Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
The reason I ask is that parts of the Bible seem to suggest that if you go against what you believe to be right on the inside you're going against the Holy Spirit.
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Is the Holy Spirit your own conscience?
- Thread starter Rainbow Mage
- Start date
Spiffy
Spiffy
How do you mean this? Against the Holy Spirit's wish (assuming what you believe to be "right" is correct) or are you suggesting the Holy Spirit indwells the human spirit and that sin grieves this indwelling Spirit?
Which verses suggest this to you?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I don't think the Holy Spirit is your conscience, but I think it's the means by which God communicates to your conscience.
Huh. I was always under the impression that the conscience was built in to all humans (assuming God as Creator here) as our morality-o-meter. No Spirit needed per se. Your suggestion makes the conscience sound more like the receiver end of a communication device, rather than a fully functioning device.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I think the human conscience is kind of hard to explain, and I probably didn't do a very good job of it. I believe that the conscience is a "fully functioning device," and I definitely don't think it's the Holy Ghost. But I do believe that when we're in tune, so to speak, with the Holy Ghost, He can guide us through promptings that our conscience can pick up on. (I don't think I did a much better job that time.
)
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
bump*
Muffled
Jesus in me
The conscience is a combination of one's spirit and the information in the psyche from parents and society in general.
As such it can be contrary to the will of God.
Paul says this: Ac 23:1 And Paul, looking stedfastly on the council, said, Brethren, I have lived before God in all good conscience until this day.
The fact that he had to qualify his conscience as good means that a conscience can also be bad.
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Yosef the Heretic,
The reason that the Bible seems to state about the conscience as being almost like the Holy Spirit is because the conscience is supposed to be trained according to God's word.
Many people believe that the heart is an indicator, to an individual, of what is the right course to take. This too is false unless the heart is train in God's word. Notice how the Bible warns about listening to the heart, Jere 17:9, Prov 28:26. The Bible says to trust in God with all our heart. This means to study God's word to find out what is acceptable to Him, Prov 3:5,6, John 17:3, Rom 12:2, Phil 1:9-11. Consider how Hebrews says that our consciences must be trained to distinguish both right and wrong, Heb 5:14.
So, by these dcriptures we can determine that we can trust what we believe on the inside, ONLY if we have an accurate knowledge of God's will.
It is suicide to trust in men, because even if they think they are right, they are usually wrong, if they do not listen to the Holy Scriptures, Jere 10:23, Ps 146:3,4, Mark 7:6-9,13.
It is informative to learn that the Bible says that the very inclination of the heart of man is bad from his youth up, Gen 8:21. The reason for this is; we are imperfect, and this world is ruled by Satan, who is misleading the entire world of mankind, John 14:30, Luke 4:5-8, 1John 5:19, Rev 12:9. Remember, God's people are NOT part of this world, John 18:36,37, John 15:18-20, 17:14, James 4:4.
God's word, The Bible is the only thing in this world that we can have complete trust in, John 17:17, 1Pet 1:25, Rom 1:16.
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Yousef the Heretic,
Just because people do not kill others who disobey God's law does not have anything to do with humanity, it has to do with GOD'S LAWS.
Under the Mosaic Law Code, any person caught in sexual conduct outside marriage was to be stoned, unless she was not promised to another man, then they were to be married, Deut 22:23-29. Any act of a homosexual kind was to be looked on as obscene and both were to be killed, without fail, Lev 20:13.
Jesus, on the night before his death, instituted THE NEW COVENANT, Luke 22:20, 1Cor 11:25. This NEW COVENANT is the one that Jeremiah prophesied about at Jere 31:31-34. The Mosaic Law Covenant was not to last forever, but only until the Messiah would come, Jesus Christ. Paul quoted from Jeremiah at Heb 8:6-12. Jesus would give his life to free mankind from the Law of Sin and death, The Mosaic Law Covenant. Everyone who remained under the Mosaic Law remained under a CURSE, the curse of Sin and the consequinces, death, Gal 3:10-13, 21-25, Rom 6:23. Paul also mentioned the New Covenant at Heb 10:16-18. Notice that Paul says that the Mosaic Law Code is now OBSOLETE, because the New Covenant that Jeremiah prophesied about had superceded it, Heb 8:13, 2Cor 3:3, 6-14.
Not person could be completely forgiven of sins under the Mosaic Law Covenant, because it was based on the blood of goats and bulls, Heb 7:25, 10:11, Acts 13:33-39. The New Covenant was based on the blood of Jesus Christ, Heb 9:11-15, 23-28. Notice that the scriptures say the Law Code was done away with by nailing the Code to the stake with Jesus, Col 2:13,14, Acts 2:23.
