The Rapture

Thief said:

The word 'rapture' does not appear in my King James....did I miss it?

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Muffled said:

Let us start at ground zero. The title of the doctrine is "The Rapture" by taking only one small phrase from the scripture "caught up" which is what rapture means and here it is in the OP text highlighted: 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds

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S-word said:

Nah mate I don't talk to myself, I am in the process of answering a barrage of questions put to me in 8 separate posts by AKA, whether or not he reads them is irrelevant, I welcome the oppurtunity to lay my spiritual unleavened bread upon the table which stands before the curtain to the inner most sanctuary of Gods temporary tabernacle/tent, which is the body of mankind, for the kingdom of God is within you.

quote=Thief; The question in my last post was fairly simple and straight forward.
Do you think heaven is earthbound?

No! But I do believe that mankind is not the end of the evolutionary process and that the new species that comes from Man, "The Son of Man" who is a brilliant androgynous being, will soon be seen on earth.

And I believe that the Son of Man, Is the spirit that is now developing within the body of mankind, and is born into the spiritual realm with the death of the Physical body in which he develops. I also beleive that the Great simulacrum, which is in reality, the blue print to the "Son of Man" is no more than the compilation of all the righteous spirits. And it is to He, "The Son of Man," that all the sins of the body of mankind in which he developed, are ascribed.

I believe that he gives his immotal body by releasing all the greater spirits that are in the spiritual enclosure that is his immortal body, which is torn asunder and poured out as fire upon his elect and chosen ones, who, Like Jesus the first fruits, who was the compilation of all the good spirits that had fallen asleep in righteousness after the paying the blood price for any mistakes that they had made in their lives, and they who were Jesus, who had been judged in the flesh as all are judged, did not have to die a second death, and Jesus was the first to receive his share of the immortal body as seen in the blinding body of light in which he appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus and revealed himself to be "Jesus of Nazareth." and we who believed the words of our Lord and saviour, who revealed himself to us through his obedient servant Jesus, who did nor spoke one word, except that which he was commanded by our Lord and saviour, who now bear the image of the first man Adam, will bear also the image of the second Adam..

This does not mean that the Son of Man, our Lord and saviour dies, but that he is born on earth in a multicelled body of light, and all creatures that preceded his new Temple, which is his new multi celled body of light, even Mankind the Lord of creatures, who is the old tabernacle of the eternal evolving spirit of our Lord God, will bow before the new Temple of God on earth.

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S-word said:

Nope, you did'nt, as the translation of our mortal physical bodies into immortal spiritual bodies at the sound of the last trumpet as spoken of by Paul in 1st Corinthians 15: 52-53; is not called the "Rapture" in the Bible. "Rapture, is the name that was given to the translation much later on, that's all.

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AK4 said:

Please show me in the scripture [not bible translations] that calls the great tribulation THE great tribulation. Oh long after? Just what does the word immediate mean then here?
Mt 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days
So already we can see your whole premise is off and the unscriptural heresy of this rapture doctrine is.

You are reading the scriptures with physical carnal eyes, making everything literal when in fact Jesus says “[all] My words are spirit” and that He “only spoke to the masses in parables”.

Think about this and let the scriptures answer for you and not mans reasonings. If you answer these questions with the scriptures it will tell you where and what heaven is, where is the His true temple, where God dwells and know that that physical carnal abominable city over there in Jerusalem is not where Gods temple is. Also
1. Where does Gods dwell?
2. Where is the temple of God?
3. Who and What is the temple of God?
4. Where is the heaven? [heaven through out scripture is almost always plural]

I would love to see a chapter and verse that says satan gets a physical body. This unscriptural lie of the church has no bearing at all in scripture.

Here should be proof to show how this Christian hoax is just that, A HOAX. Do you really believe that that carnal city full of spiritual slobs of all religions is capable of being peaceful? Do you really think Jesus is coming in the way the Christian hoaxers say He will come to save a people who deny Him, don’t believe in Him and don’t follow His commands? Do you believe the hoax that they are Gods chosen people? Do you know how many verses of scripture you have to throw out for this? It just amazes me that people have fallen for the lie about the jews and the nation of Israel.

Host body??? Oh now in comes the unscriptural trinity doctrine. In otherwords Jesus’ body was just a cadaver and He Himself never died. *sigh*. Also you might as well throw out some more scriptures.

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Most theologians don't include this passage in reference to the Rapture Doctrine.
However in v31 we do see a trumpet and a gathering of the elect. Since the Thessalonian passage says that the alive are caght up "together" it could be considered a gathering. Since there is a shout of an Archangel in THessalonians there is agreement that at least one angel is involved.

The word immediate does not necessarily refer to the gathering since it is joined by an "and" which does not have to be an inclusive "and". Most theologians do not tie in the sign of the Lord 's coming with the Rapture.

I ran this supposed passage on a Biblical search and found nothing. I think you are making it up. He only spoke to them in parables? I suppose you think you can scriptually support that view.

1. God dwells in Heaven and with His elect.
2. The only temple of God is in Heaven.
3. The elect are His temple on earth and there is a spiritual temple in Heaven
4. It is at the center of the space time continuum but outside of time itself

As for the original statment: "his Temple in Jerusalem", it appears to refer to the temple that the Anti-christ will sit down in and call himself God.

I suspect that this is inductive reasoning. SInce the devil wishes to supplant God, he finds it neccessary to imitate Him.

I can't imagine what you are referring to. I absolutely believe that a charismatic figure able to bring fire down from the sky will be able to mesmerize the people of Jerusalem into being peaceful even with Muslims. He is after all a master of deception.

The Bible says so and it appears to be a first fruit Rapture. (As He says He comes to the Jews first) God calls the Jews His chosen people. I know how many verses support this.

There is scriptural support for that view. There is no need to thow out any scriptures.

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S-word said:

S-word said:

See King James, Amplified, and Revised Standard translations for starters, Matthew 24: 21: “For then shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” Immediately after the tribulation, “which tribulation” the great tribulation,

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Oh so lets see, THE great tribulation, when did it happen? Did it happen back there in the first century to all those believers? One could argue yes, hence preterists. Now you have a problem that its supposed to happen right before Christs return. Did He return back then? No. But surely they suffered great tribulation back then more than anyone else before them right?

Wait your argument is that THE great tribulation is to happen right before the end of the age. Yes a half truth because not only was it great tribulation for them back then it will also be for those before the end of age so therefore trying to make a THE great tribulation is only half truth. Its similar to saying that Christ was only talking to the ALL churches in Revelation only at that time period and wasnt talking to all the churches at this time period or any other time period.

