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Learning to Debate?

Apotheosis

Member
Hey guys, and girls, I just finished having a long and very entertaining debate with my mother, who is a Mormon. I think I "won" although she never conceded a victory, she kept falling back on having faith, and how shes knows the Church is true because she gets these "feelings" whenever something deeply religous happens around her(an example would be her father being appointed Bishop of the local church during her teenage years). Although I believe I won, I didn't do nearly as well as I would have liked, so my question to you is how do I polish my debating skills? I wish to become a much more skilled debater, so that when the local missionaries come(which my mom is sure to call) in a few weeks I can debate them and not only hold my own, but perhaps throughly stomp them, I love debating and love winning even more, but to be honest the only people I have debated are family members, who though I love are not very knowledgable about the various debate topics, so beating them is like bragging about beating a younger brother in a wrestling match or basketball game. So enough of my rant, to all those skilled debaters, I am asking for your help polishing my very rough debate skills.
 

Pah

Uber all member
This certainly the place to learn about debate. You are welcome here.

You might start by telling us what "side" you are on. What are your beliefs?
 

Original Freak

I am the ORIGINAL Freak
First of all...debating, like any other skill is helped by practice. Here's a good place to do that. (I get lots and I find I'm ending arguments with my wife faster and faster, but asking her I don't win, we just solve the problems faster):D

Second, debating religion and beliefs will almost always never end up in a winner. Because faith is something you really can't argue with. When it comes down to "I just have faith" you simply give reasons for why you can't have this 'blind faith'. I must :clap you for sticking up for what you believe in.
Third, have a good knowledge of your side of the debate as well as the other side of the debate.
 

Prima

Well-Known Member
Well, the first thing is to learn not to brag when you win. If you make yourself thoroughly obnoxious when you debate, no one is going to be inclined to debate with you.

Read around the debate forums. You'll see good debating and bad debating, see if you can pick out the differences.

Always have sources. Lots of them :D Many people will fall back on "well that's your opinion, you're stupid, so I don't believe you" Hand them a few studies, and that negates that idea XD
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I hope you like it here, apotheosis; I remember seeing your intro, to which I responded.

I don't think there is ever a case of total victory or losing in debate - debate is a bit like the scales of justice; you can keep adding material to both sides, and the scales will tip on one side, and then the other; I don't honestly think there is ever a total victory - since we are talking about complex etherial concepts.

One very good tool to use, to hone debating skills, I have found, is to debate for the side you would normally debate against - it sharpens your wits, gives you an insight of appreciating the 'opposition's' views, and may even make you question your own beliefs - either that, or it will re-enforce them; either way , it is a fun excercise.

As others before me have said - don't be tempted to become a braggard about victory - even if you do feel you have achieved it.;)
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
One of my favorite quotes is "Your greatest weapon is in your enemies mind." I think its a Buddha quote, I may be wrong. But my point is, to completly obliterate your oponents debate, you must first know thier material. The better you know your oponent, the better you will know how to counter them. What I get from your post, you are debating against the Mormon religion. First, know the Bible, and also the Book of Mormon. Come up with questions that are difficult to answer. Also, know any contradictions, because one of the best things to do to win a debate is to destroy your oponents credibility on the issue. If you can stump your oponent, you are on the road to victory. But be prepaired with possible counters, because if your hurt oponent hurts you, your the one with lower credibility. Sharpen your wits to a fine point to avoid this. After you have completly destroyed all credibility on the issue, or have come to a level you deem satisfiable, launch your own assault. From your perspective, hammer away at what they tried to argue. Counter thier counters, and leave it at that.
On the verbal issue of debating, you have to be a good and strong speaker of quick and sharp wit. The quicker you can come up with answers and questions, the better. Also, AT ALL COST, AVOID using words and phrases such as; "I think" Umm, uhhhh, etc.," and any other words and phrases that can level the debate, such as "what if your wrong" you say that, you admit there is a possibility your oponent is right. You don't want that. And as Prima said, a strong weapon for debating is citing highly credible rescources. Also, admiting something is your opinion kills your debate.
You must also be a great listener to debate. Listen to everything your oponent says, pick apart, disect it, look it over, then mentally find all flaws. If your oponent is right about something, admit it, then destroy it. An example is when I debated on physical discipline for children, my oponent said that pain is experienced, and it can often scare the child, which is not healthy. I replied, "Yes, a level of pain is experienced when the child is hit, but a child will experience pain from every day life. A child skateboards, falls, and skins the knees. A child climbs a fence and falls. Children get hit with balls, stung and bit by insects, shocked, and burnt. These do not teach the child fear, they teach the child boundries and care. A child who falls of a skateboard will learn get up, and try a different approack. One who falls of a fence will try different foot positions. A child will also learn to not mess around with bees that sting, the stay out of electrical outlets, and the value of wearing sun screen lotion." I killed the issue of pain being experienced. My oponent then said, "But then a child will learn a way to not get caught doing things that are wrong." To which I quickly responded, "Not if the parent or babysiter is properly supervising the child." My oponent couldn't counter that, and moved on to another point.

