Natas
Active Member
I realize this is totally off topic from the original question of this thread, and I leave it up to the moderator to determine whether or not to move it to a different thread on this subject I have since started.
Your defense of kidnapping by comparing it to an act of self-defense, is fascinating.
"Any parent who kidnaps a child must ask himself or herself if love and protection of the child is the true motive. If so, then go to your local court and seek protection. If you take any other action, your motive is suspect." Legal Handbook On Kidnapping
ten commandments, I ask you again, where do you see these two "Greatest" commandments? If these are just personal proclamations, please say so.
The Bible seems pretty clear in it's contempt of liars.
"Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:6
"A sword is upon the liars; and they shall dote: a sword is upon her mighty men; and they shall be dismayed." Jeremiah 50:36
And what would be the determining factors in deciding who was an, "Innocent"?
"We may deceive ourselves into thinking that God will accept us into His heaven because we are less sinful than others, but God views any sin as worthy of the death penalty. Thus, regardless of how society stratifies the sins we commit, God hates all sin and must, in His holiness, punish them. Some seem to find comfort in the fact that Jesus refused to condemn men in His first coming, even refusing to take part in the execution of the woman caught in the very act of adultery (John 8). This is because His first coming was not to condemn men, but to save them: For God did not send the son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:17-18).
johnnys4life said:If it's okay to kill someone in self defense, it's okay to kidnap to defend an innocent. So yes.
Your defense of kidnapping by comparing it to an act of self-defense, is fascinating.
"Any parent who kidnaps a child must ask himself or herself if love and protection of the child is the true motive. If so, then go to your local court and seek protection. If you take any other action, your motive is suspect." Legal Handbook On Kidnapping
Your post gave two pronouncements and stated they were the, "First and second greatest commandments". In the written text of thejohnnys4life said:Neither my faith, nor the Jewish faith are based solely on the 10 commandments. Though that is a common misconception.
ten commandments, I ask you again, where do you see these two "Greatest" commandments? If these are just personal proclamations, please say so.
Care to provide a source for this statement?johnnys4life said:There were righteous people in the Bible who lied at times to save someone's life, and God did not condemn them for it.
The Bible seems pretty clear in it's contempt of liars.
"Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:6
"A sword is upon the liars; and they shall dote: a sword is upon her mighty men; and they shall be dismayed." Jeremiah 50:36
While you're faithfullness to your friend is admirable, and your concern for her and her daughter is without question, don't fall into the trap of using an emotional response to solve the problem. The criminal justice system, right or wrong in your opinion, will certainly not endorse kidnapping for any reason.johnnys4life said:Wrong. Having been in and out of the court system as a child, I know that it does. I don't think you quite know my background. I have been involved in a legal case with my friend concerning the custody of her daughter. Her daughter was being abused by the father and yet he obtained custody after taking them to court numerous times. I've seen how the judge treated her just because her daughter's dad is a millionaire and she isn't. I've seen that for myself. I've also seen how someone who can afford to go to court 20 times and use thier lawyer to find anything and everything they can to attack another person legally, can make life hell for someone who is just scraping by.
johnnys4life said:Not in all cases. To protect an innocent, yes.
And what would be the determining factors in deciding who was an, "Innocent"?
So as you see it, it's a personal decision that one should use as a basis for kidnapping and justifying it with God?johnnys4life said:Kidnapping is not a sin. It's the raping, torturing and murdering associated with it in many cases that's sin. This kind of kidnapping is done out of love, for protection. Yes I think that overrides the law of the lands. I think you should try to do it without lying, if possible. Most of the time God makes things like that possible. I'm not advocating lying unless there is no other way to protect an innocent. When the law fails to protect an innocent, that's when the court system is of no use to me.
"We may deceive ourselves into thinking that God will accept us into His heaven because we are less sinful than others, but God views any sin as worthy of the death penalty. Thus, regardless of how society stratifies the sins we commit, God hates all sin and must, in His holiness, punish them. Some seem to find comfort in the fact that Jesus refused to condemn men in His first coming, even refusing to take part in the execution of the woman caught in the very act of adultery (John 8). This is because His first coming was not to condemn men, but to save them: For God did not send the son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:17-18).