I’d like to know where you’re getting your stuff from, as evidently, it does not come from the Holy scriptures,

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I get my stuff only from the scriptures, you go to extra biblical stuff, especially the book of Enoch.

My lord and saviour cannot die,

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Another major problem of christians because they DONT BELIEVE THE WORDS OF OUR SAVIOUR. What does He plainly say


Re 1:18 - I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen;

What else does He say


Mt 15:8 - 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.

Exactly what you and most christians do. He said He died. DIED. DEAD. Do you understand what the word died and dead mean? Apparently not, so you and your fellow mates dont believe Him. In yall words the Lord did not really die, but oh yall are quick to say He died for your sins. Can we say hypocrits? Yall do the same thing when other people die. Oh yall say so and so died, but in the same breath will say "oh but i know so and so is watching me from heaven". HYPOCRITS

the eternal eighth heaven

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Another thing i would like to see a chapter and verse on. Good luck. If you cant find [and you wont] then someone is speaking unscriptural heresy.

where they will go through the process of re-incarnation,

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The more and more you write the more and more unscriptural heresy comes out. Just show me where reincarnation fits with this

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Heb 9:27 -And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this {comes} judgment, [/FONT]

in which they will lose all memory of who they were.

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Ah you may think you have scriptural support for this but it takes a higher understanding to know what those verses mean. And since you apparently dont know the scriptures, Gods plan and the meaning of this life, you wont understand those scriptures either.

This is the second death, the first death being, in that the elements from which their bodies were created, are returned to the universal body of God from which they were borrowed, and the mind/spirit that Is “you” which had developed within that body through all the information taken in through the senses of that body, will be wiped from the eternal soul/life-force of God in your re-incarnation in the next universal body,

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Simply understanding of the words "learn" should let you know if what we learn in this life will be wiped away.

as explained in 2nd Peter 3: 10; who was taught by Jesus/the man Enoch reborn on earth.

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Another one i would like a chapter and verse on.

But to continue Titus 1: 3; “The commandments of God our saviour.” Titus 2: 10; “So as to bring credit to the teaching about God our saviour.” Jude 25, who quotes verbatim from the words of righteous Enoch, whose righteous truths are recorded in Gods Holy word, opening the door for all to quote from the word of righteous Enoch the evolved Godhead to this universal body, who has never experienced death, not even when his obedient servant, Jesus, the man Enoch reborn, who, while dying on the cross cried out to Enoch, "The Son of Man," our God and indwelling Father and Son ancestral spirit and saviour, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”?

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Oh what was i thinking. I thought it said "My God, my God" not my enoch, my enoch. Unbelievable.

Jude 25; “To the only God our saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority etc.” Jesus/Enoch reborn, is the saviour of his body of believers. Our God, Enoch, The Son of Man, is the saviour of all,

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Again you might as well be catholic and pray to mary also. Do you understand this verse at all

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Ac 4:12 - "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." [/FONT]

Who he raises from death

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What?! Didnt you just say above that He didnt die? "My lord and saviour cannot die". Oh the hypocrisy of christians. So confused so full of contradictions.

This I will explain in greater detail after you have been given the data by which you, (Well maybe not you) but the majority of others who reads these posts will be able to then understand.

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Please dont. You are so confused and deluded you dont know what is really the truth.

Acts, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who is our saviour, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus." Acts 17: 31; "For (God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he will judges the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death." But apparently there are people like you, who refuse to accept that proof.

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Again you quote verses that shoot you right in the foot. I will quote you again

"My lord and saviour cannot die". --S-word

Make up your mind, man.

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S-word said:

First of all, Lets straighten out you little twisted and distorted mind. Jesus is not the God of Abraham Isaac, and Jacob.

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That’s your problem, you don’t know who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Scripture after scripture I have proved this in other threads that Jesus is the God of the OT. Paul, Peter, James, John, Mark, Luke etc etc and most importantly Jesus says this yet all you who claim to be “knowledgable” are made stupid

Rom 1:21 but vain were they made in their reasonings, and darkened is their unintelligent heart.
22 Alleging themselves to be wise, they are made stupid,

Instead of showing you and everyone else again like I have in the other threads who Jesus is and who is the Father, with all your ramblings I can destroy your whole argument with one of many like verses and ask one question. The verse

Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has unfolded {Him.}

Oh another one to cover if anyone has ever heard God either
Joh 5:37 - And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Now with those two verses setting a principle, maybe God will give you eyes to see when asked this question. If no man has seen or heard God at anytime, then who is the one talking to all those people in the OT and the one some seen back in the OT i.e. Moses. Oh since im nice I will throw in another little help. These verses are talking about God the Father who is invisible and cannot be seen or heard which is stated throughout scripture.


Peter confirms that Jesus was that man as is revealed in his reference to Jesus in Acts 3: 19-22; “ Repent then and turn to God (Not Jesus), so that He (God) will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and He (The Lord God our saviour) will send Jesus. Who is the Messiah that He (The Lord) has already chosen for you. Who will send Jesus as the chosen Messiah? The Lord God our saviour of course.


Gosh if you only knew the scriptures then you would know how many scriptures you need to throw out to make your theology work. How many scriptures from Genesis to Revelation do you just disregard or as written by Isaiah DESPISE to make it work? What does Jesus say who was given power and authority to forgive sins? Who does Jesus say to turn to for forgiveness? Who is the one Jesus said the many will come to in that day and that person will to them “I never knew you, depart from me?” Who is the one who said He was the I AM and the mob of people fell back when He said this? Who judges the world in righteousness? Do you say Jesus is? Do you say God is? Well if you cant put 2 and 2 together then by gosh I don’t know what can help you. Who was the Rock that the Israelites followed? Read the scriptures and stop being stiff-necked.


Please Note the word chosen as we will see this word used many times in reference to the man Jesus, who was given divine glory by our saviour, “Who I Am,” the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and who is now incontestably divine, and has been taken to heaven, in reference to the man Jesus;

Your mind is in all confusion. You quote the same verses that prove Jesus is the God of the OT and yet you can even see it right in front of your face. You just stated that “who I AM” is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and was taken back into heaven and Jesus is the ONLY one who has ascended to heaven and you still don’t see it. Unbelievable.