I can say the best way to prepair is prepair your main points, then several side points and key words, then think of as many as possible counter points and questions your oponent will bring up. Practice, even you end up debating against your self. And go in with confidence, know your right and thier wrong. If a foundation has a crack, it will crumble quicker than the foundation without a crack.
 

Apotheosis

Member
Thanks a bunch guys!! I will try and follow your points, though I imagine it will take a lot of practice. And yea I know bragging can be annoying, I try not to, but when my mom makes a particularily unbelievable statement it is hard not to laugh. As for my position, I find there are to many contradictions in the Bible and Book of Mormon to support the religion they are based upon, a big problem I have concerning is the validity of the BoM, there are numerous errors found in the text, which coincidentally has been corrected by the church multiple times, which I find odd considering it was translated with God's own help, and is according to the church the most perfect book ever written. My basic stance on religion is fairly broad, I have yet to find a religion that I will follow, most religions while having a good and decent core of followers seem to be based on illogical beliefs. I do believe there is a God, Creator, whatever you want to call him/her/it, but I certainly havn't found a religion that describes him/her/it as I believe he is. I see a lot of basis for athiests who use scientific knowledge/theories as proof of there being no deity, but I run into the crack in the foundation of science, which is logic. Logically, there must be a cause and effect, which is logically impossible, if it were true, then there is neither a beginning nor an end, simply an infinite line, which also cannot exist. I dont see how a deity could get around this either, which makes me think there is something wrong with our logic, or wrong with the universe, take your pick:) (btw, if anyone can answer the question about how we can logically exist I would be greatly appreciative. It bugs me tremendously, I just cant figure it out.)
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Original freak and Luke wolf have each given excellent answers, one in moere detail but both cover the essential points.
As they said debating is a skill that can both be taught and learned.
It is an essential tool in ones working life. debates need not and preferably are not long winded. Cover points succinctly and move on. always have the end point in view and take as direct rout as you can .if you opponent seems to have made an error don't counter at once, get them to expand the point and dig them selves a deeper hole, before countering .
Most Colleges and universities over here have debating clubs or societies.
If you can, join one, you will find if full of the brightest future winners. and well worth any time spent.
Terry
-__________________________________--
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
 

Professor

Member
apotheosis? - i assume you are an atheists via your screen name since it means away from god or God.

I've studied Mormonism for probably more years then you've been alive. Try to ask them to reconcile the doctrine of Physical Sex and the Mormon god with Mary. The issue is simple, Salvation by Grace, or by Sex.

Professor
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Professor said:
apotheosis? - i assume you are an atheists via your screen name since it means away from god or God.

I've studied Mormonism for probably more years then you've been alive. Try to ask them to reconcile the doctrine of Physical Sex and the Mormon god with Mary. The issue is simple, Salvation by Grace, or by Sex.

Professor

What are you talking about?

