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Is living a gay/lesbian lifestyle a problem with God?

Duck

Well-Known Member
Im sorry thats a bad argument the New testament gives us permission to stop those things however it does not give us the right to ignore the moral law. Remeber the Counsel in the New Testament?

Its true there are alot of interpretations, and id be the first to let things like homosexuality slide, however Paul is very very unforgiving on sexual immorality not limited to homosexuality.

So, as part of following that moral law, you drag your mouthy teenagers before the city council and stone them to death right? Or was that part of the old code thrown out by Jesus?

And as part of following that moral law you don't beat your slaves so hard that they die right away, but linger for several days, right? Or was that part thrown out too? Or did society evolve away from the need to follow the moral code endorsing things now considered to be, dare I say it, immoral. Or do you consider slavery to be an acceptable social construct? If you don't consider slavery (the bible not only condones this evil, it goes so far as to set up rules and regulations regarding this evil practice) to be acceptable, how can you accept any of the rules presented by the bible as applicable, because after all, the bible is the standard for setting morality. Rejecting some of the biblical code regarding moral practice invalidates your basis. Or you could just admit that you are cherry picking the verses you think should apply selectively to other people but not yourself.
 

Duck

Well-Known Member
So, just to recap, lesbianism is not prohibited in either testament. Jesus personally prohibits remarriage after divorce, (except in one passage, in a single narrow exception). Yet so-called Christians focus a lot of energy on fighting what Jesus did not condemn (lesbianism) and none on what He did (divorce.) That's because they are a bunch of stinking hypocrites.

It is true, Autodidact. Lesbianism isn't prohibited. I bet that's simply because the men that wrote the bible (inspired or not, liberally seasoned with other religions myths or not) considered women beneath notice except as baby factories. I mean look at the rest of the book and its treatment of women, women were of no value unless virgins and then only if they weren't barren.

The strong independent equal to man woman, Lilith, doesn't even get mentioned in most versions of the bible, cause she was an equal creation to Adam, and completely independent of him.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
It is true, Autodidact. Lesbianism isn't prohibited. I bet that's simply because the men that wrote the bible (inspired or not, liberally seasoned with other religions myths or not) considered women beneath notice except as baby factories. I mean look at the rest of the book and its treatment of women, women were of no value unless virgins and then only if they weren't barren.

The strong independent equal to man woman, Lilith, doesn't even get mentioned in most versions of the bible, cause she was an equal creation to Adam, and completely independent of him.
Men were to love their wives as Jesus loved the church!
Jesus Christ died for the church.In today's world it is hard for a woman to find a man she can trust not to cheat, much less one she can find safety and refuge in and find a man that will love her so much he would lay down his life for her.
God used women as prophets in the bible when all of society were treating women as if they had no value and were beneath. Don't blame the scriptures!
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Men were to love their wives as Jesus loved the church!
Jesus Christ died for the church.In today's world it is hard for a woman to find a man she can trust not to cheat, much less one she can find safety and refuge in and find a man that will love her so much he would lay down his life for her.
God used women as prophets in the bible when all of society were treating women as if they had no value and were beneath. Don't blame the scriptures!

O.K., so why do you think God has no problem with lesbianism? What's your theory?
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
O.K., so why do you think God has no problem with lesbianism? What's your theory?