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, The God of our ancestors"? No! They certainly did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the crowd who surrounded him, cried out, "Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord." Verifying that they believed Jesus, to be the man that God had prophesied in Deuteronomy 18: 18; that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people, to speak in his name.


Oh ye of little faith! This same people who Jesus said had little faith, who didn’t understand the parables, who didn’t know that the very Messiah they waited to come and they crucified was the very one who said in the OT “I will come”. Oh but you don’t believe the scriptures that say this also.

Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death. Did you notice that word “Chosen” again?

Duh. Who has the Father chosen to be the judge of the world? The Lord God. What did Jesus say again

Mt 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto ME, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to ME in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Now 1 (God, the Lord) plus 1 (say unto ME, LORD LORD) EQUALS what? Its not that hard now. Heres another 1 ( the Saviour/Judge of the world is God) plus 1 (Acts 17:31 For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen.) equals….. Whew, even my 6 year old could figure this out.

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S-word said:

Here we go again, one of these days, perhaps you might actually read the words that are written in the bible, words written in physical ink and not the spiritual fantasies that are invented in your own twisted and distorted mind.

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Hebrew 5: 7-10; “In his life on earth Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death. Because he was humble and devoted, God heard him. (God heard the young man Jesus who was afraid of death, not because, as you falsely claim, that he was his first born son, but because of his Godly fear, or as other translations put it, ‘because of his humility and devotion.’) But even though he was A son of God, (Not God’s Son, or THE son of God, but A son of God, check it out in the Appendix of Strong’s Concordance, or The King James, Amplified, or The Revised Standard translations. All Israelites are sons of God according to God’s word, see Psalms 82: 6; ‘You are gods,’ I said; ‘all of you are sons of the Most High.’) he learned through suffering to be obedient, when he was made perfect (through his obedience, and could then be used as the host body through which our Lord and saviour “Who I Am,” could then revealed himself through the life, the miracles and the words that would be seen through his obedient servant and earthy image, who did, nor spoke one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded by the Lord our saviour.) he became the source through whom salvation could be gained from our Lord God and saviour, who rose Jesus from death and will raise we, who are united to him also.


Oh so you still just throw out the verse from Revelation that shows that He was distinct from the other “sons of God” and that He was THE FIRST, THE BEGINNING OF ALL OF GODS [THE FATHER] CREATION as if it has no bearing and isn’t a universal truth like “God is love”. “Consider themselves to be wise they are made stupid in their reasonings”. Oh btw, since I showed you that verse are you still believing that satan was the first of Gods creation and making him an “angel of light” like his ministers [and to think it’s the Christians who do this more than any other religion]


It was then, after he had become perfect through his obedience to his indwelling ancestral spirit, that God declared him to be high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek,

Oh what happened to Enoch here as you praise him?
but Jesus did not take upon himself the honour of being high priest, instead, God made him high priest with these words “TODAY, I have become your Father.” See Hebrew 5: 5.
When was Jesus chosen as the heir to our indwelling ancestral spirit, "Enoch"? When he was made perfect through his sufferings, and had learnt to be obedient to no other God than "who I Am," or speaking in the second person, "Who He Was."
Ah another false Christian doctrine [this one is catholic I believe] you are parroting although in a little different way, the immaculate conception as if Jesus was first created at marys birth. Unbelievable. “Those who have eyes to see”

Do you realise, that there are people out there who claim to have read the Bible, and know that Jesus said many times, that the miracles and the words he spoke were not his, but those of his/our Father with who he was one, “Who through the mouth of his obedient servant Jesus, who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by the Lord our saviour, cried out “Father! Give me glory now, the same glory I had with you before this world was made,” You wouldn’t credit it would you, how ignorant can some people be?


Yes I know this, but its these same people who don’t believe the same thing was done through His apostles and prophets too. Do you realize that by these people doing this they try there best to use it to support their myth of freewill also? If our Lord and Saviour who is to be our example had no freewill why in the heck would one believe that they would have it?

People who believe that any thing that our faithful brother said, was of his own authority and were not the words of the Lord our saviour, who commanded Jesus exactly what to say, are so confused, they don’t even know that they are confused.

Same thing for those who don’t understand that Jesus and the Father are one in spirit and that Jesus is the exact stamped copy of the Father and that whatever Jesus said about the Father also pertains to Him and that they are not part of some stupid trinity and that the Jehovah Elohim is the just as much God as El is, that when you speak of one you speak of both of them and so on and so forth.

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S-word said:

Are you saying that Paul did not say …

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Did I ever say this? This is absolutely true. Just because a truth is mentioned somewhere else besides the bible does not make that whole book and everything in it true.

Ah, how technology will advance during the thousand years of peace, The Sabbath, the seventh period of one thousand years from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that first day at the age of 930.

Do you not know we are in the seventh day? The day when God is ceasing from His work. Do I need to show you this also?


Did you know that the twelve patriarchs of Israel recorded their last Testaments, which can be found in the Pseudipegrapha of the Old Testament? But of Course not, because your Mother, that woman who sits on seven hills and is symbolic of that great city, in which sits the head of the universal church that was established in 325 AD, by the non-christian Constantine, has forbidden you, to eat from that spiritual food, and you, her obedient servant, are obedient to her commands and will not eat of any other than the canon of food that she supplies for you, her child.

Sad sad. I remember I used to believe the mantra spewing out by those false prophets of Christendom who said that it must be the catholic church. I see you still do also. Now heres some enlightment for you and maybe you will see the connection. If you want to know who, what or where is this “great city”, the answer right there in Revelation and its in this verse where the clue lies

Re 11:8 - And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Did you catch that? Theres more clues in there. Who does God say is like or actually WORSE than Sodom, Gommorah and Egypt? Look in Ezekiel youll find your answer.

The only place that you find any mention of Azazel, is in the book of Enoch the Prophet from whose righteous words, the twelve patriarchs who all died in Egypt, quoted from.

Yes I am aware of what the book of enoch says. But too bad you cant see where this book has so many false teachings in it


Now I’d like to read to you, ….

Too many books man, too many books. Im not saying it wrong to research stuff and that one is to just believe blindly but one needs to have the ability to glean out the truth among such false books and papyri. But in order for one to be able to do this they must KNOW the truth first.