Anyway. I'd say that the most important thing to do when you debate is to know your position and that of your opponent. If you don't really know what you beleive, you can't very well debate your side. Knowing your opponent's helps you to forsee what they will bring up and sort of have your side prepared. Also, stay calm. It is very bad for you if you get loud and angry. It only makes you seem like you are losing and having to defend yourself with volume, instead of actual facts.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Learning to debate by argueing with your parents is a great way to get grounded!! Seriously, actually if you want to learn to debate internet forums are a great resource. Best advice I can give is have facts to back up your opinions be open minded enough to know when you are wrong or on shaky ground, list sources use (thus avoiding plagerism), use a premise conclusion format. If you have a chance google the term "logical fallacies" and be familiar with them. They will not only be useful so you avoid them but also to call others on it when they use them. Good luck and hope you enjoy debating.
 
Ever thought of not debating them and actually listening to there message. A missionaries purpose is not to debate. Missionaries only come to you because they want you to feel what they feel. The happiness they have. A missionary is sent of God to bring others to him. We do not intend to prove anyone wrong but to prove that Christ is the way to heaven and that we have found him.
 

Apotheosis

Member
I've been in the church from birth till I turned 14 and decided the religion wasnt for me, but the local church doesnt seem to accept that, I've heard the message thousands of times, half of my relatives were or are missionaries, but to be honest I'm tired of just listening, I want to articulate why I dont agree, and thus I wish to learn to debate.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Apotheosis said:
I've been in the church from birth till I turned 14 and decided the religion wasnt for me, but the local church doesnt seem to accept that, I've heard the message thousands of times, half of my relatives were or are missionaries, but to be honest I'm tired of just listening, I want to articulate why I dont agree, and thus I wish to learn to debate.
Something else you might like to try - writing down what you feel (emotionally) about certain points. You can also have a 'for' and 'against' columns - and list all the points you can think of under each dsection to see what you really feel.:)
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
debating - i think the key is to know when to debate and when not to

if someone is completely out of line or says something that you completely do not agree with then challenge them - but my advise is not to go looking for a debate

my main advise is that when you are debating - lay out your points in an easy to follow order - give examples to explain them - and evidence if you can

the other thing i would say is you must decide what you believe and follow that through - and be prepared to learn the critique of your own faith - i know my faith is easily criticised and i too look for flawwes in my religious arguements to further my own skills and my own beliefs

but saying that - know your enemy

i am absolutely disgusted by the "british nationalist" party - but i read their election leaflets and understand their ideology because i cannot argue against them if i dont understand them - otherwise my arguemenst become generalised and based in my own stereotypes and prejudices

and my last point - attack the arguement, not the arguer

i think it pretty much explains itself lol

God Bless
xXx
 

tnutz

Member
Professor said:
apotheosis? - i assume you are an atheists via your screen name since it means away from god or God.

I've studied Mormonism for probably more years then you've been alive. Try to ask them to reconcile the doctrine of Physical Sex and the Mormon god with Mary. The issue is simple, Salvation by Grace, or by Sex.

Professor
I also have no idea what you are talking about Professor. As for Apotheosis, are you looking only to debate against Mormons, or are there other religions you don't agree with? If you want to be powerful in your debate, make sure agree 100% with what you are debating for. If you aren't sure where you stand, and just want to debate for the sake of it, then prepare to lose.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Something I just remembered that makes a great debate weapon. Let your opponent dig thier own whole they cant get out of. If they make a point that is obviously wrong, and still insist on it, lead them to say something where they say what they think, then they realize they are wrong and you are right. I did that last night with a co-worker. We was trying to figure which direction this one city is. I said Im not sure exactly were, but I know its south from here. My co-worker said No its west. I said, yeah, but you still have to go south. He went on saying west, until he was starting to get POed about it and said, S*** DUDE! I can go west from here to get there then I turn.........SOUTH!!!! One of the easiest ways to defeat someone in a debate.
 

Professor

Member
Apotheosis,

If you'd like to see how to debate read some of my posts. Since I've defeated and have become victorious in every single one.

Unfortantly I keep getting warnings and might get banned because a certain moderator seems to not like me very much. I'm not sure what the pahblem is?

The Professor.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Professor said:
Apotheosis,

If you'd like to see how to debate read some of my posts. Since I've defeated and have become victorious in every single one.
:eek: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Apotheosis, take my advice,...DON'T take his advice.:D
 
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