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What is God ?

Dayv

Member
well, it does to me. I would lay down my life for just about anyone I know, and I'm sure if I ever find the right girl, I would do the same for her in a flash, but to then expect her to be obedient to me is (IMO) insane and sexist. I'm sure there are many women who would give their lives for their man too, so... (that analogy really makes me angry so I'm just going to get off it)
Just because someone supposedly does something good for you doesn't mean that from there on out you should do exactly as they say. So because god supposedly saved us from death now everything he does is benevolent? I know of a lot of bad people that are quite capable of good deeds. And if god is anywhere near as wise as he is credited to be, don't you think he would have figured out that if you're good to people they'll be more likely to do exactly as you tell them?
 

Sabio

Active Member
Dayv said:
don't you think he would have figured out that if you're good to people they'll be more likely to do exactly as you tell them?
Well that is where our religious beliefs differ Dayv, I believe God is (has been, will be) good to people, and apparently you do not.

Sabio
 
michel--

I'm sorry if I've offended you.....I think you're a great person, and I enjoy reading your posts. I'm not trying to "win" an argument here....I'm simply expressing my thoughts.....which is difficult, because my views sometimes challenge the views of those who have a strong emotional investment in their beliefs (and there's nothing wrong with that at all). I should try to be more tactful. :eek:

michel said:
maybe I do, maybe I don't - I honestly don't know; maybe a Religious belief, perceived by someone who demands proof is something that that person will never be able to comprehend..........
To be fair, I don't think I'm failing to comprehend anything....you (and others) imply (in other discussions) that god has a plan for people, that He communicates with people, that he has certain powers, etc., and so those characteristics should be included in any definition of 'god'. Thus far, statements about god being incomprehensible have failed to do so, and thus they fall short of very meaningful definitions. I comprehend the situation just fine, as far as I can tell.

michel said:
As to your...."I think the most important thing to establish is: do you believe in a personal or an impersonal god? In other words, does your god have morals, thoughts, feelings, self-awareness (personal), or is your god more of an unthinking, uncaring (yet still venerable) powerful "force" (impersonal)?"................

a) I believe in God
b) I have no idea as to his qualities save those that he taught the world through his son, Jesus Christ.
c) I need to know no more
The purpose of this thread is to discuss "What is God?" If the above three points are the extent to which you wish to participate, that is perfectly fine; otherwise, how about expanding upon b) ? What qualities do you believe god taught the world through his son, Jesus Christ? This seems to me to be a worthwhile area to explore since, as I said, the topic of this thread is "What is God?" :)

michel said:
I must admit that I find this "I refuse to believe in anything without it being evidenced, measured, described to the last detail' a sad trait in Life ;
I think it's sad that you refuse to believe in quigglyploofs. Just because they can't be placed under a microscope and defined with a dictionary doesn't mean they aren't there you know. :bonk:

michel said:
How can I describe to you, for example, my attachment to an old broken watch of my fathers, that I have as a keepsake ? - it's illogical, but it gives me pleasure. Multiply that a million times, and maybe you can begin to understand my relationship with God.
I don't think I'm having trouble understanding your relationship with your god. It is not logical to believe in your god, but you choose to believe in your god because it gives you pleasure. That's fine...I think I understand it perfectly well.....I used to be Christian once too, remember.
 

Ryan2065

Well-Known Member
Sabio said:
Everyone...
Good thing god's good to everyone... At least he never ordered anyone to take back the holy land or anything like that... Oh right, the crusades didn't work out so they wern't really god's will. Just like the Vietnam war didn't work out so it wasn't really a war.
 

Sabio

Active Member
Ryan2065 said:
Good thing god's good to everyone... At least he never ordered anyone to take back the holy land or anything like that... Oh right, the crusades didn't work out so they wern't really god's will. Just like the Vietnam war didn't work out so it wasn't really a war.
Ryan,

Perhaps one of our Jewish friends could speak to God's directions to the Jews to occupy the Holy Land? (OT)

Sabio
 

matey

Member
I think God is everything. If God created everything, then He would have to be everything, or everything would have to be a part of Him. Physical, mental, spiritual. The Earth, stars, bugs, people, apple cobbler, or even a "Quiggleypoof". Satan, history, the future, et cetera and ad nauseam.
And what we do within His creation will bring us closer or take us further from Him.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Dayv said:
but going into a marriage (at least a healthy one), two are equal, one does not worship the other and do exactly as they command without question (again, in a healthy one), etc etc.

oh, and michel, even hitler and satan have their books, it really isn't that special.
For crying out loud! are you honestly going to compare Hitler or Satan with God, or with Jesus Christ ?...............................The message of the Bible is a testimony, written by many different devout followers. Please, even you must be able to understand that that comment of yours is verging on the downright insulting, to a Christian.:areyoucra
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Mr_Spinkles said:
michel--