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AK4 said:

Exactly, you lost already and contrary to the scriptures. Jesus is the firstborn son of God the Father

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Correct! The false conception that Jesus is the firstborn son of God is contrary to scripture, unless of Course you happen to believe that God bore his first son only two thousand years ago, when after the man Jesus had been brought to perfection through suffering, and was then declared to be High Priest by our Lord and Saviour, who is “The Son of Man,” who is the first born son of God, who made Jesus high priest with these words “You are My son, TODAY I have become your Father.” Please explain to us, why, God would say to the man Jesus after he had been brought to perfection and declared to be high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, “TODAY I have become your Father,” if he had already been his Father before the world was made?

"These things says the Amen [Jesus] the faithful and True Witness [Jesus] the beginning of the creation of God" (Rev. 3:14).
"the Origin of God?s creation" (James Moffatt).
"God's creative Original" (Concordant Literal New Testament).
"The Chief of the creation of God" (Young?s Translation).
"the Origin, and Beginning, and Author of God's creation"
(The Amp lified New Testament).

Forget about the later interpolation [Jesus] in brackets, where does it say in Revelation 3:13; that the Amen is Jesus?

"These things says the Amen [Amen /Amon the Ram headed God] the faithful and True Witness [Amen/Amon the Ram headed God] the beginning of the creation of God" (Rev. 3:14).Is this that Lamb of God?


Again, when one has eyes to see they can see the false christian doctrines in the words that people say. In this case we have the false doctrine of lucifer and his fall which in turn produced the doctrine of freewill. And Also Again, when your premise is off, everything else that follows will be off. You have contradicted the scriptures already so everything else you say will be wrong too. What was that you said--- "So sit back and pick your nose and your backside while I continue to reveal your total ignorance to that which is recorded in Gods word". So whos ignorance is showing now and who is the "wise"?

Let me read to you from one of the 366 books dictated by The Son of Man to his chosen earthly scribes in his ascent into the eighth eternal heaven of Light, “The Book of Adam and Eve,” whether or not you believe what the spirit is trying to reveal to you in this story, is up to you.
After Adam had been driven out of paradise and returned to the lower place just after the great event in which the life on earth had been annihilated, from which he had been formed, he cried out to the devil who was tormenting his wife ‘Eve,’ “Why do you torment us so?” And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: “O Adam! All my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens in the midsts of the angels and for thee was I cast down to the earth.’

Adam answered, “What dost thou tell me? What have I done to thee, or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us? The Devil replied, “Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled from that place. When thou wast formed, I was hurled out of the presence of God and banished from the company of the angels. When God blew into thee the breath of life, and thy face and thy likeness were made in the image of God, Michael also brought thee and made us worship thee in the sight of God; and God the Lord (Jahel or Lord to the glory of El the creator) spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.” And Michael went out and called all the angels saying: “Worship the image of God as the (Lord Jah) (God El) hath commanded.” And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said, “Worship the image of God the Lord.” And I answered, “I have no need to worship Adam.” And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, “Why dost thou urge me?” I will not worship an inferior being than me. I am his senior in the creation; before he was made I was already made. It is Adam’s duty to worship me.” (This is the Great pre-human godhead of the most high species which ruled the earth for 3 million odd years, “The Light Of Man,” or the intellect that the first humans were born with.)

When the angels (Godheads to the pre-human animals creatures) who were under me, heard this, they also refused to worship Adam, And Michael saith, “Worship (The Most High and Lord of Creatures) the image of God, but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord God will be wrath with thee.” But he, said, “If he be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the highest (In the evolution) himself.” And God the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on thy account, were we expelled from our abodes into this world and were hurled on the earth. And straight way we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we were grieved when we saw thee in such Joy and luxury (In the Garden of Eden). And with guile I, (The Spiritual godhead of the upright walking serpent) cheated thy wife Eve and caused thee to be expelled through her doing from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory, etc.

Within the body of the first human beings were the spirits or characteristics of the animals through which mankind had evolved from the very first organic molecules that had formed in the primeval soup of the earth even before our sun burst into light and life.

The elect and chosen animal spirits that were gathered into the inner dimension that co-exists within this visible world, of which the brilliant pre-human simulacrum that was being formed in paradise, was their compilation and was the spiritual Androgynous being from which, Adam and Eve were divided.

The Kabbala describes four Adams the two highest of which are celestial and spiritual, "The third Adam is the terrestrial Adam made from the elements (Spirits) of the earth, and placed in the Garden of Eden. This Adam was also an androgene. . . . It had, when first created, a glorious simulacrum or light body, and answers to the Yetzeeratic world."----Ibid., p. 418.

The fourth Adam was the Third Adam as he was after the Fall, when he was clothed with skin, flesh nerves etc. (The elements of the earth) this answers to the Nephesh and Guff, i.e. body, united.
Ibid., p. 418.

It is also written somewhere else in the Pseudepigrapha that the feet of Gods son was on the earth, but his evolving head was in paradise. (This was before the creation of mankind) and the Great heavenly angel of light, who was the evolving godhead of the earthly animals to which all the animal spirits were gathered in death, was Adam/Lucifer, The bright morning star, Lucifer the light the bearer, who lights the way for every person who comes into the world, the Glorious Pre-human Simulacrum, which was the blue print of mankind, the earthly Adam.

But this I know is beyond your ability to understand as yet, because you have not yet come to grips with the human origin of the man Jesus who was the first of many brothers to be given divine glory, and who is now incontestably divine.

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AK4 said:

Where did you get that Joseph was accusing his brothers? Thats not scriptural either. Strike two!

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quote AKA; Where did you get that Joseph was accusing his brothers? Thats not scriptural either. Strike two!

Like I’ve said before, you might be confined to those few books that your mother, the universal church that was established in 325 AD, by the non-christian Constantine, she who sits upon the seven hills of Rome, who chose the Books that you can read from, but I will feed from the total word of God.

Some of the brothers of Joseph hated him, seeing him as daddies little favourite. A dreamer, who told them that one day, his mother, father and all his brothers would bow down before him, according to his dreams, and this was before he was twelve years old, because Joseph was only twelve years old when Rachel his mother, who in his dreams had bowed down before him, died while giving birth to Benjamin his only full brother.

Reading from the Testaments of the twelve Patriarchs, we get some idea of their feeling toward their brother Joseph. Simeon has this to say about the selling of the 17 years old Joseph to the Ishmaelites, The Testament of Simeon 2: 9; For when I went to Shechem to bring ointment for the flocks, and Reuben to Dothan, where our necessaries and all our stores were, Judah my brother sold him to the Ishmaelites. And when Reuben (Who had raped “Bilhah” the mother of Dan) heard these things he was grieved, for he wanted to restore Joseph to his father. But on hearing this I was exceedingly wroth against Judah in that he let him go away alive, and for five months I continued wrathful against Judah. Simeon wanted him dead, badly.