God has no problem with lesbianism because He is able to withstand and endure the temptations of the flesh!
Ok I know what you meant. You just worded it funny.
Seriously!
I have no way to read someone's heart and if someone says that they are in love with someone of the same sex I have no way to determine if it is real love or lustful.
The ones I have met have always been lustful and speak out pretty loud about their attraction to everyone they find attractive but this doesn't speak for very many.
I don't understand homosexuality but I do have a theory of how people are attracted through energy vibes I will share.
My own theory is that there are 8 different types of people that can pair together in four different pairs that people call having chemistry with someone. There are four on the introvert side and four on the extrovert side. These bonds that are driven to be together are not necessarily male or female but only seek out an energy that is similar that they are drawn too and a guy will make a best friend out of another guy with this energy that draws together as he would a lover out of the opposite sex.
This energy either draws people together or has a repelling effect where there are some personality types you just can't stand, even if you don't know the person.This causes animals to be territorial and even humans are territorial and form gangs or clicks in social settings.
Maybe homosexuals have learned to find this bonding with the same sex early in life and have always been in more of a resistant state with the wrong vibes of energy(using the term loosely) with those of the opposite sex and possibly this can be carried on and passed down through generations.It seems Homosexuals alway find themselves in a strong state of resistance with nature and social acceptance.
Maybe this resistance stems from being resistant to the natural flow of life.
I believe some of our traits we carry through life and our born with are developed even as we are yet sperm in racing up the fallopian tube.I believe from this we are competitive creatures trying to be the best and on top to survive. Maybe homosexuality is from sperm that maybe got caught up in resistance to the natural flow of life and causes personality traits that are likewise.
(This is not peer reviewed or backed up by science but my own thoughts off of the top of my head as I do believe in energy fields):D
If God views it as a sin then it is possible as a generational curse that someone is born with possibly.
Personally it is on the shelf with me as even if it is a sin, it is no worse than drinking coffee or any other sin that all humans have in one way or the other.
Please know I don't pass judgement or condemn !
I have backed all of my facts up with maybe's and I believe's;)
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
God has no problem with lesbianism because He is able to withstand and endure the temptations of the flesh!
Ok I know what you meant. You just worded it funny.
Seriously!
I have no way to read someone's heart and if someone says that they are in love with someone of the same sex I have no way to determine if it is real love or lustful.
Same for heterosexuals, of course.
The ones I have met have always been lustful and speak out pretty loud about their attraction to everyone they find attractive but this doesn't speak for very many.
That's interesting. How many lesbians have talked to you in this way?
I don't understand homosexuality but I do have a theory of how people are attracted through energy vibes I will share.
Who cares? You obviously are ignorant on the subject, so I think I'll save myself the time of reading your crackpot notion.

Now, back to those scriptures, the ones that are JUST FINE with lesbianism. Why do you blaspheme your God by calling it a sin, when He does not?
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Jesus never mention Homosexual?

Yes, He did mentioned Homosexual.

Leviticus 18:1-30

22.THOU SHALT NOT LIE WITH MANKIND, AS WITH WOMANKIND IS AN ABOMINATION.

Leviticus 20:1-27

13.If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, BOTH OF THEM have committed an ABOMINATION: they sure surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them..

And as I mentioned, the law no longer applies to the Christian.

.[/quote]Romans 1:1-32

25....who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and serve the creature more then the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26.For these cause God gave them up unto VILE AFFECTIONS: for even their WOMAN did change the NATURAL USE into that which is against NATURAL. (Woman with woman, oral sex, anal sex, masturbation).

27...and likewise also the man, living the NATURAL USE of the woman, BURNED IN THEIR LUST one toward another; MEN with MEN working that which is UNSEEMLY, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet..[/quote]

I would sure hope a straight person doesn't go against their nature and sleep with someone of the same sex :rolleyes:
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Who cares? You obviously are ignorant on the subject, so I think I'll save myself the time of reading your crackpot notion.

Now, back to those scriptures, the ones that are JUST FINE with lesbianism. Why do you blaspheme your God by calling it a sin, when He does not?
Sex outside of marriage is a sin.
 

Duck

Well-Known Member
If God views it as a sin then it is possible as a generational curse that someone is born with possibly.

So, potentially, homosexuality now is punishment for something someone else did a generation or more ago? Regardless of the fact that any "punishment" associated with homosexuality is strictly induced by attitudes considering homosexuality to be something bad, how can you consider the act of punishing someone for something done by another person in any way just? That is like telling your child "I am going to spank you for what your brother did fifteen years ago before you were BORN". The idea of punishing me for something done by my grandparents (possibly before my parents were born) is so ridiculous that it is not even laughable. You worship a being that considers this to be a just action?

Personally it is on the shelf with me as even if it is a sin, it is no worse than drinking coffee or any other sin that all humans have in one way or the other.

