What should be the age of consent?

I think if we are discussing the legal aspect of this, there are different circumstances.

I think two 14 year olds together, is different than a 30 year old with a 14 year old.

Fluffy said:

What kind of legal punishment would you like to see enforced on those who have underage sex? Say between two 14 year olds. It is ridiculous to outlaw this.

Your argument is that, at 14, a child is unable to know enough to have sex right? Well I interpret this in two ways. Either you are saying that a child is not mature enough at 14 to know the difference between right and wrong (an idea contradicted by the law, at least in the UK, which states that children know this difference by the age of 11), or you are saying that the children would not have access to the proper information, something we could easily give them.

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Fluffy, it's not because of Morality in the manner that you describe it. Yes, a teenager at the age od 14 knows the difference between right and wrong (unless he/she is retarded or psychotic); the problem is that a 14 year old doesn't have the matutity to forsee the possible outcome, and has not yet develloped a sence of self-discipline (Usually - this is not an exact science). How many times have I heard of teenaga girls becoming pregnant at a very early age? They have 3 opition;
1) have an abortion
2) have the child and look after it herself (Which is not fair - she is only still a MINOR, in law- she will miss out on her childhood
3) the Girl's parents look after the child - which, while they may want to do so, is costly, and adds unnecessary pressure on them.

P.S If you need any confirmation of the general concensus of opinion, look to the top of this page, at the statistics.

Druidus said:

I'm pretty sure I can understand consequences as well as anyone, perhaps better than some, despite my age.

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Possibly...and then again, maybe not. While I think you certainly are a very intelligent 16 year old, some of the things you've posted on various threads *might* indicate that you still do not have the judgment that you will have in, say another 7 or 8 years. We won't know, however, until we see your responses to these same questions at that time.

druidus said:

If we say that people at a certain age cannot consent to sex because their brains are not fully developed, we must also say that they cannot commit murder, as they could not understand the ramifications of this act either. All criminal acts committed by those under the age when the brain is fully developed wouldn't really count if we use the arguement that they could understand the consequences. But, in truth, they can, and do, understand the consequences, in most cases.

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It's not that they don't understand the difference between right and wrong. It's that their brains are not fully capable of making good judgments. And, in fact, this is exactly why people are fighting to keep adolescents free from the death penalty and why they rarely lock them up for life and why they expunge their juvenile records.

druidus said:

The final additions to the brain are not related to thinking ability anyway. They are related to hormones,

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Not true. Research indicates that the frontal lobe in a young person (under the age of 23 or so) does not have as much myelin sheath as that of someone in their late 20's or early 30's. They believe this sheath actually helps the cognitive processes involving judgment and decision making.

Fluffy, it's not because of Morality in the manner that you describe it. Yes, a teenager at the age od 14 knows the difference between right and wrong (unless he/she is retarded or psychotic); the problem is that a 14 year old doesn't have the matutity to forsee the possible outcome, and has not yet develloped a sence of self-discipline (Usually - this is not an exact science). How many times have I heard of teenaga girls becoming pregnant at a very early age? They have 3 opition;
1) have an abortion
2) have the child and look after it herself (Which is not fair - she is only still a MINOR, in law- she will miss out on her childhood
3) the Girl's parents look after the child - which, while they may want to do so, is costly, and adds unnecessary pressure on them.

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Or, they could be taught to use condoms, and other methods of contraceptives. If they are going to have sex, they had better, at least, use a method of contraceptive. I can see no negative to sex, if they are properly protected.

Possibly...and then again, maybe not. While I think you certainly are a very intelligent 16 year old, some of the things you've posted on various threads *might* indicate that you still do not have the judgment that you will have in, say another 7 or 8 years. We won't know, however, until we see your responses to these same questions at that time.

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I highly doubt that age has the ability to change opinions. Likely, the change in opinion would be based on experience, if anything. I have examined these opinions that I hold using the best methods I have. They have held up. Unless some other method of examination comes about, I will be forced to maintain them.

It's not that they don't understand the difference between right and wrong. It's that their brains are not fully capable of making good judgments. And, in fact, this is exactly why people are fighting to keep adolescents free from the death penalty and why they rarely lock them up for life and why they expunge their juvenile records.

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So why does this not hold for a young man who downloaded 17 child porn pictures and got over 400 years in prison?

Not true. Research indicates that the frontal lobe in a young person (under the age of 23 or so) does not have as much myelin sheath as that of someone in their late 20's or early 30's. They believe this sheath actually helps the cognitive processes involving judgment and decision making.

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Regardless of this, using proper examination methods, the right decision/judgement can be made regardless of age.

As well, Melody, what I meant was that the vast majority of final changes are hormonal.

P.S If you need any confirmation of the general concensus of opinion, look to the top of this page, at the statistics.

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Alright. Hmmm... *Examines poll* It seems that the majority of people reccomend reducing the age of consent. Indeed, A large portion of the people reccomend bringing it down to sixteen or below (21 people, in fact, above those who voted for eighteen). Wow, thanks for bringing that to my attention, Michel!

Besides the this, since when has public opinion been a good indicator of morality? A couple hundred years ago, the general opinion of the public would be that white men were superior to black men.

