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Fear based religions

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Alright, alright, break it up you guys.
(In my best Homer voice) ......Sure thing "Mr BURNS".............. :D

To deny a fear element in Christianity is a bit absurd. I'm not suggesting that Christianity is based on fear, however fear of punishment is undeniably part of the religion.
I didn't think anyone did...... just a discussion to clarify the kind of fear in Christian life.

Peace,
Scott
 
"I didn't think anyone did...... just a discussion to clarify the kind of fear in Christian life. "

I don't think anyone did either, I was just giving my view. By the way, anyone who quotes from The Simpsons automatically makes Mr Spinkles' List of Very Very Cool People. I think you've made it twice now. Congrats!
 

(Q)

Active Member
"I've always wondered if there was a god. And now I know there is -- and it's me."

-- Homer Simpson
 
Good work, (Q), you've made the list. I also would have accepted "Save me Jebus!" ~Homer

Or possibly "And to think, it happened on Christmas. If Jesus knew about this he'd be spinning in his grave" ~Barney Gumble
 

Curtis

New Member
And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Revelation 19:18)

And the testimony is this, that God has given us life, and this life is in His son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. (1st John 5:11)

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Psalm 111:10: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commmandments; His praise endures forever.
 

dan

Well-Known Member
(Q) said:
Dread and fear are words that used to mean awe and respect.

Ah, I see... the dictionary has changed in accordance to the Bible too. :rolleyes:

If you want to get into an etymological argument you shall lose. I have studied Greek, Hebrew, Latin and the romance languages extensively (it's my major). I know a lot more about them than you, so please don't tell me what they mean.

hehe - I love it when someone boasts their 'abilities' and purport they will always win.

You know not of what you speak. You seek to tear down tenants of Christianity that you don't even understand.

Oooooooh!.... I bow and offer my sword to he who hath vanquished me!

:D

Are you gonna back up these taunts or are you just gonna string us along until you get bored with making sardonic comments?
 

(Q)

Active Member
OK Dan,

Dread: Be afraid or scared of
Fear: An emotion experienced in anticipation of some specific pain or danger

Awe: An overwhelming feeling of wonder or admiration
Respect: An attitude of admiration or esteem

Nope, I don't see the connection. You'll have to fill us all in with your insight as to how the two former definitions have anything to do with the latter.
 

dan

Well-Known Member
Well, do you know what a colloquialism is? Many times words change depending on times and regions. What do you think the phrase "by and by" means? Today it means "soon," or "in a little while," or something to that effect; but it used to mean "immediately." All of the words you use in your vocabulary are derivatives of older English words, which come from Latin. They have almost never maintained the same meaning. That's the interestig thing about language: it's relative; it changes every day. Dig it? Marvy? What would you say if a sixty year-old asked you if you were gay? Heavy, isn't it?

The English language isn't the only language that changes. Spanish is another fun one. "Joder" is a common word in the Rio Platense region of South America, but it's an expletive in Mexico. "Barbaro" in Uruguay is "awesome," but in Guatemala it's "barbaric." "Factura" is a pastry in Argentina, but it's a phone or gas bill one country away. A situation that is "embarazosa" is embarrassing; but a person that is "embarazada" is pregnant.

Now, put your dictionary away, because it says nothing of what the translators of the Bible thought while they were translating the text. The words they translated dread and fear were incorrect. They should have been translated differently, so as to express a reverent awe. One word in one language can mean five different things in another language, y'know. You remember that Rammstein song from years ago called "Du Hast"? I had to listen to so many stupid people telling me it meant "You hate me," but if you listen to the context it is only half of a sentence. He's really saying "You have asked me, and I have said nothing." These were people that supposedly spoke German, too. Hebrew is even more prone to these mistakes because it does not have Latin roots. Their words are completely unrelated and mean so many different things. Transcription also confuses people. If you transliterated a Hebrew word to English and came up with -'lp-, would you translate it "soldier," or "thousand"? You have no idea, do you? Well, you would have to look at the context, because they are the same word (unless you have the vowels - alluph v. eleph - but you don't, because they didn't add the nikkud until centuries after these texts were written). This is why so many of the numbers in the O.T. are so far out of whack.

