Do we all worship the same God?

Katzpur said:

So, Melody... What would your definition of a Christian be?

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My definition of Christian is someone who believes Christ is the human manifestation of God who sacrified Himself to atone for the sins of mankind. That belief, along with repentance and God's Grace is needed for salvation. I base this on the Bible.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:6

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
1 Timothy 2:5

Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved
Acts 4:12

That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

Katzpur said:

I agree that there are many individuals who see Jesus Christ as a good man and nothing more should probably not be called "Christians," but I don't think most of them really would want to be called "Christians" either. But if someone seriously considers himself to be a Christian, I don't feel as if it's my place to say that he's not. Do you agree or disagree? Just curious.

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Well actually....I do not agree. I believe it is every christians place to correct a brother or sister who has strayed and is trying to make God over in their own image. Again, I base this on the bible.

Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
2 Timothy 4:2

but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Hebrews 3:13

Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you,[a] rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:3

It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise. Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:5

Jensen said:

Christian means to be a follower of Christ. That is really what the word means. Doctrines of Christianity vary, and some followers of Christ (Christians, see below) do not believe that Jesus is God, but that he is the Son of God. They are still believers and followers of Christ. They are not non-Christian because their beliefs differ on some things.

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Political correctness seem to be the order of the day where anybody can call themselves Christian and anyone who disagrees is considered "judgmental".

And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Acts 11:26

Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”
Acts 26:28

Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter
1 Peter 4:16

The disciples did not believe Jesus was "just a man". I'll follow their lead.

michel said:

Khan, that sounds almost as if you are saying that only true Christians will go to heaven - what about a devout, good, and moral Muslim ? - a Buddhist who has followed an exemplary life ?(Just to mention two - I could go on all day..)

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Michel,
The Bible tells us "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

By that definition, the Muslim, the Buddhist and others are not saved. Please don't ask me if that's fair or right. You'll have to ask God.

Katzpur said:

Of course not. He was addressing His Father in prayer. I don't know of anyone who prays to himself.

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Jesus was the human manifestation of God....fully God...fully human.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:10-11

Christians refused to call the emporors "Lord" because that was a title reserved for God and yet in this and other verses, they call Jesus "Lord".

And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
John 20:28

I don't find it difficult at all to understand that Jesus is God and prays to God. I accept on faith that God is capable of this and much more.

Melody said:

My definition of Christian is someone who believes Christ is the human manifestation of God who sacrified Himself to atone for the sins of mankind. That belief, along with repentance and God's Grace is needed for salvation. I base this on the Bible.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:6

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
1 Timothy 2:5

Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved
Acts 4:12

That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

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I would have to say that I'm pretty much in agreement with what you have said. Anything I might add to your definition would be, in my opinion, nitpicking.

Well actually....I do not agree. I believe it is every christians place to correct a brother or sister who has strayed and is trying to make God over in their own image. Again, I base this on the bible.

Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
2 Timothy 4:2

but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Hebrews 3:13

Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you,[a] rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:3

It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise. Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:5

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Hmmm. But none of these scriptures gives us the right to tell someone else (who believes himself to be a Christian) that he is not. The word "Christian" is never actually defined in the Bible. It is, in fact, only used two or three times. Things would be so much simpler if the Bible outlined in great detail every single solitary thing that a person must believe in order to be known as a Christian. Sure, it gives us guidelines and direction, but judging from the fact that there are well over 30,000 different "Christian" denominations in the world today, each and every one of them interpreting the Bible differently (to varying degrees, of course), where are you personally going to draw the line? Does a person have to have exactly the same understanding of all "Christian" doctrines as you do in order for you to be willing to concede that that person is a "Christian"?

I don't even know what Christian denomination you adhere to. Unless I'm mistaken, you consider yourself more-or-less a non-denominational Christian. Does the fact that Scott believes that the Pope is God's representative here on earth make him a "non-Christian"? Does my belief that God speaks to living prophets today make me a "non-Christian"? Do we need to share an identical understanding of the nature of God or of man's relationship to God in order to all be Christians? Is it possible to believe that baptism is an ordinance required by God and still be a Christian, or must you believe that it is purely a symbolic act and unnecessary in God's eyes? May a Christian believe that faith and works go hand in hand in terms of our salvation, or is that somehow a heretical notion?

