChild said:

"3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them."
Art, anyone?

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Art only counts if you are going to use it as an idol. (context, you know) I don't make graven images of anyting to worship. I don't even direct my worship toward images of Jesus.

IndigoChild said:

"4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Since when was football, going out to eat, having a picnic, or watching TV ever "holy" to a Christian?

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I do a pretty good job of keeping the Sabbath day holy, if I do say so myself. I read scriptures, spend a lot of time with my family, since I don't get to see them much during the day, go to church, listen to nice music, and enrich my mind other ways. If I don't, I generally ask God for forgivness and that I may remember to next week and have the strength to resist the temptations of whatching TV, or whatever.

IndigoChild said:

"5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long."

LOL!

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Yeah. I'm pretty bad at that one, too. But, once again, the main difference is I ask God for forgiveness, and the strenght to honour them next time, no matter how dumb it is.

IndigoChild said:

"6. Thou shalt not kill."

Killing in the name of God is still killing.

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Well, I've never killed anyone. And I think that if you are killing in the name of God, and it actually was God-ordered, not just someone saying it is, that it isn't a isn.

IndigoChild said:

"8. Thou shalt not steal."

Stealing for one's country (invading a country for their oil, and so on) is still stealing.

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I'm not stealing anybody's oil, and I don't think Bush is either, since obviously that's who you are critisizing.

IndigoChild said:

"9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

False accusations are made so often, it is not funny. The sheer number of people put in jail and having their lives ruined from this is overwhelming.

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I also try never to lie. If I do, once again I ask for forgivness and try to not do it again, which is pretty much the deciding factor in this debate.

IndigoChild said:

I won't even go into how childish some of these rules are, nor into how childish one has to be to only behave because of fear of punishment. Me, I behave because it's right to behave, not because I fear being eternally spanked on my wee bottom for my naughty naughtyness.

Kat

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Good for you. Too bad more people don't do that as well. As for me, I obey because I love God and try therefore to follow all his commandments