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Remove ’Everybody Draw Muhammad Day’ from Facebook

mr.guy

crapsack
So pages should be selectively decided on whether to be banned or not?
Well, yeah. Depending on what you mean by "selectively", obviously.

It is ok to senselessly bash a religion in worst way possible, but inexcusable to bash a specific race?
Definately. Unless it's really funny, i guess.

Who makes the distinction and what is the justification?
For Facebook (or this forum, for that matter) it's proprietary. Right or wrong, the owners do.

In addition to that, the page had many repeated cases of racist depictions of Arabs and Arab culture.
Well...how are you racist about culture?

Either way there was no excuse for that page
Oh? I disagree. Obviously, as i have absolutely no regard for Mo and support freedom of speech, i'm not terribly conflicted as the two don't get along all that well.

However, on that note, i'd be interested to know what you would qualify as explicitly racist on a site drawing a guy would be.

Not that i doubt you, but i'd prefer a clearer idea.
 

Bismillah

Submit
Well, yeah. Depending on what you mean by "selectively", obviously.
So, how would you selectively define which pages to ban and why?

Definately. Unless it's really funny, i guess.
Explain this please

Well...how are you racist about culture?
"racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others." I.e
Deragotory depictions of Arab culture

support freedom of speech
No, you don't. You support freedom of speech when it suites your needs. What is the difference between derogatory pages that focus on race and religion? Why is there differing responses to these pages?

explicitly racist on a site drawing a guy would be
A picture that takes the race of the Prophet and uses that as a topic to ridicule i.e terrorism

I am not discussing how racist the page was. I am noting how differently facebook staff treated racist pages and the page in discussion.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
Well, i do aim to please.

I'm just so happy that your last post wasn't in such broken english; in the spirit of this (supposed) international forum were many low functioning english speakers participate, i'm just content that i was able understand you without pointing and gesturing.

you'd have to try real hard to offend me lol be my guest

.
 

mr.guy

crapsack
Your posts speak for themselves.
Well, thank you!

Reeks of effort, don't it?

hint, hint.

You make it too easy. Why should i bother exposing the obvious? I don't have to really.
That's okay.

There's no dishonour in giving up because it's too easy. Everyone does it. ;)

As for your position on the matter, sure you made that clear, and that is exactly why it is useless.
Ahh...

...now where' gettin' somewhere.

Does this not strike of some common ground with, say, Pakistans' position?

namely: "I don't like your opinion; thus, it shouldn't be heard."

Yes, very rough paraphrasing, i know...but of the same vain.

However, your position is less defensible as you're on a debate forum.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well, thank you!

Reeks of effort, don't it?

hint, hint.

That's okay.

There's no dishonour in giving up because it's too easy. Everyone does it. ;)

Ahh...

...now where' gettin' somewhere.

Does this not strike of some common ground with, say, Pakistans' position?

namely: "I don't like your opinion; thus, it shouldn't be heard."

Yes, very rough paraphrasing, i know...but of the same vain.

However, your position is less defensible as you're on a debate forum.

Keep posting your trash. You are not getting a serious response from me. You insulted Muslims in general, you insulted specific people here, your "arguments" have already been addressed, and you yourself are not worth debating. You have nothing to offer.

If you bother to read the thread, you will see that i responded to all the questions and all the criticism, because mainly they were all respectable. You want to be a funny guy, you will not be taken seriously.
 

mr.guy

crapsack
Yes, alienating the allies you so desperately need should work out great.
Nah...you should see the stuff we draw about jesus! Seriously, you wouldn't believe how much jesus porn i've seen.

Hot stuff.

Mostly gay.

Ok, fine. It's all gay.


So, how would you selectively define which pages to ban and why?
I don't know. I'm not certain what your criterium of selection was; this is your proposition, after all.

Explain this please
Sure!

While cultural differences can and are so heavily ingrained in us, skin colour is only skin deep (see what i did there? 'tink it's a pun)

Presently, it's a popular notion to not judge folk heavily based soley on racial differences, like, for expample:


-not taxing asians for being asians.
-pulling over blacks for being in expensive cars
-not allowing arabs to board planes.