Coffee is not a sin! Coffee is the staff upon which life (or at least conciousness) leans! :D
 

tarasan

Well-Known Member
So, as part of following that moral law, you drag your mouthy teenagers before the city council and stone them to death right? Or was that part of the old code thrown out by Jesus?

And as part of following that moral law you don't beat your slaves so hard that they die right away, but linger for several days, right? Or was that part thrown out too? Or did society evolve away from the need to follow the moral code endorsing things now considered to be, dare I say it, immoral. Or do you consider slavery to be an acceptable social construct? If you don't consider slavery (the bible not only condones this evil, it goes so far as to set up rules and regulations regarding this evil practice) to be acceptable, how can you accept any of the rules presented by the bible as applicable, because after all, the bible is the standard for setting morality. Rejecting some of the biblical code regarding moral practice invalidates your basis. Or you could just admit that you are cherry picking the verses you think should apply selectively to other people but not yourself.

I could just grant all of this and state that the slavery laws werent morals about what was considered sin, which is rather obvious. these are punishments for violating those laws not the laws themselves, that it an important distinction, and considering Jesus' story with the "he who is without sin cast the first stone" story yes i feel we can say we dont have to kill people anymore.

in short no im not cherry picking, im just being consistant.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
So, potentially, homosexuality now is punishment for something someone else did a generation or more ago? Regardless of the fact that any "punishment" associated with homosexuality is strictly induced by attitudes considering homosexuality to be something bad, how can you consider the act of punishing someone for something done by another person in any way just? That is like telling your child "I am going to spank you for what your brother did fifteen years ago before you were BORN". The idea of punishing me for something done by my grandparents (possibly before my parents were born) is so ridiculous that it is not even laughable. You worship a being that considers this to be a just action?

Coffee is not a sin! Coffee is the staff upon which life (or at least conciousness) leans! :D
Well first, thanks for responding without being nasty and bitter as I put the thoughts as my own off the top of my head trying to give a theory with all sincerity.
There have been many generational curses throughout scriptures and I have struggled wondering how can this be fair.
They say alcoholism is a trait that passes from one generation to another.I was born having to overcome a childhood that some would consider hell.By the grace of God all of the traits that would be used for anger and hate have turned into love and compassion and a desire to reach others.All I know is that everything you give to God that is a mountain on top of you will turn into a mountain that you can stand on and see.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Sex outside of marriage is a sin.

So you support gay marriage then?

And of course, in all the many places where gay marriage is legal, homosexuality is not a sin?

What about if the marriage isn't legal, but solemnized by a church?

Or a civil union?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I could just grant all of this and state that the slavery laws werent morals about what was considered sin, which is rather obvious. these are punishments for violating those laws not the laws themselves, that it an important distinction, and considering Jesus' story with the "he who is without sin cast the first stone" story yes i feel we can say we dont have to kill people anymore.

in short no im not cherry picking, im just being consistant.

Sorry, I don't understand you. Slavery in the Bible is just plain permitted. It's not outlawed, it's not a sin, it's not a punishment, it's just dandy.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
There are of course churches that perform gay marriages and do civil unions. The US Episcopal Church, I am proud to say, performs civil unions, and many other Anglican rites marry gays in countries where it's legal.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Well first, thanks for responding without being nasty and bitter as I put the thoughts as my own off the top of my head trying to give a theory with all sincerity.
There have been many generational curses throughout scriptures and I have struggled wondering how can this be fair.
They say alcoholism is a trait that passes from one generation to another.I was born having to overcome a childhood that some would consider hell.By the grace of God all of the traits that would be used for anger and hate have turned into love and compassion and a desire to reach others.All I know is that everything you give to God that is a mountain on top of you will turn into a mountain that you can stand on and see.

So in my case, in which my homosexuality is a source of joy and love, is it a generational blessing?
 

tarasan

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I don't understand you. Slavery in the Bible is just plain permitted. It's not outlawed, it's not a sin, it's not a punishment, it's just dandy.

the slavery laws were not moral laws, that is what I am stating and apparently you agree with me.

