Genesis 1

Mister Emu · Jul 12, 2005

1 First God made heaven & earth 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. 6 And God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." 7 And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. 9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth." And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day. 14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. 20 And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth." 29 And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so. 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.

I really enjoy the King James Version, both because I find the language beautiful, and because I find the translation not too literal so as to be unreadable, nor too contemporary(I can't think of the word, as in when you paraphrase).

I believe that this describes a literal event that occured at a specific point, the beginning of earthly creation.

Steve · Jul 12, 2005

I too agree that this describes a literal event. Although im not sure that KJV is the best translation in parts. Genesis is also written as history and as such should be taken as history by those who claim to belive the Bible.
In Mark 10:6 Jesus makes it clear that he belives that humans were created at the beginning not towards the end. "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'

I think the author of life would know.

http://answersingenesis.org/creation/v16/i1/genesis.asp - Should Genesis be taken literally

jewscout · Jul 13, 2005

I think the Gan Eden story was to show a few things,
The first being the dual nature of Man, being both of the material and spiritual world (this can be seen in the word "vayyitzer" which is usually spelled w/ just 1 "yod")
i think it also shows the first instance where man's yetzer ra (evil inclination)takes control and causes the first transgression against HaShem.
I think it is also there to show where man could be (a spiritual perfection ie Eden) and how through not abiding by HaShem's law man lost that, but that, i believe, it can be regained through good deeds and mitzvot...

but that's just my personal opinion...i could be wrong....

Terrywoodenpic · Jul 13, 2005

To me Genesis 1... is seting out the mythology of the start of everythig as understood by the Jewish people at that time.
It is not stating factual events except that God was the creator of the universe.
Terry
________________________________

Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.

michel · Jul 13, 2005

Terrywoodenpic said:
To me Genesis 1... is seting out the mythology of the start of everythig as understood by the Jewish people at that time.
It is not stating factual events except that God was the creator of the universe.
Terry
________________________________

Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.

I must admit that I thought the same.

Original Freak · Jul 13, 2005

It is not stating factual events

well I agree with that.

Katzpur · Jul 13, 2005

Mister Emu said:
I really enjoy the King James Version, both because I find the language beautiful, and because I find the translation not too literal so as to be unreadable, nor too contemporary(I can't think of the word, as in when you paraphrase).

I believe that this describes a literal event that occured at a specific point, the beginning of earthly creation.

Well, if we want to drag this out and/or make our discussion more interesting, we could debate the doctrine of an ex nihilo creation (which I believe to be false) as well as the generally accepted belief that when God said He created us in His image and after His likeness, He was speaking figuratively as opposed to literally (a belief I also take issue with). Or I could just keep my mouth shut.

Kathryn

Terrywoodenpic · Jul 13, 2005

Katzpur said:
generally accepted belief that when God said He created us in His image and after His likeness, He was speaking figuratively as opposed to literally belief Kathryn

I will go along with that.
The problem with the man image thing is, when we eventualy meet inteligence from space, will they look just like us if they were also created on their own worlds in the image of God.
I belive God has no Image as such, Christ was a man and had an image though we have no record of it.
Terry
_______________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

Linus · Jul 13, 2005

Terrywoodenpic said:
The problem with the man image thing is, when we eventualy meet inteligence from space, will they look just like us if they were also created on their own worlds in the image of God.

It depends on how you interpret the phrase "made in God's image". I do not take this as saying "let's make man to look like us." I believe it is saying something more like, "let's make man to have a spiritual side, an eternal side, like we have." After all the text says, "Let us make man in our own image" If we are talking about physical appearances, then we must assume that whomever God was talking to looked just like God Himself.

So, if we ever do meet intelligent life, I believe they can look different and still have a spiritual side. Who knows, God may have a completely different plan for them...

michel · Jul 13, 2005

I agree Linus; it would not make sense if it was to be taken literally, because it would imply that God has corporeal form; I am far happier with your interpretaion as 'being able to do good deed, to heal others....'

Katzpur · Jul 13, 2005

michel said:
I agree Linus; it would not make sense if it was to be taken literally, because it would imply that God has corporeal form...

Yes, it definitely would imply that.

I'd be interested in hearing your interpretation of Genesis 5:1, in which we are told that "...Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth." The wording is identical to that in Genesis 1:26 where we read, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."

Why are you so sure that God does not have a corporeal form? Aside from John 4:24 ("God is spirit..."), which is also correctly translated as "God is life," what scriptures can you cite to support your position? There are quite a number of verses which I believe support mine.

Kathryn

Katzpur · Jul 13, 2005

Terrywoodenpic said:
I will go along with that.
The problem with the man image thing is, when we eventualy meet inteligence from space, will they look just like us if they were also created on their own worlds in the image of God.
I belive God has no Image as such, Christ was a man and had an image though we have no record of it.
Terry
_______________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

Hi, Terry.