The rage these days is to try and judge people by their cultural and personal merits.

Overt racism is considered not only harmful, but completely without basis.

"racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. I.e
Deragotory depictions of Arab culture
Huh?

I'm sorry, square peg round hole.

And not one of those very stretchy holes, if-ya-know-what-i-mean ;)

No, you don't. You support freedom of speech when it suites your needs.
Oh? My needs?

What is the difference between derogatory pages that focus on race and religion?
To be fair, i'm not certain at this point that you know the difference between race and religion.

But hey! There's a south park episode for that, too!

Why is there differing responses to these pages?
The fashion of the times that i'd mentioned above.

A picture that takes the race of the Prophet and uses that as a topic to ridicule i.e terrorism
...is not racism. Sorry.

I am not discussing how racist the page was. I am noting how differently facebook staff treated racist pages and the page in discussion.
Ahh...my mistake.
 

mr.guy

crapsack
Keep posting your trash. You are not getting a serious response from me. You insulted Muslims in general, you insulted specific people here, your "arguments" have already been addressed, and you yourself are not worth debating. You have nothing to offer.

If you bother to read the thread, you will see that i responded to all the questions and all the criticism, because mainly they were all respectable. You want to be a funny guy, you will not be taken seriously.
Honestly, i didn't think you'd get so hot under the collar about it.

But in the future, for my part, i would likely take less huffing and whining more seriously.

Then again, that's kinda what this whole thread is about, isn't it?
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Honestly, i didn't think you'd get so hot under the collar about it.

But in the future, for my part, i would likely take less huffing and whining more seriously.

Then again, that's kinda what this whole thread is about, isn't it?

Let me give you a simple example, so you can understand where i'm coming from. If you read the entire thread, you would realize that i have stated multiple times, that i'm {Against} banning or removing the group from facebook, or stopping the southpark episode, or any kind of complying to the extremists demands.

What i was talking about was wether or not this reaction by Americans, to the death threats (which i also clarified to be completely against), is the best way to handle this. I was simply discussing that an insult to the entire Muslim community, based on the actions of radicals, is unfair. Because most of these Muslims who are going to be insulted by this "Draw Muhammad day", didn't actually do anything to deserve this.
 

mr.guy

crapsack
Let me give you a simple example, so you can understand where i'm coming from. If you read the entire thread, you would realize that i have stated multiple times, that i'm {Against} banning or removing the group from facebook, or stopping the southpark episode, or any kind of complying to the extremists demands.

What i was talking about was wether or not this reaction by Americans, to the death threats (which i also clarified to be completely against), is the best way to handle this. I was simply discussing that an insult to the entire Muslim community, based on the actions of radicals, is unfair. Because most of these Muslims who are going to be insulted by this "Draw Muhammad day", didn't actually do anything to deserve this.
Oh, i'm not arguing that it's fair. It's a ******* picture.
 
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Bismillah

Submit
Nah...you should see the stuff we draw about jesus! Seriously, you wouldn't believe how much jesus porn i've seen.
Please stay on topic. Again, why would you ever want to alienate the liberal muslim population?

I don't know. I'm not certain what your criterium of selection was; this is your proposition, after all.
I never presented a way to discern the two, merely pointed out the discrepancies between them. You were the one to support the difference in response and I ask, again, why and how anyone could arbitrarily make such judgments.

While cultural differences can and are so heavily ingrained in us, skin colour is only skin deep (see what i did there? 'tink it's a pun)

Presently, it's a popular notion to not judge folk heavily based soley on racial differences
Says who?

Overt racism is considered not only harmful, but completely without basis.
The same thing could be said about bashing a religion without any argument or reason.

Oh? My needs?
Yes, they are, after all, serving your point.

The fashion of the times that i'd mentioned above.
Does that make it ok then? Shouldn't baseless insults of religion and race be treated evenhandedly?

...is not racism. Sorry.
Superimposing a bomb on the prophets head is most certainly racism.

Ahh...facebook...youtube...
But do you understand why this was done?
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Oh, i'm not arguing that it's fair. It's a ******* picture.