Now, one of the many words translated "fear" in the O.T. is -rwg- (read backwards, pronounced "goor"). It is found nine times in Genesis, four times in Exodus, eleven times in Leviticus, and so on and so forth. It is translated thus: abide, fear, assemble, remain, inhabitant, stand in awe, stranger.

Another is -)ry-, pronounced "yaw-ray." It is the word translated "fear" in the verses that speak of fearing the Lord. What does it mean, though?
(Qal)
1) to fear, be afraid of
2) to stand in awe of, be awed
3) to fear, reverence, honor, respect

(Niphal)
1) to be fearful, be dreadful, be feared
2) to cause astonishment and awe, be held in awe
3) to inspire reverence or godly fear or awe

I'll spare you the other twenty-four words translated fear. You're more than welcome to look them up if you'd like. There are a number of lexicons available on the Internet. One piece of advice, though: I know what I'm talking about when it comes to languages. You can use every dictionary you have available and I will still show you you're wrong. I'll prove it to you. How do you pronoune the word "forte"?
Y'know, when people say, "That's not my forte." How is it pronounced? There is only one correct pronunciation.
 
6. THE "FEAR OF THE LORD"


It was at Gamala, during the evening conference, that Philip said to Jesus: "Master, why is it that the Scriptures instruct us to `fear the Lord,' while you would have us look to the Father in heaven without fear? How are we to harmonize these teachings?" And Jesus replied to Philip, saying:

"My children, I am not surprised that you ask such questions. In the beginning it was only through fear that man could learn reverence, but I have come to reveal the Father's love so that you will be attracted to the worship of the Eternal by the drawing of a son's affectionate recognition and reciprocation of the Father's profound and perfect love. I would deliver you from the bondage of driving yourselves through slavish fear to the irksome service of a jealous and wrathful King-God. I would instruct you in the Father-son relationship of God and man so that you may be joyfully led into that sublime and supernal free worship of a loving, just, and merciful Father-God.

"The `fear of the Lord' has had different meanings in the successive ages, coming up from fear, through anguish and dread, to awe and reverence. And now from reverence I would lead you up, through recognition, realization, and appreciation, to love. When man recognizes only the works of God, he is led to fear the Supreme; but when man begins to understand and experience the personality and character of the living God, he is led increasingly to love such a good and perfect, universal and eternal Father. And it is just this changing of the relation of man to God that constitutes the mission of the Son of Man on earth.

"Intelligent children do not fear their father in order that they may receive good gifts from his hand; but having already received the abundance of good things bestowed by the dictates of the father's affection for his sons and daughters, these much loved children are led to love their father in responsive recognition and appreciation of such munificent beneficence. The goodness of God leads to repentance; the beneficence of God leads to service; the mercy of God leads to salvation; while the love of God leads to intelligent and freehearted worship.

"Your forebears feared God because he was mighty and mysterious. You shall adore him because he is magnificent in love, plenteous in mercy, and glorious in truth. The power of God engenders fear in the heart of man, but the nobility and righteousness of his personality beget reverence, love, and willing worship. A dutiful and affectionate son does not fear or dread even a mighty and noble father. I have come into the world to put love in the place of fear, joy in the place of sorrow, confidence in the place of dread, loving service and appreciative worship in the place of slavish bondage and meaningless ceremonies. But it is still true of those who sit in darkness that `the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.' But when the light has more fully come, the sons of God are led to praise the Infinite for what he is rather than to fear him for what he does.....

[from The Ubook]



P.S. The rest of this TRUE teaching of Jesus Christ is here...http://www.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webg...al/www/data/papers/paper149.html&line=123#mfs

To Mods: Please don't ask me to paraphrase !!!!!!!



Cheers
 

dan

Well-Known Member
I apologize. I initially only read the first couple of sentences and thought you were making the age old argument about God changing after the Old Testament. I was wrong. I read the rest and appreciate the viewpoint. It is very insightful.