Although, Reuben, Levi and Judah make no mention of the selling of Joseph, Zebulun the twin brother of Dinah, the only daughter of Jacob, who was the seventh child of Leah, the first and only true wife of Jacob and the only one to be buried with him, of the thirteen childen of Jacob, Dinah the seventh child was the dividing of the 6 sons of Leah, from the 6 sons of his three concubines Rachel, Zilpha, and Bilhah, does make mention of it.

The Testament of Zebulun 1: 5; “I covenanted with my brothers not to tell my father what had been done. But I wept in secret many days on account of Joseph, for I feared my brethren, because they all agreed that if one should declare the secret, he would be slain. But when they wished to kill him, I adjured them much with tears not to be guilty of this sin, For Simeon and Gad came against Joseph to kill him, and he said unto them with tears: Pity me, my brethren, have mercy on the bowels of Jacob our father: lay not upon me your hands to shed innocent blood. Zebulun goes on to say, that when Simeon, Dan, and Gad attempted to kill him, he hid behind Zebulun and pleaded with tears for them to have pity on him. Then Reuben stepped forward and said let us not kill him, but instead cast him into one of the dry wells, and there he remained for three days and nights guarded by Zebulun until he was sold. Like Jesus, Joseph was in the bowels of the earth for three days and nights. When Reuben returned and discovered he had been sold, he took the money and ran after the merchants to redeem his brother, but apparently they had left the main route and had taken a short cut.

Dan has this to say 1: 4; “I confess therefore this day to you, my children, that in my heart I resolved to kill Joseph my brother and I rejoiced when he was sold, because his father loved him more than us, For the spirit of Jealousy and vainglory said to me: thou thyself art his son. And one of the spirits of Beliar stirred me up saying: Take this sword, and with it slay Joseph: so shall thy father love thee when he is dead etc.

Gad speaks of the time when Joseph was with him with the flocks of their father, and Gad pursued a bear which had snatched one of the sheep, killing it, but because the lamb was dying and could no be saved, Gad butchered it and shared it with the hired hands, when Joseph returned to his father, he told him that Gad was killing from the flock without the consent of Judah.

Gad goes on to say “regarding this matter I was wroth with Joseph until the day that he was sold. And the spirit of hatred was in me, and I wished not to either hear of Joseph with the ears, or see him with the eyes, because he rebuked us to our faces saying that we were eating of the flock without Judah, For whatsoever things he told our father, he believed them. Often times I wished to kill him, because I hated him from my heart. Moreover I hated him more for his dreams; and I wished to lick him out of the land of the living, even as an ox licketh up the grass of the field.

Quote AKA; Where did you get that Joseph was accusing his brothers? Thats not scriptural either. Strike two!

For whatsoever things he told our father, he believed them. I did not say “falsely accused.” He was a dreamer and a tiddel tat. As you can see, it is scriptural, but in the scripture that have been forbidden to you, by that church of deceivers who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, who would have you believe that Jesus did not come as a human being, but as an immortal god who supposedly entered the womb of their fictitious virgin, where his god created a human like body for him, which was not of the seed of Adam, the earliest ancestor of the family of Human beings.

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AK4 said:

S-word said:

Oh my, co-Creator? Lets just go with that for now. Yes trinitarians think that Jesus always existed or some even say He first came into existence at Mary. Both are wrong.

You’re not that thick are you, that you didn’t understand that I was talking about the belief of the church, who compiled those books, which she allows you to read, and who rejected those books that she forbids you to read? She, to whom you are obedient, teaches that the man Jesus was the co-creator of the Cosmos and that it was his father who prepared a body for him in the womb of their fictitious virgin.

quote=AK4; You say "couldn’t even create a human like body for himself, but had to get his father ".

Yes, I said that the church to who you are obedient, says that he, who they believe was the co-creator of the cosmos, did not create a body for himself, but his father, with whom their fictitious Jesus supposedly helped create the cosmos, prepared a body for him.


quote=AK4; Yes, yes everything Jesus got was from the Father. These are His own words

These are his own words to us also, “You should pray, OUR FATHER, who art in Heaven, etc” His Father is my Father, His God is my God, His saviour, who raised him from death, is my saviour who is able to raise all the brothers of Jesus from death also.

quote=AK4; PLUS Jesus prayed to His Father that the Father "give Him back the glory He had BEFORE the world was".

If you believe that those were not the words of our Lord and saviour as spoken through the mouth of Jesus the Israelite, who he sent in his name, to speak in his name, then you are absolutely ignorant to the word of God.

quote=AK4; Jesus didnt first get a body at Mary,

The human body born of Mary and her half brother, Joseph the Levite, who was sired by Heli the father of Mary also, was named Jesus, so Jesus did get his body from Mary. Where in heavens name do you think his body came from?

quote=AK4; no, He emptied Himself of what He had FOR A LITTLE WHILE [this is what the greek indicates]so He could be lower than the angels so He could die.

The anoint one who, when he was about to come into the world, said to God, “Sacrifices and offering you never asked for, but a body you have prepared for me,” and that body was that of the man Jesus who, as he rose from the baptismal waters, was filled with the spirit of our Lord and saviour, who came down in the form of a dove, to give his immortal body for us.

quote=AK4; You demean Him and His God just the same way they do.

It is you who demean him, by portraying our Lord and saviour as the human that he chose to send in his name and to speak in his name.

quote=AK4; Oh so we might as well throw out the scriptures saying Jerusalem descending from heaven [who is to return "descending from heaven? According to you, its a literal city and not Jesus.], the scriptures saying that the real Jerusalem is in heaven that is the mother of those who believe, etc etc.

You do realise of course that you are talking about the Jerusalem that appears after this physical world has disappeared. Revelation 20: 7; “And when the Thousand years are completed. Satan will be released and he will go forth to deceive the nations and to gather them together to battle: the number of whom are as the sands of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of God’s people, and the beloved literal physical city of Jerusalem, and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Revelation “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth for this physical heaven and earth in which the literal physical Jerusalem that I am referring to, will have passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the New Jerusalem, (Not the old literal physical Jerusalem to which I refer) coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

You have to learn to read, even, the few books of scripture that you have been given permission to read, with understanding, before you enter into a debate with someone who knows what they are talking about.

quote=AK4; Heres a hint, how many "nations" surrounded "Jerusalem" before, during and after the cross? How many "nations" right are at "war" surrounding "Jerusalem"?

