Religious Tolerance -- Too much of a good thing?

Sabio · Aug 1, 2005

corrupt_preist said:
ok, i could argue on the grounds of miss translations, but i dont hink it would stand up to this crowd - you got me on that one Knockout

but islam is generally a message of love

and so is christianity

but if someone was handing out free Qurans in my church id take one willingly to have a read of it

Corrupt,

You "should" read and understand the world views of others, it helps to strengthen your own beliefs.

Sabio

DreamQuickBook · Aug 1, 2005

corrupt_preist said:
but islam is generally a message of love

and so is christianity

but if someone was handing out free Qurans in my church id take one willingly to have a read of it

First of all, I suppose that depends on your definition of love. Secondly, I have made a read of nearly every religious scripture I could get my hands on. Most of them are written in the same spirit; but they have differing worldviews.

michel · Aug 1, 2005

Jocose said:
First of all, I suppose that depends on your definition of love. Secondly, I have made a read of nearly every religious scripture I could get my hands on. Most of them are written in the same spirit; but they have differing worldviews.

"Love" is "Love" to me; I'm not too sure what you mean by the definition.

Sabio · Aug 1, 2005

Jocose said:
First of all, I suppose that depends on your definition of love. Secondly, I have made a read of nearly every religious scripture I could get my hands on. Most of them are written in the same spirit; but they have differing worldviews.

Jocose, I thought you were on the right track earlier today with the distinctions you were drawing between the Qu'ran and the Bible. How can you now say that they were "written in the same spirit"?

A "different worldview" results from the influence of a "different spirit".

Sabio

Sabio · Aug 1, 2005

michel said:
"Love" is "Love" to me; I'm not too sure what you mean by the definition.

Michel,

The love that Jesus taught is called "Agape" in Greek, this is love with divine origin.

This is much different from human love which is called "eros" of "philia" in greek, from these we get the erotic forms of love or feelings.

A more detailed explanation can be read at: http://www.pbministries.org/articles/cook/christian_love.htm

So all love is not the same. According to the Bible.

Would somebody like to tell me how many times in the Qu'ran that God tells his followers that he loves them? Or quote a passage?

Sabio

DreamQuickBook · Aug 1, 2005

Sabio said:
Jocose, I thought you were on the right track earlier today with the distinctions you were drawing between the Qu'ran and the Bible. How can you now say that they were "written in the same spirit"?

A "different worldview" results from the influence of a "different spirit".

Sabio

Well, by "spirit", I mean that they were written in accordance with certain moral principles which are intended to create civility and order within their culture, which is governed by their worldview. Christians and Muslims do not, in my opinion, worship the same God. Neither do Christians and Jews. In my opinion, the difference between the Jewish God (the god of the old testament) and the Christian God (the god of the New testament) are two totally different gods. Obviously, the argument can be made that it was not God who changed, but his convenant (relationship) with Man, but that distinction, to me, is a small one; and not one of great importance. Why should a divine God change? However, I would say they are two different versions of the same God, connected only by a shared mythology (or scripture). However, Islam is set itself up as antagonistic toward Christians and Jews; how you could be so antagonistic toward followers of the same god, I do not know.

DreamQuickBook · Aug 1, 2005

Sabio said:
So all love is not the same. According to the Bible.

I agree totally. The kind of love I practice is conditional and deliberate. I love my family and friends, and to a lesser extent the people in my community and my countrymen. Others are strangers. I neither love nor hate a stranger until they give me reason to. So, yes, there are different kinds of love.

Sabio · Aug 1, 2005

Jocose said:
Well, by "spirit", I mean that they were written in accordance with certain moral principles which are intended to create civility and order within their culture, which is governed by their worldview. Christians and Muslims do not, in my opinion, worship the same God. Neither do Christians and Jews. In my opinion, the difference between the Jewish God (the god of the old testament) and the Christian God (the god of the New testament) are two totally different gods. Obviously, the argument can be made that it was not God who changed, but his convenant (relationship) with Man, but that distinction, to me, is a small one; and not one of great importance. Why should a divine God change? However, I would say they are two different versions of the same God, connected only by a shared mythology (or scripture). However, Islam is set itself up as antagonistic toward Christians and Jews; how you could be so antagonistic toward followers of the same god, I do not know.

I agree with you that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. But I disagree that Jews and Christians so not worship the same God. Christianity is based on the New Testament of the Bible, most if not all of the human authors of the New Testament referenced the God of the Old Testament, and all of them were Jews!

Sabio

DreamQuickBook · Aug 1, 2005

Sabio said:
I agree with you that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. But I disagree that Jews and Christians so not worship the same God. Christianity is based on the New Testament of the Bible, most if not all of the human authors of the New Testament referenced the God of the Old Testament, and all of them were Jews!

