Classic Shamanism And Core Shamanism

One of the problems I have always had with calling myself Shamanic is the respect I have for the Classic Shaman { Traditional Shaman }. They are such , not because they are following a personal path , but because they are fullfilling a duty for their people .

There is a very good comparsion between the two here ... http://www.cauldronfarm.com/writing/shaman_compare.html

This brings up more then a few interesting questions . Do we have to define what Shamanism is ? Is being taught by the Spirits enough to call one's self a Shaman ? Is finding one's self enough ?

Sorry , but I can't figure out how to copy the two list here without having them run together into one paragraph .

kreeden said:

Do we have to define what Shamanism is ?

Click to expand...

Defining things certainly helps in communicating about the subject

kreeden said:

Is being taught by the Spirits enough to call one's self a Shaman ? Is finding one's self enough ?

Click to expand...

I'm going to say, No. In my opinion "shaman" is a title that is given to you, not by the spirits, but by the people you serve. Lots of people can and do practice shamanic thought and techniques, they journey and even get instruction from various beings....but they don't have a community that they serve. This to me means that they are Shamanic Practitioners, but are not Shamans.

And yes, I'm one of those that is a Shamanic Practitioner, but not a Shaman

Thank you for your views Vigdisdotter . Personally , I have always had a problem calling myself a Shaman for those very reasons .

So , how would you define " serving a community " ? Just wondering if teaching others would serve ? Not that I plan to start mind you . Guess that I'm just wondering where that line is that one crosses from being a Shamanic Practitioner to being a full Shaman ?

BTW , don't mind me . Like they say , a fool can ask more questions then a wise person can answer .... And I do have questions .

Perhaps to be a Shamanic Practitioner isn't about teaching others at all.
It's about helping your community in various ways of healing - mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically. If you strive to give aid when asked and if the people consider you to be a healer.. then you are "shaman" for those people. It doesn't matter about what outsiders think. IMO.
If you learn shamanic techniques and they work for you and others... that is the true goal. I have always leaned towards core shamanistic techniques as I have run into too many who wish to "feel" imposed upon because of declaring I know this or that from there or yonder. I do not ask for pay, though I may ask that they adhere to balance ( and I will leave that one where it is ). I do not make claims to teach and have never took on someone to do so. Most likely will never. The information is out there if you wish to hunt for it as part of your journey. * smiles *

I have always held that the problem comes with claiming a particular Nation as your tradition when you haven't been through the "classic" training of that Nation.

I personally see no harm in generalist 'shaman' but I personally avoid the term as it brings up "bad blood" as it were. I have no desire to annoy my ancestors or insult them in any way. (Let alone those living today!)

wa:do

This is an interesting topic. What would be considered the "community"? Any who come to me seeking guidance or healing will find that I am there for them, this may be friends or family, or just people I meet randomly. The "community" I serve is the world around me and all that is in it. In earlier times, each particular tribe or community would have had their own shaman, but ultimately that shaman would have realized the connection with the rest of the world. They knew of the oneness with nature and the earth and universe as a whole. As much as they would have served their own people, shamans were there for the benefit and balance of all humanity and nature. So why then in order for one to be considered a true shaman does one need some sort of "initiation" or bestowed upon title. You are what you are. If you are a healer and you practice shamanic ways or beliefs regardless of what culture, you are a shaman. A walker between worlds.

Everything changes and everything evolves, even shamanism. We are the new generation of shamans. The energy of our ancestors lies within us. We are a part of them. We must honor our ancestors by following in their footsteps. By putting ourselves down (by thinking we are somehow unworthy), we in effect are dishonoring those who came before us. We are them, they are us. All is One. Always has been, always will be.

But that's just my opinion.

And yet I can not follow the same path as my ancestors... I have no direct cultural connection with them.

The 'old' generation of shamans are still here and deserve all the respect we can give them.

"Sticking feathers in your hair, does not make you a chicken". Calling yourself a shaman doesn't make you one. The title is not one to be claimed, it is given... not by people, but by the spirits and blood, sweat and tears of the seeker. It is a sacrifice not a gift.

wa:do

painted wolf said:

And yet I can not follow the same path as my ancestors... I have no direct cultural connection with them.

The 'old' generation of shamans are still here and deserve all the respect we can give them.

"Sticking feathers in your hair, does not make you a chicken". Calling yourself a shaman doesn't make you one. The title is not one to be claimed, it is given... not by people, but by the spirits and blood, sweat and tears of the seeker. It is a sacrifice not a gift.

wa:do

Click to expand...

I differ in one way. I believe that the ability to heal is both a gift and a form of self-sacrifice.

Yes, I can see your point for sure. It is not just a matter of just someone who is interested in shamanism reading a few books on the subject and then putting a mask and feathers on and pretending to be a shaman. It is gift that is given to you by the spirits. That is why I don't believe it is necessarily the community that gives you the title of a shaman. It is up to the spirits as to whether or not you are worthy of that gift and self-sacrifice. I don't even consider myself a "shaman", I am simply someone with a gift of healing. I have my own ways of doing what I do. They may not be entirely traditional. I'm certain that I've had a few past life experiences that involved different cultures so perhaps I picked up a little bit from each one.