But in terms of slavery and weather God was really a supporter of it, is a hihgly debated subject, what with how he treated slaves on a one to one basis, how the very nation he built up was a slave nation, and about how he let slaves into the kingdom of God in the New Testament, with such statements as everyone is equal undre God we have a good reason to believe God was "for" Slaves, however this is not a topic we are talking about on this thread. If you want to talk about it make another thread.

Homesexuality is a moral law, which is in the unbrella of sexual immorality. If you can somehow refute all the biblical material saying it is I gladly welcome it.
 

Smoke

Done here.
Obviously, some people's gods have a problem with gay people and some people's gods don't.

What I don't understand is why you would expect anybody else to care about what your imaginary friend "thinks".

As for people who say, "I don't have anything against gay people, but I have to go by what the Bible says" -- Get over yourselves. You're not fooling anybody. The Bible says lots of things you don't give a damn about. You know it, and everybody else knows it, too. And if you claim to be a follower of Jesus -- Jesus explicitly commands his followers to do lots of things that you don't do and have no intention of ever doing. You know it, and we know it. The fact that you hypocritically invoke your religion as a cover for your bigotry makes you bad people. The fact that your religion encourages you to do so makes it a bad religion. And you people want to tell me how to live my life? No thanks.
 

Tanuki

Taking a hiatus
I think so long as you are not doing anyone any harm by the way you live then fair play to you! God may have made Adam and Eve but he also made Adam and Steve. People who use religion as a way to bash people are in my mind completely misguided. The Bible mentions homosexuality once in Leviticus, yet in the same passage God also speaks out against committing adultery and unruly children! Jesus himself never spoke of homosexuality and where it is mentioned in the NT you must look at the context in which Paul was speaking. He (Paul) was clearly speaking against temple prostitution which is something I don't think anyone would agree with gay or otherwise!
 

tarasan

Well-Known Member
Obviously, some people's gods have a problem with gay people and some people's gods don't.

What I don't understand is why you would expect anybody else to care about what your imaginary friend "thinks".

As for people who say, "I don't have anything against gay people, but I have to go by what the Bible says" -- Get over yourselves. You're not fooling anybody. The Bible says lots of things you don't give a damn about. You know it, and everybody else knows it, too. And if you claim to be a follower of Jesus -- Jesus explicitly commands his followers to do lots of things that you don't do and have no intention of ever doing. You know it, and we know it. The fact that you hypocritically invoke your religion as a cover for your bigotry makes you bad people. The fact that your religion encourages you to do so makes it a bad religion. And you people want to tell me how to live my life? No thanks.

thats is just ignorance and how dare you think that im bigoted against gay people, I dont hate gay people in fact I have 3 homosexuals have friends and they know what i think but we still hang out and have a laugh, in fact its just those people who sleep around, they know how i feel but ultimately we still hang out we still have a laugh, if people want to be gay own choice and that is fine with me.

like I have said there is good reason why we dont do those things, so unless you have a decent remake please stop your over generalisations Smoke, I know your a homosexual and this is a touchy subject for you, but IM NOT out to get you, if you think im misinterpreting my scripture please say to me where, or what im interpreting wrong, im more than willing to hear you out.
 

Smoke

Done here.
thats is just ignorance and how dare you think that im bigoted against gay people, I dont hate gay people in fact I have 3 homosexuals have friends and they know what i think but we still hang out and have a laugh, in fact its just those people who sleep around, they know how i feel but ultimately we still hang out we still have a laugh, if people want to be gay own choice and that is fine with me.

like I have said there is good reason why we dont do those things, so unless you have a decent remake please stop your over generalisations Smoke, I know your a homosexual and this is a touchy subject for you, but IM NOT out to get you, if you think im misinterpreting my scripture please say to me where, or what im interpreting wrong, im more than willing to hear you out.

I didn't have you or any particular person in mind. However, I'd be willing to bet you don't apply the scriptures as strictly in cases that apply to yourself as you apply them to gay people. Do you obey all the commandments of Jesus?
 
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