To the Non Believers.

Sirktas said:

Are there atheists that preform rituals and live by a moral code that is dictated by others?

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Hi!

I would think that ritual would be tremendously apealing to many atheists...as the ontology doesn't exclude plenty (be it self-indulgent) mystisism or "untestesd" methodolgies for what-have-yous, there is no restriction within atheism that prohibits participation in such things. And even if there were: who cares?p

As for "moral codes", this is generally considered to be in a secular realm but one is far from obligated to adhere to that, either. Secular morality is often thought to be research based, so one needn't be an atheist to accept it

But it helps.

Having said that, the atheist is not really any more obliged to be rational (from a secular viewpoint, that is) regarding such things.

To my experience thus far, secularism and atheism don't mix so well as previously assumed; this excercise is open to all, and atheists don't have any special relationship with it. Data is data is data.

Mind you, that no agenda is strongly asserted (presumably ) in an atheistic argument for any mores, it's harder, thus less arbitrarily convincing for atheists to rally around one odd cause or another. One would then presume that any cause championed would be secular, and not necessarily atheistic.

mr.guy said:

Hi!

I would think that ritual would be tremendously apealing to many atheists...as the ontology doesn't exclude plenty (be it self-indulgent) mystisism or "untestesd" methodolgies for what-have-yous, there is no restriction within atheism that prohibits participation in such things. And even if there were: who cares?p

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I agree.
Laveyan Satanism is atheistic. What makes it a religion is its "psycho-dramatic" rituals. I realize the importance of ritual and symbolism.
Atheists may only have one thing in common. Usually the word atheist.

Archer said:

....You failed because you are so set on winning the un-winnable. Nothing you said above applies to what I said because evidently you do not have enough education to know what in context is. Take it in context! (Not for Amill)

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A pitiful response from you, which was only to be expected.

I've dealt with you fundies since I left your silly religion over 30 years ago.

You simply don't fool anyone anymore.

Archer said:

WOW some of you athiests sound like weak minded and ignorant Christians

You can't prove Atheism (for many, not all) is not a religion. I think it is for those with the zeal to protest and deny until you seem like a kid caught with his hand caught in the cookie jar swearing that it was not in the jar to avoid punishment. You guys some cheese to go with that whine? Should I call the WHAAAAAAAmbulance?

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That's funny, since the entire thread is Archer's extended whine about the big bad atheists attacking the poor innocent religionists.

And after 35 pages, still not a single thread to show what he's whining about. Why, it's almost as though he made the statement without basing it on anything.

Autodidact said:

That's funny, since the entire thread is Archer's extended whine about the big bad atheists attacking the poor innocent religionists.

And after 35 pages, still not a single thread to show what he's whining about. Why, it's almost as though he made the statement without basing it on anything.

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Thid thread is littered with it. The propaganda of the Atheist zealots. You know you posts and just because a thread starts out with one intent it turns into something else when the zealots of Athiesim start to condemn believers and acuse them of being murders by association. Trying to convert them to godlessness. I think you should all stop your poisonous ways and accept Jesus so that you do not suffer eternal damnation in the lake of fire.

Archer said:

Thid thread is littered with it. The propaganda of the Atheist zealots. You know you posts and just because a thread starts out with one intent it turns into something else when the zealots of Athiesim start to condemn believers and acuse them of being murders by association. Trying to convert them to godlessness. I think you should all stop your poisonous ways and accept Jesus so that you do not suffer eternal damnation in the lake of fire.

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Very funny. Ha, ha. Are you that bored? Trying to get a rise out of atheists because you are left all alone with a computer?

dogsgod said:

Very funny. Ha, ha. Are you that bored? Trying to get a rise out of atheists because you are left all alone with a computer?

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Not really, I just want them to see that it flows both ways.