I'm sorry if I've offended you.....I think you're a great person, and I enjoy reading your posts. I'm not trying to "win" an argument here....I'm simply expressing my thoughts.....which is difficult, because my views sometimes challenge the views of those who have a strong emotional investment in their beliefs (and there's nothing wrong with that at all). I should try to be more tactful. :eek:

To be fair, I don't think I'm failing to comprehend anything....you (and others) imply (in other discussions) that god has a plan for people, that He communicates with people, that he has certain powers, etc., and so those characteristics should be included in any definition of 'god'. Thus far, statements about god being incomprehensible have failed to do so, and thus they fall short of very meaningful definitions. I comprehend the situation just fine, as far as I can tell.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss "What is God?" If the above three points are the extent to which you wish to participate, that is perfectly fine; otherwise, how about expanding upon b) ? What qualities do you believe god taught the world through his son, Jesus Christ? This seems to me to be a worthwhile area to explore since, as I said, the topic of this thread is "What is God?" :)

I think it's sad that you refuse to believe in quigglyploofs. Just because they can't be placed under a microscope and defined with a dictionary doesn't mean they aren't there you know. :bonk:

I don't think I'm having trouble understanding your relationship with your god. It is not logical to believe in your god, but you choose to believe in your god because it gives you pleasure. That's fine...I think I understand it perfectly well.....I used to be Christian once too, remember.
Hey, you haven't offended me - not really; I was probably having an 'off day' - I know I can be a bit oversensitive from time to time - it's not you, it's me.

As for a definition of God, I can offer no more than I have. The love of a mother for her new born child is something we all evidence - can you define that - can you get into the mindset of the woman ? I doubt it.

Say you have a headache; can you define a headache so that your exact definition will satisfy every one in the world ? - the intensity - draw a scale, defined with some form of measurment of the exact amount of pain ? - of course you can't - just as I cannot define, in terms that will suffice a scientist, God.

"b) ? What qualities do you believe god taught the world through his son, Jesus Christ?"

I can do no better than to quote an excerpt from: http://www.wcg.org/lit/God/godis1.htm

"But perhaps you might want to ask God about himself: Who are you? Or, what are you? Or, what do you want?
God's answer to such basic questions would actually go a long way toward answering other questions. Who and what God is, what God wants – these are aspects of God's nature. And the nature of God underlies everything else – why the universe is the way it is, who we are as humans, why our lives are the way they are, and what we should be doing with our time. Has anyone ever lived who didn't puzzle – at least a little – over such profound questions?
We humans can begin to grasp the answers. We can begin to understand the nature of God. Believe it or not, we can even come to share in that divine nature. How? Through God's will and revelation of himself.
That is the subject of this booklet – what we can know about God, at least a little bit. Thinkers throughout history have viewed God in different ways. But God reveals himself to us – through his creation, through his Word, and through his Son, Jesus Christ. God shows us who and what he is, what he does, and even a lot about why he does what he does. He also tells us how we should relate to him now – and how we will relate to him ultimately.
Philosophers discuss the nature of God, but this booklet is not based on philosophy. It is based on the Bible, which God uses to reveal himself to us. We accept the Scriptures as an authoritative source of information about who and what God is. This booklet is written for people who want to know what the Bible says about God. Those who want a more philosophical approach, or those who are more skeptical of biblical authority, will need to turn elsewhere, although they may find this booklet of interest, as well.
The book of Isaiah tells us that God reveals himself to people who are humble and repentant, to those who respect God's Word (Isaiah 66:2).
Jesus said, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him" (John 14:23). God wants to make his home with us. When God does, our questions will begin to be more fully answered."
Now, the bit in red has me completely perplexed - I honestly can't see the bit where I said I didn't believe in quigglyploofs; besides, I don't even know what they are.:)
 
michel said:
As for a definition of God, I can offer no more than I have. The love of a mother for her new born child is something we all evidence - can you define that - can you get into the mindset of the woman ? I doubt it.

Say you have a headache; can you define a headache so that your exact definition will satisfy every one in the world ? - the intensity - draw a scale, defined with some form of measurment of the exact amount of pain ? - of course you can't - just as I cannot define, in terms that will suffice a scientist, God.
The feelings that a mother experiences when she loves her newborn are one thing; what causes those feelings is quite another. In terms of biology, the "love" that the human mother experiences is associated with a strong social bond formed between a mammal and her young whom she must rear. There are all sorts of biological, behavioral, and neurological observations one could make to characterize the phenomenon. The same goes for headaches, or for the senses that sharks which detect electrical impulses. I may not know what it "feels like" to be a shark and to use electrical impulses to locate prey, but the shark's incredible sense exists nevertheless, and it is possible to determine its existence empirically--even understand how it works and what causes it.