Muffled
Jesus in me
As much as this may be true in Christ, sin is still sin and still leads to death for those who practice it. Now we are under the law in Christ which means that the old law has not completely gone away since God was the author of it, in the beginning. If Jesus chooses not to kill adulterers, it is simply because He is being merciful. However He can choose to revert back to judgement in the last days. Since government is not formulated by God's will in a time of wickedness, the judgement is more apt to take the form of disasters.
Muffled
Jesus in me
The melding of the mind of the body with the mind of the spirit is accomplished with a receptor in the brain. God has ordained that this receptor be opened only to the spirit He assigns to it, however physical accidents and drugs can lead to an opening of the receptor to all spirits. This is the cause of Multiple Personaiity Disorder, since many spirits (each having its own peronality) can attach to the receptor. The Holy Spirit is connected through the indwelling (connected) spirit because spirits can communicate with other spirits.
logician
Well-Known Member
Nice theory, what's your evidence to support it?:sleep:
dogsgod
Well-Known Member
And bats fly out of my butt every time I fart.
The problem is religion. The Bible declares the Spirit of truth is the only source of truth; but the vast majority of Christians follow religion, orthodoxy, creeds, dogmas. They lost their first love.
Revelation 2:4
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Our conscience is the same as our spirit; problem is religious has lost their first love. The natural man has no spiritual vision and it is all foolishness.
We as humans use our brain to seek truth; but our essence is spiritual mind within us is where God is. You all want to understand God, see God, hear God; then stop using your brain of dust, and use your spirit with in you.
Revelation 2:4
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Our conscience is the same as our spirit; problem is religious has lost their first love. The natural man has no spiritual vision and it is all foolishness.
We as humans use our brain to seek truth; but our essence is spiritual mind within us is where God is. You all want to understand God, see God, hear God; then stop using your brain of dust, and use your spirit with in you.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Basically it is putting one and one together to make two.
Fact: A physical bump on the head has been known to produce schizophrenia (This is the scientific understanding which attributes everything to the physical mind). However hearing a spirit speak is not limited to people who find it mentally disturbing and those who are not able to cope with it. There has to be a reason for the difference. The person who has had a physical change has no control over what he hears while the person who has not been changed physically does have control over what he hears.
Fact: In the Bible God says He breathes in a life into the body and it becomes a soul.
That means that a spirit can't just automatically attach itself (as is often thought to be the case by eastern philosophers). God does not breathe life into any other animal so it appears there is a physical difference that prevents that from happening. That somewhat figures along the line of God creating chickens with the ability to bear eggs. He produces physical anatomical parts that go together for this to happen. God creates the spirit first and then the physical body and a way to attach to it because that was His intention.
Fact: Do a frontal lobotomy and the person becomes a physical being without a spirit or the soulless. Sometimes electric shock produces the same result. For the spirit to be resident the physical receptor has to be in working order. I have seen these zombie like creatures first hand having worked at a mental institution.
Fact: Eastern mysticism places the third eye at the frontal lobe of the brain.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Maybe you could post a picture. I am open minded but I haven't ever seen any evidence that it has happened before to anyone else.
logician
Well-Known Member
Spiffy
Spiffy
Here's how it works: The atheist designs the arena into which theists are allowed to participate. There's only one simple rule: only matter is real. The atheist then sits back and in response to all questions concerning spiritual matters and concepts, asks repeatedly (as our friend logician has shown), "Where's your evidence?" This way, the atheist always wins. He has created the only rules, and all talk of spiritual reality is automatically excluded. Circularity squared. Straw man all the way.
While the Christian (indeed, many theists of different stripes) marvels at a creation in which prescriptive reality is separate from the material universe (it is intuited inwardly, the latter perceived outwardly)--where God by design conceals value from fact, while weaving it maddeningly throughout matter nonetheless--the atheist finds comfort in his material universe. Jesus alluded in metaphor that hiding in matter (where we can hide in the 'shade' in time....no ought from is, i.e., no morality or sin in matter) is inevitably fruitless: "Then they will begin TO SAY TO THE MOUNTAINS, ‘FALL ON US,’ AND TO THE HILLS, ‘COVER US.’" (Luke 23:30) (see also Rev 6:16) Jesus seems to hint that there comes a day when we will no longer be able to hide in matter, when we'll all face the furnace of God's pure holiness.