In Mark 9:38, the Apostle John is recorded as having described an incident to Jesus. By all accounts, it appears that he is rather pleased with how he and the other Apostles handled the situation. He said:

"Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us."

But, in verses 39 and 40, Jesus answered him, saying, "Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part."

We as Christians must be united in sharing our testimony of our Savior instead of trying to exclude one another from what has turned into a kind of an exclusive little club. If we are for Jesus, we are Christians. Whatever happened to the idea of a Christian as being one who worships Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Savior of the world? The Bible is a lot clearer in its discussion of how a person must behave in order to be a Christian than it is in its explanation of what a person must do to be a Christian. We all need to remember that.

Kathryn

Melody said:

I don't find it difficult at all to understand that Jesus is God and prays to God. I accept on faith that God is capable of this and much more.

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I don't either. I just find it difficult to think that He was His own Father and/or was praying to Himself.

Melody said:

Michel,
The Bible tells us "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

By that definition, the Muslim, the Buddhist and others are not saved. Please don't ask me if that's fair or right. You'll have to ask God.

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I know - I will have to try and meditate on that one ; that is something I find hard to get to grips with. I find it so hard to accept something that sounds so 'unloving'.

michel said:

I know - I will have to try and meditate on that one ; that is something I find hard to get to grips with. I find it so hard to accept something that sounds so 'unloving'.

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Michel,

Of course it sounds unloving! It would be unloving -- if it were true. Which it isn't. God isn't going to turn the vast majority of His own children into eternal firewood simply because of an accident of birth. Nor is He going to simply ignore His own rules when His Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu children stand before Him on Judgment Day. There is a third option. The fact that it isn't spelled out in detail in the Bible makes it no less true.

Kathryn

Katzpur said:

Michel,

Of course it sounds unloving! It would be unloving -- if it were true. Which it isn't. God isn't going to turn the vast majority of His own children into eternal firewood simply because of an accident of birth. Nor is He going to simply ignore His own rules when His Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu children stand before Him on Judgment Day. There is a third option. The fact that it isn't spelled out in detail in the Bible makes it no less true.

Kathryn

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Oh heck! I'm getting back to the old "I'll choose and pick what I want to stick to in the Bible that I find hard to accept is the right thing to do " syndrome; still, as I said, and you have backed up with your feelings; I cannot see that God would spurn a truly good person from a different faith.......:shout

michel said:

Oh heck! I'm getting back to the old "I'll choose and pick what I want to stick to in the Bible that I find hard to accept is the right thing to do " syndrome; still, as I said, and you have backed up with your feelings; I cannot see that God would spurn a truly good person from a different faith.......:shout

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Well, Michael, I guess it gets down to this... If you believe that every single solitary "truth" God has ever wanted us to know of is found within the pages of the Bible, you pretty much do end up with a dilemma. According to the New Testament, what Melody is saying appears to be true: Millions of God's own children were born into this world with not a chance of ever being saved. It is also true that it is inappropriate for us to attempt to second-guess God and say how the system would work if we were in charge. From that standpoint, God (who supposedly loves us all) isn't really very "just." We can't base our beliefs on "feelings," because we know that our ways are not God's ways. But in accepting the fact that, while the Bible is God's word, it's not His only word (nor does it claim to be), a more complete understanding of His plan of salvation is made available to us. In my opinion, the biggest stumbling block we have is our tendency to tell God He has nothing more to say to us. We've got the Bible; it doesn't matter what else He may want us to know.

Katzpur said:

We According to the New Testament, what Melody is saying appears to be true: Millions of God's own children were born into this world with not a chance of ever being saved. It is also true that it is inappropriate for us to attempt to second-guess God and say how the system would work if we were in charge. From that standpoint, God (who supposedly loves us all) isn't really very "just."

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Millions of God's own children were born into this world with every chance at being saved. There is a verse in the bible that deals with those who have never heard about Christ and that they will be judged by what is in their hearts. I've often wondered if this meant that if they were raised Buddhist (for example) and never heard about Christ, whether they'd be judged by how well they lived according to their Buddhist beliefs.