Sabio

Ah, but you know as well as I, that the Jews still worship "God" under the old covenant. The Christians worship "God" under the new covenant. Is it possible for one God to have two separate covenants with two groups of people?

michel · Aug 1, 2005

Sabio said:
Michel,

The love that Jesus taught is called "Agape" in Greek, this is love with divine origin.

This is much different from human love which is called "eros" of "philia" in greek, from these we get the erotic forms of love or feelings.

A more detailed explanation can be read at: http://www.pbministries.org/articles/cook/christian_love.htm

So all love is not the same. According to the Bible.

Would somebody like to tell me how many times in the Qu'ran that God tells his followers that he loves them? Or quote a passage?

Sabio

Well, thanks for the link - I 'm a linkafolic..

Obviously, I assumed we were talking love as in Religious Adoration type Love . After all, this is what this forum is about........

Sabio · Aug 1, 2005

Jocose said:
Ah, but you know as well as I, that the Jews still worship "God" under the old covenant. The Christians worship "God" under the new covenant. Is it possible for one God to have two separate covenants with two groups of people?

Jocose,

Yes! Because the Old Covenant was fulfilled (thus completed, like the completion of a contract) by Jesus who established the New Covenant, that we should live by the New Covenant going forward. I believe that the Jews (today) are trying to work with God (same God as Christians) under an expired contract!

Sabio

Sabio · Aug 1, 2005

michel said:
Well, thanks for the link - I 'm a linkafolic..

Obviously, I assumed we were talking love as in Religious Adoration type Love . After all, this is what this forum is about........

Exactly Michel! But as you know all religions do not worship a Diety, therefore when they are talking about "love" they are not talking about the same love (divine from God) that we as Christians refer to.

Sabio

kreeden · Aug 1, 2005

Katzpur said:
But this article went on to say that, included in our donation, were 700 copies of the Koran, which were delivered to mosques in the area.

Good for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints .

Now it is a hard question . Does one undermine the message of the Bible if they give out the writings of other religions . Perhaps , to a degree ? But I think that in the bigger picture , it has a message all of it's own . That Christians can respect other religions .

DreamQuickBook · Aug 1, 2005

kreeden said:
That Christians can respect other religions .

Can they? I know they can respect people of other religions, but can they really respect other religions? According to the Bible, there is only one way to God, and that is through Jesus Christ. How can Christians respect other religions who practice the way of Satan by trying to find paths to Heaven that are not through Jesus Christ?

michel · Aug 1, 2005

Jocose said:
Can they? I know they can respect people of other religions, but can they really respect other religions? According to the Bible, there is only one way to God, and that is through Jesus Christ. How can Christians respect other religions who practice the way of Satan by trying to find paths to Heaven that are not through Jesus Christ?

Well I do, and I count myself as a Christian;

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

kreeden · Aug 1, 2005

Jocose said:
Can they? I know they can respect people of other religions, but can they really respect other religions?

Well , what I mean was the people of other religions , and their will to worship those religions .

Sorry for not being clear on that .

DreamQuickBook · Aug 1, 2005

michel said:
Well I do, and I count myself as a Christian;

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

And what does judge not mean? Does that mean that religious truth is relative? If you, as a Christian, are not allowed to make judgments about moral questions.

Melody · Aug 1, 2005

corrupt_preist said:
erm, islam is worshipping the same God as christians - islam accepts jesus christ as a prophet, and his followers (primerily the writters of the gospels) also, they just dont see him as being the only way to GodC_P

CP,
I'm finding that it all comes down to which version of "christian" you are. Islam says Jesus is a prophet. Christianity says He is God. Then again, there are those who call themselves Christian who believe He was just a good man.

If you believe He is God, then handing out Qurans which say He was just a prophet is at the very least contradictory.

If you believe He was just a man, then it doesn't matter.

Melody · Aug 1, 2005

corrupt_preist said:
but if someone was handing out free Qurans in my church id take one willingly to have a read of it

I have a Quran also...but not because I believe what it says. I like to know about others beliefs....but if someone asked me about God, I'd hand them the Bible...not the Quran.

Sabio · Aug 1, 2005

Jocose said:
And what does judge not mean? Does that mean that religious truth is relative? If you, as a Christian, are not allowed to make judgments about moral questions.

Jocose,

My Bible says we Christians should be able top judge where God's "determined will" is already outlined in the Bible.

Proverbs 31:9
Open your mouth, judge righteously, And plead the cause of the poor and needy.

Sabio

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