My wife has a gift that she thinks is a curse, but I see it as a gift. She can see spirits literally as clear as day walking about and she can communicate with them. This gift came to her after she experienced a traumatic death (suicide) of a close friend of hers. I have a gift as well which is the ability to "see" illnesses in people and bring them out. I can look inside a person and see their animal as well. When I do this I usually don't even need any drumming or even trance for that matter. I can do it by touch or sight even in the middle of a place like a coffee shop. I don't need to "dress" the part, I just do it naturally. A gift is a gift. You either have it or you don't. Sometimes I wish I could see and talk to spirits like my wife does, but I think if I gained one gift I might lose the other one in the process. I just wish more people were open to the healing arts because I would like to help more people. Many are so skeptical. But what they don't realize, it that it actually does work.

Runewolf1973 said:

I differ in one way. I believe that the ability to heal is both a gift and a form of self-sacrifice.

Yes, I can see your point for sure. It is not just a matter of just someone who is interested in shamanism reading a few books on the subject and then putting a mask and feathers on and pretending to be a shaman. It is gift that is given to you by the spirits. That is why I don't believe it is necessarily the community that gives you the title of a shaman. It is up to the spirits as to whether or not you are worthy of that gift and self-sacrifice. I don't even consider myself a "shaman", I am simply someone with a gift of healing. I have my own ways of doing what I do. They may not be entirely traditional. I'm certain that I've had a few past life experiences that involved different cultures so perhaps I picked up a little bit from each one.

My wife has a gift that she thinks is a curse, but I see it as a gift. She can see spirits literally as clear as day walking about and she can communicate with them. This gift came to her after she experienced a traumatic death (suicide) of a close friend of hers. I have a gift as well which is the ability to "see" illnesses in people and bring them out. I can look inside a person and see their animal as well. When I do this I usually don't even need any drumming or even trance for that matter. I can do it by touch or sight even in the middle of a place like a coffee shop. I don't need to "dress" the part, I just do it naturally. A gift is a gift. You either have it or you don't. Sometimes I wish I could see and talk to spirits like my wife does, but I think if I gained one gift I might lose the other one in the process. I just wish more people were open to the healing arts because I would like to help more people. Many are so skeptical. But what they don't realize, it that it actually does work.

Click to expand...

Nice post and I agree with all that I highlights. thanks Runewolf.

I agree with you runewolf, and also might add that in many cases the "shaman" doesnt have a choice in the matter. If you read the accounts of traditional shaman(s), most of the time they are chosen by the "spirits", very often during a period of extreme illness. They receive a vision, or experience a form of spiritual death: their bodies are cut to pieces (i.e. as per the death of Osiris), their eyes are cut out, hands cut off, whatever. And the spirits who do this then replace the body parts with ones that are purified. Able to heal.

Another type of initiation involves the shaman experiencing all the diseases he/she will have to cure, so the initiation period may be fast (all at once) or happen over a long time. But as far as I can tell, even if you're talking about a longstanding "tradition" going back generations, it doesnt matter if you learn from a practicing teacher or not, in order to become a genuine shaman you have to be given that ability by the spirits.

In the past, before modern science, people who saw spirits and talked with trees, birds, etc. would have to learn how to deal with it (become a magician or a shaman) or they'd go crazy...it was simple survival instincts. NOW, we find out so and so hears voices and our first instinct is to give them drugs to make them "normal". And we wonder why our WORLD is so messed up? The people who can hear what Spirit is trying to say to us are silenced?

Maybe when we start letting spirit back in and actually letting it speak to us, then we can call ourselves "civilized", IMO. :angel2:

I think calling oneself a shaman is about the equivalent of calling oneself a wise man. Are you really as wise as you think you are? Perhaps only the spirits could answer that one. There are many people who I think are very wise, but they don't consider themselves as being wise. Remember the old saying...."The foolish man doth think himself wise, the wise man knows himself to be the fool." Perhaps a shaman is similar to that wise man. The true shaman doesn't need a "title" or to "announce" his powers, or to say to others "I am a shaman.", his actions, abilities, and wisdom speaks for itself. By this virtue alone people are drawn to him/her seeking wisdom and guidance and healing.

I think the problem is in how society likes to apply labels. And we seek to do so with "shaman" when IMO , shaman are within each and every denomination as clergy or other titles would do nearly the same thing. They are the caretakers, the healers, the dreamers of various faiths. Someone more eloquent than me can probably write that better. ~ Wolf.

There are a number of people that have tried to bring techniques of trance used in shamanism in a form of a "curriculum" and make them more effective. (Google for Michael Harner).

This is however not uncontroversial. A friend of mine who does these things says the problem is that people get deep experiences, but then meet powers they cannot control or make experiences they cannot integrate in their lifes. They then end up becoming unpleasant people, or they lose control of their lifes. Thus, learning the traditional way might be slower, but safer.

I agree with Wolfscout in that we do have a huge problem labeling everything . However this topic was more about respecting the Traditional beliefs then what we choose to call ourselves . Personally I have given up on labeling myself , or caring much about how others label me . The great thing about having people think that you are insane is that they tend to leave you be ...

kreeden said:

I agree with Wolfscout in that we do have a huge problem labeling everything . However this topic was more about respecting the Traditional beliefs then what we choose to call ourselves . Personally I have given up on labeling myself , or caring much about how others label me . The great thing about having people think that you are insane is that they tend to leave you be ...

Click to expand...

Visionaries have that effect on people, Kreeden. One simply learns to tune out the babble of those who know little.

Hey ! Another long time no see . I just dropped by to see if anyone I knew was still here . Good to see you are still around YmirGF .