Once again, my apologies.
 

dan

Well-Known Member
Looks like someone took off with the proverbial tail between the legs. Too bad. I really wanted someone to answer the pronunciation question. Anyone care to venture a guess?
 

(Q)

Active Member
Anyone care to venture a guess?

No guesses are required Dan. Your post is utter nonsense. Your trying to tell us to simply throw away a definition in favor of someones interpretation of that definition.
 

dan

Well-Known Member
No I'm not.

First off, it's not a definition, it's a pronunciation. There is a correct way to pronounce this and an incorrect way to do it. I know you're familiar only with the incorrect way to pronounce the word because it's all you've ever heard, and it makes sense to you. You may look it up and find the correct way to do it, but then you'll argue that both ways should be accepted. You may even find a dictionary with both pronunciations in it. Dictionaries are constantly being dumbed down to pander to the lowest common denominator.

So tell me how this word is correctly pronounced and I'll give you the etymological history of both pronunciations, void of inference, assumption or opinion. Only fact.

I told you not to argue with me about this and you didn't listen. You gonna puss out now or not?

Also, I noticed the sly way you avoided mention of the earlier topic and only addressed the question at hand. Don't feel like bringing up such a shattering defeat? It's OK, I told you you were gonna lose. I'm an expert on languages, so don't you ever underestimate me in that capacity. You may say I'm being cocky, but I find it fitting considering the sanctimonious manner in which you spewed forth your ill-informed opinion.

Answer the question or cede your defeat.
 

(Q)

Active Member
First off, it's not a definition, it's a pronunciation.There is a correct way to pronounce this and an incorrect way to do it.

You're kidding, right? That statement defies common sense. Do you even have a clue as to the difference is between the definition of a word and its pronunciation?

I told you not to argue with me about this and you didn't listen. You gonna puss out now or not?

:rolleyes:
 

dan

Well-Known Member
oooo...ever evading the inevitable. Trying to find a way to squirm out of this one.

"Do you even have a clue as to the difference is between the definition of a word and its pronunciation?" First, you left a word out. You should have typed the word "what" between "to" and "the". Your sentence defies common sense.

I guess maybe I are dumb and don't talk english real good. Maybe you can help me. I bow to your superior intellect, but you have many, many beautiful pinatas filled with many little prizes.
- Many pinatas?
- Many.
- Would you say I had a plethora of pinatas?
- A what?
- A plethora.
-Oh, si, si, you have a plethora.
-Jefe, what is a plethora?
-Why, el Guapo?
-You told me I had a plethora. I would not like to tink that someone would tell me I had a plethora and then find out he does not even know what it means to have a plethora!

Sorry, that was from The Three Amigos. I just love that movie. So, anyway, quit stalling and answer the question.
 

(Q)

Active Member
Dan

I'm not stalling - one cannot answer a question that is based on complete nonsense.
 

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
Dan, I'm gonna side with Q on this one. Some words have more than one definition, and you can tell between the two by slight differences in pronunciation, etc....but what you seem to be saying here, is that you know what the ancient biblical writers meant (which pronunciation, and therefore definition, they were thinking of). How can you claim to know this?
 

dan

Well-Known Member
First off, these words in Hebrew are not pronounced differently. They are the same word. Second, I know a lot more about languages and the Bible than any of y'all do (so please don't lecture me). Thrid, I know this because I have a very close relationship with the Lord and His servents here on earth. I know the Gospel in its fullness and know the Bible a whole lot better than a bunch of people who study it only to antagonize others. You are an aitheist. Why do you care what the Bible says? You lack a key principle in understanding the nuances of scripture and belief, and that's faith in the Lord. Your judgment must be grouped with all others who's motive is to disprove rather than to support. I have shown you what the experts and I know. You have shown what makes sense to you. I only ask one question and I have yet to get an answer. It is an easy question. I even invite you to look it up so you'll know the answer. How do you pronounce the word "forte," used to denote one's strong points or area of expertise?
 
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