Can the soul die?

Ori · Jul 26, 2005

I believe we are eternal, but can the soul ever die?

Terrywoodenpic · Jul 26, 2005

No the soul is of God

Terry
__________________________________________
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God

michel · Jul 26, 2005

Terrywoodenpic said:
No the soul is of God

Terry
__________________________________________
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God

Oh I do wish you'd stop beating me to it.............

I agree - I am not quite sure how or why (and it doesn't really matter to me) , but I see all our souls as being a 'part of God' - if that makes any sense whatsoever..:help:

may · Jul 26, 2005

orichalcum said:
I believe we are eternal, but can the soul ever die?

Look! All the soulsto me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the sonto me they belong. The soul that is sinningit itself will die....Ezekiel 18;4

cardero · Jul 26, 2005

The soul is eternal as long as the individual desires. This decision (to be or not to be) can only be decided by the individual and is not dictated by any other entity. There may be one exception to this rule and this may be if GOD decides to cease existing and it if this happens we will know nothing.

fromthe heart · Jul 26, 2005

No...I don't think our souls ever die.Our bodies are just housing for our spirit/souls. When the body wears out is is no more the soul still remains. Where is up to each and every one of us. Life in our bodies is just one part of living.

Aqualung · Jul 26, 2005

may said:
Look! All the soulsto me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the sonto me they belong. The soul that is sinningit itself will die....Ezekiel 18;4

I agree with may. I think that a soul can essentially die if it was not good enough to get into heaven. It doesn't die in that it ceases to exist, but in that it is forever cut off from God, and therefore might as well be dead.

Fluffy · Jul 26, 2005

Hehe I think hardcore fanatics of Bleach would go with the idea that a soul could most definitely die.

I'm in two minds as to whether souls exist or not though. I don't feel any compulsion to believe in them or their terminability yet it is an intriguing concept.

may · Jul 27, 2005

Fluffy said:
Hehe I think hardcore fanatics of Bleach would go with the idea that a soul could most definitely die.

I'm in two minds as to whether souls exist or not though. I don't feel any compulsion to believe in them or their terminability yet it is an intriguing concept.[/QUOTEthe soul is you as a living breathing thing ,the concept of us posessing ,having ,an immortal soul is based on Greek philosphy and is not a bible teaching ,that is why the bible says that Adam became a living soul not that he was given a soul.

Fluffy · Jul 27, 2005

the soul is you as a living breathing thing ,the concept of us posessing ,having ,an immortal soul is based on Greek philosphy and is not a bible teaching ,that is why the bible says that Adam became a living soul not that he was given a soul.

I agree that an immortal soul has its roots much earlier than Christianity but I am wary of agreeing that Christianity does not go along with such an idea. Perhaps someone better versed in the Bible could help on that one.

I just can't quite see the difference between a living, mortal soul and me at the moment, essentially.

michel · Jul 27, 2005

Fluffy said:
I agree that an immortal soul has its roots much earlier than Christianity but I am wary of agreeing that Christianity does not go along with such an idea. Perhaps someone better versed in the Bible could help on that one.

I just can't quite see the difference between a living, mortal soul and me at the moment, essentially.

Fluffy; I am slow, what are you asking to be made clear, specifically ?

James the Persian · Jul 27, 2005

may said:
soul is you as a living breathing thing ,the concept of us posessing ,having ,an immortal soul is based on Greek philosphy and is not a bible teaching ,that is why the bible says that Adam became a living soul not that he was given a soul.

Actually, (shock, horror) I'm going to have to agree with May on this one. The teaching that we have an immortal soul (if by this you mean that our souls are immortal in and of themselves) is pagan and not Christian. The idea that our souls are naturally immortal has been condemned by Church Fathers such as St. Irenaeus and is still not a belief held by my Church (interestingly, we are usually accused of 'helenising' Christianity but to us it appears as though the helenisation of Christianity is peculiar to post-Renaissance western Europe - I am talking of doctrine and belief, not language).

We believe that nothing in man is immortal as that would imply that it is uncreated and divine. For us, only One is Immortal - God. One of our titles for Him (used in the Liturgy) reflects this. It is 'Holy Immortal'. An article covering the Orthodox perspective on this can be found here:

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/immortality_soul.htm

James

jorylore · Jul 27, 2005

I think that is what May is saying. That each of us are mortal, living souls and like anything mortal, subject to death. Maybe I'm mistaking.