After all those wars against Jerusalem, before, during and after the cross, tell us of which of those wars that you speak of, did it happen, that immediately after, the heavens were shaken and the light of the heavenly bodies were turned to blood?

And have you not read that Jesus said in reference to the days of tribulation that would proceed the day of the Lord. “Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am He!’ and ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them. And when you hear of wars and tumults, do not be terrified; for this must all take place first.”

Nation will rise against Nation, and Kingdom against Kingdom; there will be great earth quakes, and in various places famines and pestilences; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven, etc. So we’re still waiting that day of great tribulation.

quote=AK4; Now if you are still stuck in the physical then you will no idea what im talking about will you?

You’re absolutely correct there matey, but what ever you’re on about, it has nothing to do with that which is revealed in the Holy Scriptures.

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S-word said:

And now we begin on post 42, Only 43, 44, 45, 46 and 47 to go.

quote=AK4; In all respect, are you not doing the same thing with some of these scenarios you have presented in this post. Youve taken many things outside the scriptures and added them to it and created a scenario that then becomes way foriegn to the scriptures.

It only appears foreign to those are only allowed to eat from certain spiritual foods, such as yourself who obey your holy mother, who has determined for you the Canon, from which you can eat and has forbidden you to partake of the saving spiritual bread that came down from heaven, which bread has not been polluted by her added yeast. (Interpretations and added falsehoods such as the virgin birth, and the teachings that Jesus was not of the seed of Adam etc.) I eat of the unleavened bread that came down from heaven, which to you, who live in obedience to her, the diet upon which my spirit grows, is totally foreign to you, who have been convinced by your holy mother, that my spiritual food is only lies, for as words are spirit, so must be lying words.


quote=AK4; you are adding to the Word of God, in otherwords you are mixing lies with truth and thats the worse deception there is. These outside books are lies mixed with truth and then you are bringing those into the scripture.

If you think that the words recorded in the Pseudipegrapha of the Old Testament are lies, then tell your holy mother to ban the epistle of Jude, who is a half brother to Jesus and James the Righteous. For Jude quotes verbatim from the words of Righteous Enoch, who, after Adam, the Father spirit in the body of mankind that descended from him was rejected and his body was submerged in the baptismal waters of the earth from which the new inner Man arose.

Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives are all direct descendants of Enoch, the only man redeemed from the previous world as spoken of by 2nd Peter 3: 5; as they are all descendants of Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion, and Giadad.

The Father spirit that dwells behind the veil to the innermost sanctuary of every person (Tabernacle/tent, for the kingdom of God is within you) who has descended from Noah, is the spirit of Enoch, to which all the spirits of his descendants are gathered in his evolution as he ascended to the ends of all things, where he witnessed the heavens burn up and fall as massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth, into the Great Abyss/Black Hole, which the escorting angel told him was the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven. And it was He, the Son of Man who descended into his dead past, and to all those who received him as their God, he gave to them the power to become the sons of God.

Abraham was the first to accept the Son of Man as his God, and it was to Abraham that He said, “In blessing, I will bless you, and in multiplying, I will multiply you.” In other words, it would be through the genetic line of Abraham that the Sons of God would be born of God’s spirit.

From Noah, 'the Lord and spiritual centre of all his descendants,' “The first Melchizedek,” to Abraham, there are 10 generations, and when Abraham was born, not one of his post flood ancestors had died and been gathered to the indwelling spirit of Enoch, Abraham who was true to who he was, was a duplication of the pre-flood man, Enoch as he was at that point in time. And the good descendants of Noah who had fallen asleep in righteousness, were gathered to the bosom of Abraham, to the indwelling evolving spirit of Enoch, who was the compilation and spiritual enclosure of all the righteous ancestral spirits in the man Jesus. And Jesus, who had learnt through suffering to be obedient to his indwelling ancestral Father spirit, had become a duplication of the evolving Son of Man as he was at that particular point in his evolution.

When Jesus who, by these words from our lord and saviour, “Today I have become your Father,” was declared high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, was made dead in the flesh but alive in spirit, he went and preached the Good News to the dead also. From the body of Noah, he preached to those who were disobedient in the days before the flood. And there, within the kingdom of God, he will remain evolving until the death of the human body of mankind, and the chosen and elect will be transformed and meet him in heaven.

“Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son and his body was as white as snow and as red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, (Just as Eve was terrified when she first saw Cain the shinning one and thought to kill him) and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.

Jesus who, while the baby Noah was still in the hands of the midwife, opened the mouth of that baby and conversed with Enoch the righteous, had been reborn in another postion in time, and inherited the throne of the indwelling spirit in the body of all the descendants of Noah. And Jesus Is now our indwelling ancestral spirit, who is gathering to himself all the spirits of Good people who fall asleep in righteousness, and is the chosen cornerstone to the resurrected simulacrum, who descended and gave to us, his immortal body.

In relation to the land of Zebulun and Naphtali, the land of Galilee where Jesus grew up and where most of the mighty miracles that were seen through him were preformed; “The People who walked in darkness have seen a great light. They lived in a land of shadows, but now light is shining on them etc”--------- ‘A child is born to us! A son is given to us! And He will be our ruler. He will be called, “wonferful Counselor,” “Mighty God,” “Eternal Father,” “Prince of Peace.”

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S-word said:

Quote AKA; I dont know about focusing on the physical, maybe recognising the physical and seeing the spiritual behind it, that is what the scriptures teach. We are to focus on the spiritual not the physical. You are doing the very opposite of the command of the Lord.

Yes, when I look at a rock through my spiritual eyes the rock disappears and all I can see are the molecules, which I had perceived as a rock. But then focusing on the molecules, they begin to vanish and all is see are the swirling animated atoms, which I had perceived as molecules. Then the atoms are spatially separated and all that remains is the sub-atomic particles that I had perceived as atoms, until the sub-atomic particles reveal themselves to be no more than wave particles, which are not true particles at all, as they have zero mass and no electric charge, and appear to be no more than angular and linear momentum.

There through my spiritual eyes I see the mind/spirit that is God, an eternal and boundless cosmic cloud of swirling patterns of thought waves, which patterns I know to be the components of the invisible mind that is God, that through my physical eyes, I see as the eternal and boundless physical cosmos.