Archer said:

Thid thread is littered with it. The propaganda of the Atheist zealots. You know you posts and just because a thread starts out with one intent it turns into something else when the zealots of Athiesim start to condemn believers and acuse them of being murders by association. Trying to convert them to godlessness. I think you should all stop your poisonous ways and accept Jesus so that you do not suffer eternal damnation in the lake of fire.

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Archer, propoganda is only propoganda if it is a deception or distortion of the truth. Science is neither. And the 'you're going to burn in hell' card doesn't really work, you should know that by now. I think you should switch to Flying Spaghetti Monsterism before the mighty Monster strikes you down with his Noodly Appendage.

Archer said:

Not really, I just want them to see that it flows both ways.

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By whining like a baby because no one believes you?

Archer said:

Not really, I just want them to see that it flows both ways.

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It sure would help if there was anything to your complaints, then.

This ought to give 'm nightmares:

LuisDantas said:

It sure would help if there was anything to your complaints, then.

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Did you not read the posts near the beginning of the thread? The ones accusing believers (religonists) of being evil and murderous? Those thing are all over the place on this forum I just got lucky and had some of those posts made here so I did not have to so to other threads.

It is proselytizing, it is an attempt to change the world view of another through guilt and humiliation.

Is there anything wrong in defending disbelief, or in pointing out the excesses of some believers?

Archer said:

Did you not read the posts near the beginning of the thread? The ones accusing believers (religonists) of being evil and murderous? Those thing are all over the place on this forum I just got lucky and had some of those posts made here so I did not have to so to other threads.

It is proselytizing, it is an attempt to change the world view of another through guilt and humiliation.

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Maybe you could be more specific. I didn't notice any posts doing anything close to what you say. Could you give us an example or two?

MSizer said:

Incomprehensible? Are you smarter than us? It is irrationality that is the greatest cause of human suffereing, and religion generally breeds irrationality.



Yes. Peace.



No.



That is what i do, when they base their actions on irrational explanations, such as rationalizing bigotry using a passage in leviticus or some surah, or having to deal with some uneducated ignorants who want to choose the science corriculum.



Because it causes harm. You yourself told me that if unbelievers would just either convert or die, the world wouldn't be such a bad place. Do you expect me to sit apathetic while people try to use stone aged stories to try to promote ridiculous ideas that split a wedge between morality and the suffering of councious beings?

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DeitySlayer said:

So what? Disbelief in God was not a factor in their murdering pyschopathy.

Hitler for example. He did not go 'I don't believe in God, ergo I will kill Jews, homosexuals and gypsies'. Atheism was not part of his logic. Stalin, another example. He did not go 'I don't believe in God, so I will purge the Communist Party'.

Religion on the other hand...

Crusades: "We must convert the heathens and spread the word of our Lord Jesus, so we'll kill all the Muslims or force them to convert"

Inquisition: "We're doing God's work and purging evil!"

Witch Hunts: Ditto

9/11: "We're doing this for Allah"

Religious killers are directly motivated by religion. Atheist killers rarely have atheism as a motivation; it usually just 'is'.

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Autodidact said:

There's no lumping involved, Archer. The people committing this evil are religionists, speaking, believing and acting on behalf of their religion. Apparently their religion consists of a set of primitive prejudices that need to be eradicated, so that children can benefit from scientific progress and not be paralysed.

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Wotan said:

I know what I see, Kid. And what I see is the belief in these myths used a political and social weapon.

And it is easy to see why. IF you think that what you believe is THE ABSOLUTE Truth, perfect in every way w/o error or possibility of error - and that is a central teaching of these myths. Once you believe that it becomes not simply easy but NECESSARY to spread you "faith" by reason where possible and fire and sword where necessary.

And we see that going on - daily.

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Autodidact said:

Isn't it equally for the people we're talking about to decide what it is? And what they say it is is an evil thing.

I'm sure it's more comfortable for you for your religion to be insulated from criticism, but when I see evil being perpetuated, I'm going to speak out against it. The people perpetuating the evil tell me exactly why they're doing it: because they believe it is Allah's will. They may be mistaken (indeed I'm sure they are, since there is no such thing) but nevertheless it is because of their mistaken belief that they do it. So yeah, I'm going to call Islam on that. It doesn't get a free pass just because it's a religion.

