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Arizona's Immigration Law

Ciscokid

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
I kind of see both sides of the argument. I think there is a potential for abuse which is what bothers most people.

What I wonder is how much sympathy I would get if I entered Mexico illegally and was caught later on? How many would speak out and say "Hey who are you to question this guy and ask him to provide documentation"?

My father became an American citizen many years ago and he had to carry a green card for 6 years. We have these papers/documents for a reason.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
AxisMundi said:
1. The vaugness has beena ddressed with a follow-up bill. And your "Telledega Nights" comment is mere hysteria.
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No, it hasn't, and no, it isn't.

2. Yes, it is reasonable to assume everyone of the same ethnic background MAY BE here ilelgally, and to verify their citizenship or visa status.
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Sure, it's reasonable to assume they may be. It's also reasonable to assume that every white male you meet may be a rapist or murderer. It's reasonable to assume that every priest you meet may be a child-molester. I may be Brad Pitt, for all you know. It's, however, not reasonable to assume that everyone of the same ethnic background IS here illegally.
 
Reverend Rick

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
It boils down to states rights. The federal government is not enforcing the law. They are not protecting our sovereign borders. If the immigration laws are wrong, they need to be changed not ignored.

The federal government has dropped the ball on this. The states have every right to address this issue, especially if you do not feel safe in your own home. Living near the southern border is dangerous with all the lawlessness.
 
AxisMundi

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
tumbleweed41 said:
Although I find your question irrelevant, every morning as I walk my son to school.
But like I said, as a VERY white male, I am not to concerned about walking six blocks without it.
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A certainly reasonable answer.

However, other than the above, same question.
 
AxisMundi

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
Ciscokid said:
I kind of see both sides of the argument. I think there is a potential for abuse which is what bothers most people.

What I wonder is how much sympathy I would get if I entered Mexico illegally and was caught later on? How many would speak out and say "Hey who are you to question this guy and ask him to provide documentation"?

My father became an American citizen many years ago and he had to carry a green card for 6 years. We have these papers/documents for a reason.
Click to expand...

There is certainly a potential for abuse, in any law.

However, bigots and racists will use anything to substantiate their hatred, from secular laws to the bible.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
AxisMundi said:
There is certainly a potential for abuse, in any law.

However, bigots and racists will use anything to substantiate their hatred, from secular laws to the bible.
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Of course they will, but there's no reason to give them a bill like this that gives them a perfect reason to be bigotted or racist.
 
AxisMundi

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
tumbleweed41 said:
Hmm, good idea. Perhaps they should, how did you put it, "give teeth", to other federal laws.
Maybe they can "give some teeth" to Federal Environmental Protection Laws, or they could "give some teeth" to Federal Banking Laws.
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Quite agreed, even with the sarcasm.

EPA laws especially took a hard hit under the last Administration.

tumbleweed41 said:
Careful, rash generalizations and segregational comments can lead others to think you are harboring bigotry against Hispanic-Americans.
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I don't buy into the hyphenated American nonsence.

I am an American of Irish heritage, but I am an American first and foremost.

The same goes for any American citizen as far as I'm concerned.
 
AxisMundi

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
mball1297 said:
No, it hasn't, and no, it isn't.
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Yes, it has. How many times do you plan we go back and forth?

mball1297 said:
Sure, it's reasonable to assume they may be. It's also reasonable to assume that every white male you meet may be a rapist or murderer. It's reasonable to assume that every priest you meet may be a child-molester. I may be Brad Pitt, for all you know. It's, however, not reasonable to assume that everyone of the same ethnic background IS here illegally.
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Wow, large amount of the word "reasonable" in a paragraph that is far from.
 
Mister_T

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
Mestemia said:
Of course, with there being so many people refusing to acknowledge that there is a problem...
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I don't think anyone is denying there is a problem with illegal immigration, rather not everyone buys into the "universal scapegoat for America's problems" reputation that they keep getting labeled with.

People just seem more interested in illegal immigrants being America's whipping boy and would rather remain ignorant on the matter and get their "facts" from whatever political pudnit is going to stroke their preconceived ideals, rather than educate themselves on why people are here illegally and the royally screwed up immigration system (thanks to things like unbalanced lotteries, quotas, fees, etc. enacted within the last decade) that are helping contribute to it.
 
Mister_T

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
AxisMundi said:
Wow, large amount of the word "reasonable" in a paragraph that is far from.
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What exactly did you find unreasonable about that paragraph? Seems like he's using the same measuring stick as you were (which seemed like the point: pointing out the flaw of assuming such things), unless there is something that I am missing.
 
AxisMundi

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
mball1297 said:
I didn't realize the Bible was a legal document.
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Well, for some it is a "legal document", but perhaps a debate for a seperate thread.

However, the bible has been used to substantiate and support hatred, oppression, persecution, bigotry, war, and even chattel slavery.

So shall we ban it?

If some secular law is going to be used in the same manner, as opposed to people making others personally responsible for their actions, might as well start housecleaning.
 
AxisMundi

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
Mister_T said:
What exactly did you find unreasonable about that paragraph? Seems like he's using the same measuring stick as you were (which seemed like the point: pointing out the flaw of assuming such things), unless there is something that I am missing.
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You are quite obviously missing much, on purpose I have a feeling.

When a warrent is served, everyone on that property is considered a possible suspect and handcuffed for officecr safety until such time as charges will be filed and the person arrested, or innocence is determined and the person released.

Doesn't matter if it's an inner city drug house or a factory where illegals are working.

And I'm sorry, but you cannot convince me that the people discussed earlier (the US citizens zip-cuffed until their citizenship was established) didn't know there were illegals working there.
 
Mister_T

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
AxisMundi said:
You are quite obviously missing much, on purpose I have a feeling.
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You are quite obviously dodging the question and being intellectually dishonest, on purpose I have a feeling.

I believe this would the fourth or fifth time now that I've had to refresh you on your own talking points that you're putting forth in the debate. I know this is a long shot, but let's try to stay on track:

You said that it was "reasonable to assume everyone of the same ethnic background MAY BE here ilelgally, and to verify their citizenship or visa status"; Mball using your "logic" said that "it's also reasonable to assume that every white male you meet may be a rapist or murderer. It's reasonable to assume that every priest you meet may be a child-molester". You then responded by saying that Mball's paragraph was "unreasonable" even though it's identical to your own. Care to explain the double standard?

AxisMundi said:
When a warrent is served, everyone on that property is considered a possible suspect and handcuffed for officecr safety until such time as charges will be filed and the person arrested, or innocence is determined and the person released.

Doesn't matter if it's an inner city drug house or a factory where illegals are working.
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Once again, let's stop diverting here: You said that it was "reasonable to assume everyone of the same ethnic background MAY BE here illegally". You do realize and comprehend the context of your own statement, yes? That is a far cry from a warrant being served on a drug house full of maybe a dozen people or a factory with a few dozen illegal immigrants working in it.

AxisMundi said:
And I'm sorry, but you cannot convince me that the people discussed earlier (the US citizens zip-cuffed until their citizenship was established) didn't know there were illegals working there.
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I don't think you'll have to worry about anyone trying to convince you of anything more in this thread.

And it doesn't matter if they knew there we're illegal immigrants working there or not and that's not the issue with the article: Placing anyone in cuffs based on how they look is not right and is indeed profiling.
 
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