I do not doubt that you experience intense feelings of euphoria, awe, comfort, etc. which you associate with your concept of "god". I simply do not think that those feelings have a supernatural cause (namely, a conscious entity who impregnates virgins and reveals truths to the faithful). Do you define god as the experience, rather than the cause of the experience (leaving the cause of the experience to science and/or the unknown)? Otherwise, I do not think there is any reason you should not be able to define what it is you believe to be the cause.

michel said:
"b) ? What qualities do you believe god taught the world through his son, Jesus Christ?"

I can do no better than to quote an excerpt from: http://www.wcg.org/lit/God/godis1.htm

"But perhaps you might want to ask God about himself: Who are you? Or, what are you? Or, what do you want?
God's answer to such basic questions would actually go a long way toward answering other questions. Who and what God is, what God wants – these are aspects of God's nature. And the nature of God underlies everything else – why the universe is the way it is, who we are as humans, why our lives are the way they are, and what we should be doing with our time. Has anyone ever lived who didn't puzzle – at least a little – over such profound questions?
We humans can begin to grasp the answers. We can begin to understand the nature of God. Believe it or not, we can even come to share in that divine nature. How? Through God's will and revelation of himself.
That is the subject of this booklet – what we can know about God, at least a little bit. Thinkers throughout history have viewed God in different ways. But God reveals himself to us – through his creation, through his Word, and through his Son, Jesus Christ. God shows us who and what he is, what he does, and even a lot about why he does what he does. He also tells us how we should relate to him now – and how we will relate to him ultimately.
Philosophers discuss the nature of God, but this booklet is not based on philosophy. It is based on the Bible, which God uses to reveal himself to us. We accept the Scriptures as an authoritative source of information about who and what God is. This booklet is written for people who want to know what the Bible says about God. Those who want a more philosophical approach, or those who are more skeptical of biblical authority, will need to turn elsewhere, although they may find this booklet of interest, as well.
The book of Isaiah tells us that God reveals himself to people who are humble and repentant, to those who respect God's Word (Isaiah 66:2).
Jesus said, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him" (John 14:23). God wants to make his home with us. When God does, our questions will begin to be more fully answered."
That's a good introduction, but I'm afraid it does not answer the question asked. "What qualities [about Himself] do you believe God taught the world through his son, Jesus Christ?" There is no way to tell from the text you quoted whether your god has consciousness, supernatural powers, a plan for people, a favorite color, etc. :)

michel said:
Now, the bit in red has me completely perplexed - I honestly can't see the bit where I said I didn't believe in quigglyploofs; besides, I don't even know what they are.
They're incomprehensible; if I could describe them to you, they wouldn't be quigglyploofs. I sure hope you believe in them....it would be sad if you dismissed them just because they can't be put in a test tube. :p
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Mr_Spinkles said:
The feelings that a mother experiences when she loves her newborn are one thing; what causes those feelings is quite another. In terms of biology, the "love" that the human mother experiences is associated with a strong social bond formed between a mammal and her young whom she must rear. There are all sorts of biological, behavioral, and neurological observations one could make to characterize the phenomenon. The same goes for headaches, or for the senses that sharks which detect electrical impulses. I may not know what it "feels like" to be a shark and to use electrical impulses to locate prey, but the shark's incredible sense exists nevertheless, and it is possible to determine its existence empirically--even understand how it works and what causes it.

I do not doubt that you experience intense feelings of euphoria, awe, comfort, etc. which you associate with your concept of "god". I simply do not think that those feelings have a supernatural cause (namely, a conscious entity who impregnates virgins and reveals truths to the faithful). Do you define god as the experience, rather than the cause of the experience (leaving the cause of the experience to science and/or the unknown)? Otherwise, I do not think there is any reason you should not be able to define what it is you believe to be the cause.

That's a good introduction, but I'm afraid it does not answer the question asked. "What qualities [about Himself] do you believe God taught the world through his son, Jesus Christ?" There is no way to tell from the text you quoted whether your god has consciousness, supernatural powers, a plan for people, a favorite color, etc. :)







They're incomprehensible; if I could describe them to you, they wouldn't be quigglyploofs. I sure hope you believe in them....it would be sad if you dismissed them just because they can't be put in a test tube. :p

The more I look at your questions, the more I become confused - that isn't an excuse - it is a fact.

Suddenly, I find myself wanting to say "O.K, What would you say back to me if I said that God is comparable to a quigglyploof".I feel punch drunk - :D
 
michel said:
Suddenly, I find myself wanting to say "O.K, What would you say back to me if I said that God is comparable to a quigglyploof".I feel punch drunk -
Hehehe, I would say you're right. :)
 
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