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Wotan said:

"The people committing this evil are religionists, speaking, believing and acting on behalf of their religion. Apparently their religion consists of a set of primitive prejudices that need to be eradicated, so that children can benefit from scientific progress and not be paralysed."

Because they SAID they were. Read the story. This is religious inspired evil and those doing it SAY SO.
What more evidence do need?

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Wotan said:

"Show that the leaders were in any way following their holy book"

Deuteronomy 7:16-24 For starters.

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Wotan said:

I think most of us (certainly me) don't give a R*A* WHAT you believe - seriously. If you want to run your one and only life by the rules of some ancient superstition - go for it. We could care less.

BUT

You are not content with that.

WHY can't you just follow the 11th commandment?

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Wotan said:

You believers can make all the excuse you want, explain away every atrocity done in the name of your god, separate yourselves form the violence and intolerance and apologize for anything ever done in the name of your "faith."

You get away from this simple fact.


If you don't believe in a god you will not kill in its name. You can't escape that.

We need to throw ALL these myths into the ash can of history where they belong. We need to grow up as a species. Take responsibility for our own actions and throw this childish crutch of "god help me" or "god willing" if god allows" and DO for ourselves by ourselves.

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Wotan said:

No you can't. Numbers don't matter. The defense of "so's your old man" is NO defense.

If you don't believe in god you will not kill in its name.

THAT is the point.

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Autodidact said:

Well, what part of what I said do you disagree? Are these clerics spreading these superstition not theists? Do they not tell us they are doing it because of their religion? And is that religion not a collection of harmful superstitition?

It's not about whether Mao was an atheist, but whether he did what he did because he was an atheist. In other words, it's not about the people, it's about their beliefs. Religion is a belief. These people tell you, in their own words, that they're preventing children from growing up healthy because of their beliefs. So no, I have no respect whatsoever for that belief.

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mball1297 said:

Maybe you could be more specific. I didn't notice any posts doing anything close to what you say. Could you give us an example or two?

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These need be taken in context please but there is a clear effort here to demonize religion.

You will notice, Archer, that these posts are referring to the radical and extremist elements of religion who use their holy texts to justify atrocity; rather than an attack on religion as a whole. You will also note that most of these posts are responses to you claiming that atheism leads to murder and atrocities.

Archer said:

These need be taken in context please but there is a clear effort here to demonize religion.

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I'm sorry but this just seems to be a list of people pointing out how religion demonizes itself (and corrupts the fundamentalist).

crocusj said:

I'm sorry but this just seems to be a list of people pointing out how religion demonizes itself (and corrupts the fundamentalist).

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Lumping! They accuse without using their superior logic that they claim to have to realize that these people are not what the religions are about. Furthermore the Crusades were not about God in any way and 90% =+ of those participating in the knew this.They are the type that will cut off the nose to spite the face. Illogical.

Archer said:

Lumping! They accuse without using their superior logic that they claim to have to realize that these people are not what the religions are about. Furthermore the Crusades were not about God in any way......

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Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You might want to edit this article, cuz it sure makes it look like God was
heavily involved in the carnage.....that is, if Catholicism represents God.

Archer said:

Thid thread is littered with it. The propaganda of the Atheist zealots. You know you posts and just because a thread starts out with one intent it turns into something else when the zealots of Athiesim start to condemn believers and acuse them of being murders by association. Trying to convert them to godlessness. I think you should all stop your poisonous ways and accept Jesus so that you do not suffer eternal damnation in the lake of fire.

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and I think you should stop proselytizing before I report you to the mods.

So, no actual threads, eh? Just a generalized whine and vague feeling of persecution, but no valid reason to start the thread at all? Is this typical of Christian veracity, or are you less careful than most?