I understand. I was giving you an example, as to why i was so persistent that you read the thread. So that you'd understand what my arguments where coming from so i don't have to repeat myself.

Also, the part about the picture, i know this may seem nothing to you. For some reason, it is something to Muslims. You want to draw Muhammad (pbuh), that' fine, that's your right. But to make a day, where you do the act that bothers all Muslims, just to show the radicals that they can't oppress you, is unfair. No matter how small the subject is, it can still be judged. Also don't forget, like i told this means a lot for Muslims, if you don't want to respect that, that is entirely up to you.
 
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Anonymouse

Member
Badran writes: I was simply discussing that an insult to the entire Muslim community, based on the actions of radicals, is unfair. Because most of these Muslims who are going to be insulted by this "Draw Muhammad day", didn't actually do anything to deserve this.
I think the point that Mr. Guy is making is that because of this demonstration (Draw Muhammed Day) Muslims around the world are still alive to be or not to be offended. Insult can be easy to get over. Death, on the other hand, is more difficult.
 
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DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
I think the point Badran is making is that the pictures are excessively insulting and confrontational to peaceful, non-radical Muslims. This would be analagous to crapping all over crucifixes because the KKK used Christianity to justify their racism. You're offending the entirety of Christianity, including the peaceful, non-radical elements, because of the idiocy of a select few.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think the point that Mr. Guy is making is that because of this demonstration (Draw Muhammed Day) Muslims around the world are still alive to be or not to be offended. Insult can be easy to get over. Death on the other hand, is more difficult.

I understand what you are saying. But it doesn't have to be either that or that. Just because radicals made a bad reaction, doesn't mean Americans should a bad one too, even if it is much smaller. Why? Surely there is a better way to handle this. Put in mind all the current affairs and problems. This kind of thing only make things worse.
 

mr.guy

crapsack
Please stay on topic. Again, why would you ever want to alienate the liberal muslim population?
Children might get pretty upset over pictures.

Would you equate the "liberal muslim population" 's maturity level to be on par?

I never presented a way to discern the two, merely pointed out the discrepancies between them. You were the one to support the difference in response and I ask, again, why and how anyone could arbitrarily make such judgments.
I would merely point out the difference between inherited genes and accultured ontology.

Says who?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Rights_movement

The same thing could be said about bashing a religion without any argument or reason.
Not quite.

Yes, they are, after all, serving your point.
Nope.

Does that make it ok then? Shouldn't baseless insults of religion and race be treated evenhandedly?
Nope.

Superimposing a bomb on the prophets head is most certainly racism.
Nuh-uh.

But do you understand why this was done?
Avoid BAAWWWW?

Later.

p.s. get back to this down the line...it'll give ya a chance to read up on racism (definition of). ;)
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think the point Badran is making is that the pictures are excessively insulting and confrontational to peaceful, non-radical Muslims. This would be analagous to crapping all over crucifixes because the KKK used Christianity to justify their racism. You're offending the entirety of Christianity, including the peaceful, non-radical elements, because of the idiocy of a select few.

Exactly, Which will add more anger or frustration to Muslims who didn't do anything. The pictures are too insulting. The comments are too provoking. It is simply an insult, even if it is not intended as one.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
As somebody who values free speech and brought up in western culture, I think it is terrible that people depict pictures of Mohammad knowing that it is considered bad in Islam. While I do not fully comprehend the reasoning behind the rules set in Islam regarding depictions, I think it is important to respect them, especially when it does nobody harm. Those who purposefully break this rule are not attempting to uphold free speech- in my opinion they are only being disrespectful.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
As somebody who values free speech and brought up in western culture, I think it is terrible that people depict pictures of Mohammad knowing that it is considered bad in Islam. While I do not fully comprehend the reasoning behind the rules set in Islam regarding depictions, I think it is important to respect them, especially when it does nobody harm. Those who purposefully break this rule are not attempting to uphold free speech- in my opinion they are only being disrespectful.

Thank you Madhuri. Your words are truly what i hoped someone would say.
 
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