I just can't quite see the difference between a living, mortal soul and me at the moment, essentially.

[/QUOTE]

alowyn · Jul 27, 2005

I believe it can't. As the Bhagavad Gita says:
"Atma(the soul) neither slays nor is slain"

may · Jul 28, 2005

jorylore said:
I think that is what May is saying. That each of us are mortal, living souls and like anything mortal, subject to death. Maybe I'm mistaking.

[/QUOTE]yes i think that when we die ,it is just that ,we die.but i do not believe that we possess a shadowy think that goes to heaven .the hope of everlasting life lies with God as to weather he wants to resurrect us .so the life-force comes from God but the soul which is us as a human or animal can die.
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten ....Eclessiastes 9;5

(Job 14:10) But an able-bodied man dies and lies vanquished; And an earthling man expires, and where is he?

(Ecclesiastes 3:19) For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity.

(Ecclesiastes 9:10) All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She´ol,(mankinds common grave) the place to which you are going............but the hope of a resurrection is in Gods hands that is where the life-force is.and if he chooses to give us another body he will

Draka · Jul 28, 2005

(Ecclesiastes 9:10) All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She´ol,(mankinds common grave) the place to which you are going............but the hope of a resurrection is in Gods hands that is where the life-force is.and if he chooses to give us another body he will

So then according to what I get out of this then reincarnation is possible..."to give us another body he will"

That would mean that we would still exist in some way in order to be given another body wouldn't it?

Scott1 · Jul 28, 2005

IacobPersul said:
Actually, (shock, horror) I'm going to have to agree with May on this one. The teaching that we have an immortal soul (if by this you mean that our souls are immortal in and of themselves) is pagan and not Christian. The idea that our souls are naturally immortal has been condemned by Church Fathers such as St. Irenaeus and is still not a belief held by my Church

Ok James.. I'm gonna need some help with this one.

Saint (for both of us I believe) Gregory Thaumaturgus seems to teach otherwise: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0608.htm - read section VI

...also I'd like you to comment on this article on the soul from the same site:

The theory of Emanation too was seen to be a derogation from the dignity of the Divine nature For this reason, St. Justin, supposing that the doctrine of natural immortality logically implies eternal existence, rejects it, making this attribute (like Plato in the "Timaeus") dependent on the free will of God; at the same time he plainly asserts the de facto immortality of every human soul. The doctrine of conservation, as the necessary complement of creation, was not yet elaborated. Even in Scholastic philosophy, which asserts natural immortality, the abstract possibility of annihilation through an act of God's absolute power is also admitted. Similarly, Tatian denies the simplicity of the soul, claiming that absolute simplicity belongs to God alone. All other beings, he held, are composed of matter and spirit. Here again it would be rash to urge a charge of Materialism. Many of these writers failed to distinguish between corporeity in strict essence and corporeity as a necessary or natural concomitant. Thus the soul may itself be incorporeal and yet require a body as a condition of its existence. In this sense St. Irenaeus attributes a certain "corporeal character" to the soul; he represents it as possessing the form of its body, as water possesses the form of its containing vessel. At the same time, he teaches fairly explicitly the incorporeal nature of the soul. He also sometimes uses what seems to be the language of the Trichotomists, as when he says that in the Resurrection men shall have each their own body, soul, and spirit. But such an interpretation is impossible in view of his whole position in regard to the Gnostic controversy.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm

Thanks for the help... this is a bit over my head.

Scott

Fluffy · Jul 28, 2005

Fluffy; I am slow, what are you asking to be made clear, specifically ?

May seemed to be suggesting that not only was the idea of an immortal soul a Greek one (okay in my books) but also that such an idea is not Christian. I was under the impression that Christianity did believe in an immortal, supernatural soul, at least for the most part.

Also if we accept that Christianity believes in a "living, breathing" soul, what would be the essential differences between this soul and the being that I am at the moment?

Firstly, according to science, the idea of something living must conform to 7 strict principles (at least in the English secondary school Biology GCSE curriculum

). Furthermore that idea of classifying the soul as "breathing" infers that such an entity has a much more 'advanced' system of respiration than that of, say, bacteria. Such a being would be very similar, at least in the essentials, to a human so I was wondering what the differences might be?

cardero · Jul 28, 2005

I'm moving this over to Religeous Debates

Scott1 · Jul 28, 2005

carrdero said:
I'm moving this over to Religeous Debates

I moved it....

Can the soul die?

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