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Perception and Conscious

What do you believe?

  • The mind is of a higher, ethereal body (the soul)

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • The mind is completely biological (the brain)

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • It is impossible to determine the mind due to it's complexity

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • I do not know

    Votes: 4 33.3%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Cynic

Well-Known Member
If a child was born without any of the five senses, would he/she have the capicity to be conscious? Since we all know that our sensory organs and the processes at which information is gathered and interpreted by the brain can all be explained on biological terms, why would the conscious mind be any different? Damage to regions of the brain can alter conscious experience. Isn't that proof that the brain determines the mind, and therefore is not a part of some ethereal body?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Oh blast! I voted, and thought 'Great I have voted with the majority!' (which is a relief) - only to find I am the first voter!:D


QUOTE "If a child was born without any of the five senses, would he/she have the capicity to be conscious? Since we all know that our sensory organs and the processes at which information is gathered and interpreted by the brain can all be explained on biological terms, why would the conscious mind be any different? Damage to regions of the brain can alter conscious experience. Isn't that proof that the brain determines the mind, and therefore is not a part of some ethereal body?"

I think your above scenario is mirroring a case similar to that of a person in a comatose state. Unless the brain stem itself is showing no activity (TVS) the person is still deemed to be alive. I do tend to think that the 'mind' itself is purely the bio-chemical mechanism of the brain; but I believe that the medula oblongata itself is the 'tie' between our minds and the soul (which is the etherial body) - tied to the mind through our lives, by the 'silver cord' - mentioned in:-
Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.:)
 

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
I think you mean without ALL of the five senses, don't you? Many children are born without specific ones of them......blind, or deaf generally. I think we can now scan for brain function, even in the absense of any sensory stimuli; this would prove consciousness. I am not sure what sort of awareness such a child could develop, and maybe that's what you mean when you say consciousness. What sort of quality of life such a child might have is a different question, of course.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Engyo said:
I think you mean without ALL of the five senses, don't you? Many children are born without specific ones of them......blind, or deaf generally. I think we can now scan for brain function, even in the absense of any sensory stimuli; this would prove consciousness. I am not sure what sort of awareness such a child could develop, and maybe that's what you mean when you say consciousness. What sort of quality of life such a child might have is a different question, of course.
Is not this akin to severe autism ? There is conciousness with the severely autistic; although there may be no visible signs of motor control, social skills ability.:confused:
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
With out any of the five senses the child would have no input.
It would not be aware if it were conscious or not.
If you were able to wire up a sense directly to the brain and applied a stimulus, you would get a response. It would then be conscious in the sense that it could respond.
If you mean could it then think, I suspect not, but it should be in a position to learn.


Terry
_____________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 

Cynic

Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
With out any of the five senses the child would have no input.
It would not be aware if it were conscious or not.
If you were able to wire up a sense directly to the brain and applied a stimulus, you would get a response. It would then be conscious in the sense that it could respond.
If you mean could it then think, I suspect not, but it should be in a position to learn.


Terry
_____________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
Hmmm, I agree. Yet without any of the senses I don't see how one could be aware (yet the capacity would still be there). Being aware of an external environment --is, I think-- essential in order to distinguish your internal self. So, I think if you were born without any of all the five senses, it would leave you completely unaware. But perhaps would you still be able to dream?

This sort of test could definitely be done on mice.
 

Theodore

Member
The brain is only an interface with the physical world. Thoughts require no connection to the senses to exist, even though most of our thoughts have something to do with what the senses have told us.
The Soul has no physical brain but does have a mind.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Hi Theodore,

I notice that this post to which I am replying is the first one from you on this forum, and I felt that I would like to welcome you to our 'Family'

You might like to have a look at :- Articles for New Members ; from there, there is a link to the forum rules, which you ought to see.

You might also like to post an introduction on:-
Are you new to ReligiousForums.com?

We're a friendly bunch on this forum, so I hope you feel at home soon;

Happy times!:)
 

Cynic

Well-Known Member
Theodore said:
The brain is only an interface with the physical world. Thoughts require no connection to the senses to exist, even though most of our thoughts have something to do with what the senses have told us.
The Soul has no physical brain but does have a mind.
Hi and welcome.

Please give support for your statement.

First our sensory organs recieve perceptual data which is then processed in the appropiate areas. For example, visual information from the eyes is processed in the occipital lobe. From then on, the information goes to the limbic system, (where perceptual information is emotionally processed, basically) and finally to the frontal lobe, where conscious thought takes place. Thoughts are dependant on perceptual information. If there was not input at all (say for instance a child born without any of the five senses), I think that it would be impossible to think, since there would be nothing to think of, or no reason to think, let alone be aware of oneself.
 

Cynic

Well-Known Member
So you guys obviously believe, that the mind or brain is entirely independant of the soul?

Hypothetically, say that the soul is someone's "life force". Then it would always need a mind and body in order for it to be aware of itself. (Hypothetically)The self or the mind is completely temporary and material, and thus one experiences ego-death when the mind and body dies (if the mind is dependant on the body, i.e. the brain determines the mind). But this life force would always need a mind and body in order to be self aware. Would you agree?
If you lost your mind and body, that entity and being and self-identity would vanish, and no longer be apart of your soul, so it would be impossible to identify yourself as your current self because that self no longer exists, but you would need a new mind and body in order to even be aware and have a self-identity...

I think this is very interesting. Even though I am a skeptic, I have experienced things that have baffled me, things that aren't explained by science. Unfortunately making a testimonial of my experience has no value, but I wouldn't deny the possibility that the soul, or say someone's life force exists, that is some type of energy that is there and leaves when a person dies. The only thing is, is that I believe that it is totally dependant on a body and mind, rather than independant as religion has claimed.

I've heard that people lose a slight amount of weight when they die. I don't know if the source was reliable though, and I'm not sure if that would serve as evidence, because oxygen also has weight which people may breathe out before death.
 

Watcher

The Gunslinger
Imagine you are blind.
How would you know what a tree looks like or how your face looks like?
Imagine you are deaf.
How would you know your own voice or that of the person you love?
Imagine you are deaf, blind and mute.
How would you understand the thoughts that form in mind?
Imagine you don’t exist.
How would you know you don’t exist?
And that is what enlightenment is like. Ineffable… ---Eddie Traversa
Makes sense to me:bonk:

About the losing weight after death thing...I heard about that a while back too. Was completly bogus though.
 
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