So are you saying that we weren't created in God's image, or that we were, but He doesn't have one? And what do you mean when you said that Christ "had an image though we have no record of it"?

Also consider Hebrews 1:1-3, which says, "God hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high"

If God the Father has no image and is an invisible essence, why does this scripture say that the Son was in the express image of his person? If Paul were trying to describe the similarities between the Father and the Son, he could easily have come up with a great many words that would be less ambiguous. Why the use of a phrase which seems pretty clear in stating that Jesus looks like His Father?

Kathryn

Katzpur · Jul 13, 2005

Linus said:
I do not take this as saying "let's make man to look like us." I believe it is saying something more like, "let's make man to have a spiritual side, an eternal side, like we have."

Hi, Linus.

I'm curious what the basis for your belief is, other than that it is probably what you've always been taught to believe.

Kathryn

jewscout · Jul 14, 2005

Katzpur said:
Yes, it definitely would imply that.

I'd be interested in hearing your interpretation of Genesis 5:1, in which we are told that "...Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth." The wording is identical to that in Genesis 1:26 where we read, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."

Why are you so sure that God does not have a corporeal form? Aside from John 4:24 ("God is spirit..."), which is also correctly translated as "God is life," what scriptures can you cite to support your position? There are quite a number of verses which I believe support mine.

Kathryn

Deut. 4:15-16

Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves--for ye saw no manner of form on the day that HaShem spoke unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire--lest ye deal corruptly, and make you a graven image, even the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female

HaShem has no form, if He were to have a form then we could create images of Him, this would lead to idolitry which He points out often is a big no-no

Terrywoodenpic · Jul 14, 2005

Katzpur said:
Hi, Terry.

So are you saying that we weren't created in God's image, or that we were, but He doesn't have one? And what do you mean when you said that Christ "had an image though we have no record of it"?

Also consider Hebrews 1:1-3, which says, "God hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high"

If God the Father has no image and is an invisible essence, why does this scripture say that the Son was in the express image of his person? If Paul were trying to describe the similarities between the Father and the Son, he could easily have come up with a great many words that would be less ambiguous. Why the use of a phrase which seems pretty clear in stating that Jesus looks like His Father?

Kathryn

My belief is that much of the Bible was never intended to be taken literally. amongst primitive peoples there is a long oral tradition and most are accustomed to interpret what they hear. I am sure the same is true of the Biblical stories which would have been known a spread verbally before they were written down. Even stories in Pauls epistles were second hand as he never met Christ.

Even though I believe Bible stories should not be taken literally, they would not have survived if they did not have a message to tell, and a lesson to learn.

As for man being in Gods image , this I believe to be no more than a fable.

Terry
______________________________
Blessed are the poor in spirit, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.

Melody · Jul 14, 2005

While looking for some other information, I found this site. I thought you might find the following article interesting as it deals with the cultural background of Genesis. Here's another link you might find useful.

I do not believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis in that there was an actual Adam and Eve who populated the entire earth. I think it is more of an allegory and Adam and Eve represent humanity. The same for the creation of the universe. I had a wonderful OT professor at the Quaker college I attended and he neatly tied creationism with the big bang theory and its various eras. Wish I could find my notes.

michel · Jul 14, 2005

jewscout said:
Deut. 4:15-16

HaShem has no form, if He were to have a form then we could create images of Him, this would lead to idolitry which He points out often is a big no-no

I agree Jewscout - but the representations of Jesus on the cross, and of Mary, with the infant Jesus are often 'idolotrized'.

Scuba Pete · Jul 14, 2005

I claim emphatically, and without equivocation, and this claim you MUST accept:

I don't have a stinking clue. I am at a loss as to how I am supposed to take Genesis and the account of creation. Next question?

jewscout · Jul 14, 2005

michel said:
I agree Jewscout - but the representations of Jesus on the cross, and of Mary, with the infant Jesus are often 'idolotrized'.

well again the rule against idolitry is a thing for the Jews. The way i view the words of the Torah, a non-jew can worship HaShem in any manner they choose, they have that luxury.

Terrywoodenpic · Jul 14, 2005

Melody said:
While looking for some other information, I found this site. I thought you might find the following article interesting as it deals with the cultural background of Genesis. Here's another link you might find useful.

I do not believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis in that there was an actual Adam and Eve who populated the entire earth. I think it is more of an allegory and Adam and Eve represent humanity. The same for the creation of the universe. I had a wonderful OT professor at the Quaker college I attended and he neatly tied creationism with the big bang theory and its various eras. Wish I could find my notes.

Thanks Melody
Two excellent references.

Terry
_____________________________--
Blessed are the poor in spirit, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.

Genesis 1

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