Those waves are the quantum of the liquid like electromagnetic energy that was spewed out of the Great Abyss in the billions of billions of degrees, when the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin was spatially separated, by the Big Bang.

It is the Great Gatherer, who unites all the quantum of electromagnetic energy into sub-atomic particles, which he gathers into atoms that are gathered in the creation of the molecules from which this galaxy is created, which is but one in the countless number of galactic bodies, which cluster of galaxies are being gathered to the Great Abyss, which is the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven.

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S-word said:

If you worry about the physical things you won’t have to worry about the spiritual things. Can you bring your children up to be valuable members of our society? Does your neighbour have enough food to keep body and soul together? Does His family have enough warm clothing to survive the winter? Does the old pensioner up the road need someone to mow his lawn, or paint his house? Does you wife need to hear you tell her how much you love her, and perhaps get a cuddle now and then. Look after these physical things and live the physical life that was given you, to the full, and you will have fulfilled all the spiritual obligations. You can have all the knowledge in the world, you may be able to recite the bible backwards, but if you do not love those in who your God dwells, then you are lost my dear friend, lost.

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Preach on preacher man.

Except that you have shown yourself to be ignorant to God’s word and you are making a fool of yourself with your ridiculous contradictions to the truth as revealed in Gods word.

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Me ignorant? Do i need to point out again your own words that directly contradicts the scriptures? What was that you said "satan was Gods first creation"? Can you get more ignorant than that?

I don’t know what you’re talking about mate, if one bows down before images made to look like mortal man, they are worshiping the created, and there was no reason to go further. And the only one to whom I bow the knee and to whom I am obedient, is He, who was in the beginning and has become “Who I Am.”

He is connected to the beginning by an unbroken genetic thread of life, ascending through time in the many different life forms that are my ancestors, to become who I am. I picked up a fossil and O what a buzz, to think---in my hand, was who I once was. “Who I Am,” with who I am one, has never died and can never die, it is for this reason that I say;

Get behind me you charlatan priests and you shams, for I am true to my God, to MY God “Who I Am.”
Cos I’m not who I was, nor who I will be, for “Who I Am,” is the name that my God gave to me.

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Again

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Ac 4:12 - "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." [/FONT]

Try sticking to the scriptures and not these other books and you might stand a chance. Oh let me teach you a principle that almost all christians DONT BELIEVE as we go into this

Those other Books as you call them are some of the 366 books that Enoch wrote while in the inner invisible dimension that co-exists within this visible three dimensional world. Those books were written by earthy scribes while under the control of the ascending spirit in the body of mankind. After the 365 year old Enoch was striped of his earthly garment and anointed with the sweet smelling ointment of God, he was commanded to write down the name of every soul that would ever live, and to record the position of each soul into all eternity, for all souls are prepared to eternity. Enoch was the author of the Book of Life. But also the book of destruction.

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Okay lets put to bed all the enoch worship you are doing. Because its just ridiculous. THESE ARE THE VERY WORDS OF CHRIST

And NO MAN [pay close attention to the phrase "no man," seeing that Enoch WAS A MAN] has ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the SON OF MAN which is in heaven" (John 3:13).

Now is Christ a liar? Alright then. Now point number two

"ALL THESE DIED [including Enoch, verses 5-6, and Elijah, who was one of the "prophets," vese 32] in faith, NOT having received the promises..." (Heb. 11:13).

Now listen carefully. All your statements about Enoch is contradicting at least these two scriptures and theres more. But the point being is do you remember that principle i showed you "God who does not lie"? Now either the scriptures are true and whatever you are getting from the book of enoch is false or they both are false because they contradict each other. Now please, tuck the covers over your enoch worship and turn off the lights because there is no truth in what you present here.

It is not I that contradicts scripture,

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Now again i have shown you contradicting scripture. First the satan thing and now Enoch ascending to heaven, still alive and being in heaven.

Out of your own mouth you recognised that Jesus didnt say anything on His own yet to keep your "idol of the heart" of this enoch teaching you will "DESPISE MY WORD" when Jesus Himself says

And NO MAN [pay close attention to the phrase "no man," seeing that Enoch WAS A MAN] has ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the SON OF MAN which is in heaven" (John 3:13).


Oh btw, "which is in heaven" from that verse is spurious and not in the oldest complete manuscripts so just a little fyi

http://www.davidcox.com.mx/library/...tantin - Discovery of Sinaitic Manuscript.pdf

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Muffled said:

[
Most theologians don't include this passage in reference to the Rapture Doctrine.

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Gee I wonder why. Could it be because it makes their theory invalid?

The word immediate does not necessarily refer to the gathering since it is joined by an "and" which does not have to be an inclusive "and". Most theologians do not tie in the sign of the Lord 's coming with the Rapture.

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So to make their theology work they either add or subtract to the Word of God. That right there should tell you enough about putting your trust in these theologians.

I ran this supposed passage on a Biblical search and found nothing. I think you are making it up. He only spoke to them in parables? I suppose you think you can scriptually support that view.

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Mt 13:3 And he spake many things unto them in parables,

Mt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Mt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mt 13:35 - That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Mt 13:53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.

Mt 21:45 - And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Mt 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

Mr 3:23 - And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

Mr 4:2 - And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,

Mr 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mr 4:13 - And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

Mr 4:33 - And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.

Mr 12:1 - And he began to speak unto them by parables.

1. God dwells in Heaven and with His elect.
2. The only temple of God is in Heaven.
3. The elect are His temple on earth and there is a spiritual temple in Heaven
4. It is at the center of the space time continuum but outside of time itself

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Try answering these again with scripture not mans reasonings. You are speaking the very milk of the Word. Of course God dwells in heaven, now where and what is heaven? Where is His temple? You didn’t answer any of the questions completely correct, and #4 is completely wrong.

As for the original statment: "his Temple in Jerusalem", it appears to refer to the temple that the Anti-christ will sit down in and call himself God.

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There is no THE anti-christ. Show me a chapter and verse that says THE anti-christ.

I suspect that this is inductive reasoning. SInce the devil wishes to supplant God, he finds it neccessary to imitate Him.

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Do you really believe God, an Almighty, omnipotent, all powerful, all everything God would be in a battle with something He created? Do you really think that it would be a battle in the first place? Its tantamount to saying you could try to dethrone God or be in a battle with God.

I can't imagine what you are referring to. I absolutely believe that a charismatic figure able to bring fire down from the sky will be able to mesmerize the people of Jerusalem into being peaceful even with Muslims. He is after all a master of deception.