I will admit to not knowing but believe God is a merciful God and will not condemn people for never hearing or for living before the time of Christ. I believe he will judge justly those who deliberately turn from His Word out of pride and arrogance.

Melody said:

Michel,
The Bible tells us "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

By that definition, the Muslim, the Buddhist and others are not saved. Please don't ask me if that's fair or right. You'll have to ask God.

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Well, there is a day where the truth will be clear and apparent to all of us, it's the day of judgement, where God will be our Just Judge. I am looking for that day and see who will be blessed by God's mercy and who will not. I just wonder what will be your reaction Melody if you come to know then that you are wrong?

Peace

Peace said:

I am looking for that day and see who will be blessed by God's mercy and who will not. I just wonder what will be your reaction Melody if you come to know then that you are wrong?

Peace

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Peace,
I will pose the same question to you. What will your reaction be if you find out that you are wrong?

If I die and find out I'm wrong, then my reaction will probably depend on whose religion is right and what their god says is the fate of unbelievers.

If the atheists are right, then I'll never know that I'm wrong.

Melody said:

Peace,
I will pose the same question to you. What will your reaction be if you find out that you are wrong?

If I die and find out I'm wrong, then my reaction will probably depend on whose religion is right and what their god says is the fate of unbelievers.

If the atheists are right, then I'll never know that I'm wrong.

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Frankly speaking Melody, I don't have the least doubt in my religion even 0.5 % , and I am sure that I am not on the wrong path. I am sure 100% that the teachings of Islam are true and that I believe in Prophet Jesus peace be upon him as God wants me to believe in him. I love Jesus and I believe in him as a true Prophet of God.

Peace be with you,
Peace

Melody said:

Peace,
I will pose the same question to you. What will your reaction be if you find out that you are wrong?

If I die and find out I'm wrong, then my reaction will probably depend on whose religion is right and what their god says is the fate of unbelievers.

If the atheists are right, then I'll never know that I'm wrong.

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Ah, but you've forgotten one svcenario, Melody. What will you have to say if you go to heaven, and find a Muslim sitting next to you ?

michel said:

Ah, but you've forgotten one svcenario, Melody. What will you have to say if you go to heaven, and find a Muslim sitting next to you ?

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Michel,

That is really not so strange. In many of the Muslim countries there is repression of Christianity, Islam is the state religion thus required by law. There are certainly believers in Jesus Christ in those countries who may display Islam on the outside but carry faith in Jesus as the Christ on the inside...

Sabio

Sabio said:

Michel,

That is really not so strange. In many of the Muslim countries there is repression of Christianity, Islam is the state religion thus required by law. There are certainly believers in Jesus Christ in those countries who may display Islam on the outside but carry faith in Jesus as the Christ on the inside...

Sabio

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I was pulling Melody's leg; maybe I sjould have used another religion, but I think she understood the point I am trying to make.

Peace said:

Frankly speaking Melody, I don't have the least doubt in my religion even 0.5 % , and I am sure that I am not on the wrong path. I am sure 100% that the teachings of Islam are true and that I believe in Prophet Jesus peace be upon him as God wants me to believe in him. I love Jesus and I believe in him as a true Prophet of God.

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Peace,
I also do not have the least doubt and am sure I am on the correct path. I am 100% sure that the teachings of Christianity are true and beliebe that Christ is God...just as He wishes me to believe.

michel said:

Ah, but you've forgotten one svcenario, Melody. What will you have to say if you go to heaven, and find a Muslim sitting next to you ?

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"So you *do* believe Christ is the only way to salvation!"

Peace said:

Frankly speaking Melody, I don't have the least doubt in my religion even 0.5 % , and I am sure that I am not on the wrong path. I am sure 100% that the teachings of Islam are true and that I believe in Prophet Jesus peace be upon him as God wants me to believe in him. I love Jesus and I believe in him as a true Prophet of God.

Peace be with you,
Peace

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Peace,

I am looking for a quote from the Qu'ran where Allah declares that he loves man or the followers of Islam, I've been using an online Qu'ran word search at: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchquran.html

Can you provide a verse or verses?

Thanks

Sabio