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People also believe there is a mother nature, aliens, and fairies, so just because you absolutely believe something that doesn’t make it true.

Master of deception—think about it, what is nearly everyone on this world at home with that truly the scripture that says satan will deceive THE WHOLE WORLD with? The one thing that the whole world is deceived on, even the elect at one point in time? Do you need a hint? Well it definitely is not a charismatic figure able to bring fire down from the sky that will be able to mesmerize the people of Jerusalem into being peaceful even with Muslims. Seriously do you think anyone would be fooled by that, let alone the whole world? Its like saying David Koresh could have deceived the whole world when he said he was Jesus. Come on the devil is a lot more clever than that.

The Bible says so and it appears to be a first fruit Rapture. (As He says He comes to the Jews first) God calls the Jews His chosen people. I know how many verses support this.

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Which then you need to find what is the scriptural answer to what is a jew and what is a gentile. There you go, question 5.

What is a jew and what is a gentile?

Christs words are spirit. Do you know what that means?

BTW dont be afraid of being called a racist as S-word called me even though i said nothing about a race of people niether did i say anything that was racists in the first place.

There is scriptural support for that view. There is no need to thow out any scriptures.

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How many doctrines are made from the scriptures yet turn out to be false? There is scriptural support that there is not one, not two, but three tithes in the OT, yet tithing is unscriptural under the NT.

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S-word said:

Correct! The false conception that Jesus is the firstborn son of God is contrary to scripture, unless of Course you happen to believe that God bore his first son only two thousand years ago,

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Okay so now you call that scripture false. Well what can i say then to someone who doesnt even believe the scriptures. Did i ever say that Jesus was firstborn 2000 yrs ago? Does the scriptures even teach such a thing? NO. "Give me back the glory I had BEFORE the world was" "the BEGINNING of Gods creation" "the FIRSTFRUIT" "the FIRST and the Last" "ALPHA and Omega" "the BEGINNING and end" "BEFORE Abraham was I AM" "made A LITTLE WHILE LOWER than the angels" "He EMPTIED Himself" "I CAME OUT FROM GOD [not mary]" etc etc etc. What dont you understand here? Yet you still had the audacity to say satan was the firstborn and then i believe you said enoch was before Jesus also. Gimme a break

when after the man Jesus had been brought to perfection through suffering,

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Show me a chapter and verse that explicitly says this only happened when He came to earth. I wont hold my breath

and was then declared to be High Priest by our Lord and Saviour, who is “The Son of Man,” who is the first born son of God, who made Jesus high priest with these words “You are My son, TODAY I have become your Father.” Please explain to us, why, God would say to the man Jesus after he had been brought to perfection and declared to be high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, “TODAY I have become your Father,” if he had already been his Father before the world was made?

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Please show me where it says that TODAY was the day after His death and resurrection when this was said. Now since it is said in the scriptures that God created Jesus and Jesus created everything else by the Father and since He had this glory BEFORE the world was and the book of the life of the Lamb was written before the world was, with the brain God gave you can you place this "today" 2000yrs ago? And for that where does that place your god enoch?

Whoa, somebody is getting backed into a spiritual corner arent they?
Forget about the later interpolation [Jesus] in brackets, where does it say in Revelation 3:13; that the Amen is Jesus?

"These things says the Amen [Amen /Amon the Ram headed God] the faithful and True Witness [Amen/Amon the Ram headed God] the beginning of the creation of God" (Rev. 3:14).Is this that Lamb of God?

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Talk about grasping for straws AND not PAYING ATTENTION TO ALL THE WORDS. Now, what did you miss in that verse "the faithful and True Witness". Now this shouldnt be hard. Who does the scriptures say is the only who never sinned and is always faithful? Who does it say is the True Witness? Who is Antipas? What does Antipas mean? Find these out and you will have your Amen.

Again, when one has eyes to see they can see the false christian doctrines in the words that people say. In this case we have the false doctrine of lucifer and his fall which in turn produced the doctrine of freewill. And Also Again, when your premise is off, everything else that follows will be off. You have contradicted the scriptures already so everything else you say will be wrong too. What was that you said--- "So sit back and pick your nose and your backside while I continue to reveal your total ignorance to that which is recorded in Gods word". So whos ignorance is showing now and who is the "wise"?

Let me read to you from one of the 366 books dictated by The Son of Man to his chosen earthly scribes in his ascent into the eighth eternal heaven of Light

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No dont. What dont you understand from Jesus' words "NO MAN has ascended to the heavens EXCEPT HE who descended from heaven"? [quick point--do you see right there His preexistence before mary. this should be so obvious by now]

, “The Book of Adam and Eve,”

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Here, you want all the extra biblical stuff you can read that "my mother" has kept out of canon? Here delude yourself some more at reluctant-messenger.com. He has all the books you want including Herbert Armstrongs "Mystery of the Ages". Go ahead and delude yourself some more.

The elect and chosen animal spirits that were gathered into the inner dimension that co-exists within this visible world, of which the brilliant pre-human simulacrum that was being formed in paradise, was their compilation and was the spiritual Androgynous being from which, Adam and Eve were divided.

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:shout Please help this man

The Kabbala describes four Adams the two highest of which are celestial and spiritual, "The third Adam is the terrestrial Adam made from the elements (Spirits) of the earth, and placed in the Garden of Eden. This Adam was also an androgene. . . . It had, when first created, a glorious simulacrum or light body, and answers to the Yetzeeratic world."----Ibid., p. 418.
The fourth Adam was the Third Adam as he was after the Fall, when he was clothed with skin, flesh nerves etc. (The elements of the earth) this answers to the Nephesh and Guff, i.e. body, united.
Ibid., p. 418.

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I see you believe everything that you see and read

was Adam/Lucifer, The bright morning star, Lucifer the light the bearer, who lights the way for every person who comes into the world, the Glorious Pre-human Simulacrum, which was the blue print of mankind, the earthly Adam.

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Again the lucifer hoax story. Are you serious? Have you done your homework on this hoax yet? How can Jesus and some lucifer both be the "bright and morning star". You do know Jesus is called this twice in the NT? Does this verse cut to the your core and make you think again about calling lucifer the bright and morning star?

2 Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light[bright and morning star]. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

But this I know is beyond your ability to understand as yet, because you have not yet come to grips with the human origin of the man Jesus who was the first of many brothers to be given divine glory, and who is now incontestably divine.

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As if only now He is incontestably divine and not before He came to earth.

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