Druidus;

"Or, they could be taught to use condoms, and other methods of contraceptives. If they are going to have sex, they had better, at least, use a method of contraceptive. I can see no negative to sex, if they are properly protected."


use condoms :you said it yourself. You have fallen into your own trap. First you say use condoms (correctly) later you say use a method of contraception.

Any form of contraception (apart from chastity) will not stop the transmission of STD's apart from CONDOMS; how much publicity has this subject received - and yet you, a sensible mentally developed young man fall into the trap of saying 'or other contraceptives'- is this a case of 'it won';t happen to me' ? - or is it 'well, there's always the pill, most girls are on the pill, I don't need to worry'?

Druidus said:

I highly doubt that age has the ability to change opinions. Likely, the change in opinion would be based on experience, if anything. I have examined these opinions that I hold using the best methods I have. They have held up. Unless some other method of examination comes about, I will be forced to maintain them.

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So ultimately you're saying you know better than the research that's being done which indicates that a 16 year old's brain is not completely developed in the frontal lobe which deals with decision making and judgment?

druidus said:

So why does this not hold for a young man who downloaded 17 child porn pictures and got over 400 years in prison?

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Have I ever once said that I think our justice system is logical or applies consequences in a consistent manner?

druidus said:

As well, Melody, what I meant was that the vast majority of final changes are hormonal.

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Again, research says this is not so. Judgment calls and decision making are not "hormonal".

druidus said:

It seems that the majority of people reccomend reducing the age of consent. Indeed, A large portion of the people reccomend bringing it down to sixteen or below (21 people, in fact, above those who voted for eighteen).

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Again, you can skew the poll any way you want. I look at it and see that 25 people pretty much are agreeing since many 17 year olds are already out in the world, supporting themselves, so why shouldn't they have all the rights attributal to an adult.

Druidus, let me be clear that in no way did I intend to imply that your thinking skills were somehow "inferior". Based on the research though, there is some evidence to indicate that, as with other 16 year olds, your brain has still not developed to the point where you have the same decision making abilities as someone 10 years older.

It would be interesting though to see if the myelin sheath is fully developed in those adults who show a decided lack of good judgment....such as putting their child in the basement to protect him from the boxers who are allowed to run loose in the house while they go to the store.

Strange to think - from what you say, Melody - I had never heard of the 'myelin sheath' - that is is in the frontal lobes- from where our personality is defined.

Sneaky one about the woman and her dogs- naughty, but good!

michel said:

Strange to think - from what you say, Melody - I had never heard of the 'myelin sheath' - that is is in the frontal lobes- from where our personality is defined.

Sneaky one about the woman and her dogs- naughty, but good!

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Michel,
There's more detail in the link I provided earlier, plus many other research sites on the net. The research is still not all in...is it ever?....but there is compelling evidence.

Any form of contraception (apart from chastity) will not stop the transmission of STD's apart from CONDOMS; how much publicity has this subject received - and yet you, a sensible mentally developed young man fall into the trap of saying 'or other contraceptives'- is this a case of 'it won';t happen to me' ? - or is it 'well, there's always the pill, most girls are on the pill, I don't need to worry'?

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This is true - but I don't think it's particularly relevant. Adults fall into this trap easily also, and the only requirement to correct this misconception is thorough sexual education.

i think that, like alot of things, the act of responsible sexual consent is based upon the maturity of the person, not a set age...some people mature faster than others...

but if you want MPO i think 17 is a good average...

Maize said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that 'age of consent' is designed to say at what age can a person have legal sexual relations with an adult (over 18). Age of consent, being a legal term, has nothing to do with what two 16 year-olds get up to in the backseat of a car... again, I could be wrong.

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hmmmmm

i didnt think two 16 yr olds could drive - i thought it was 17 to drive lol

sorry - thats besides the point

i voted 16 as age of concent - i think teh age of concent for homosexual male sex lowerd from 18 to 16 - but there was never an age restriction on lesbian sex (correct me if im wrong - but didnt maggie thatcher say no two women would ever do such an act - ergo no need for any legislation on it -------- how innocent her mind is aye :biglaugh

i think that 16 is a perfectly reasonable age - ithink that 18 or even 17 is unreasonable because i think most 16 year olds have a perfectly reasonable state of mind, awareness of concequences, and ability to decide for themselfs

God Bless

corrupt_preist said:

hmmmmm

i didnt think two 16 yr olds could drive - i thought it was 17 to drive lol

sorry - thats besides the point

i voted 16 as age of concent - i think teh age of concent for homosexual male sex lowerd from 18 to 16 - but there was never an age restriction on lesbian sex (correct me if im wrong - but didnt maggie thatcher say no two women would ever do such an act - ergo no need for any legislation on it -------- how innocent her mind is aye :biglaugh

i think that 16 is a perfectly reasonable age - ithink that 18 or even 17 is unreasonable because i think most 16 year olds have a perfectly reasonable state of mind, awareness of concequences, and ability to decide for themselfs

God Bless

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*****
i think my post is only valid for England because i dotn know the actual ages in america - but i still think 16 should be universal

Melody, at what point do you think someone is sufficiently developed enough to make choices? How does one arbirarily set an age and say that everyone lower than that age cannot properly make choice? And, as you said yourself, it is the late twenties and early thirties where the brain is finally developed fully. Should we set that as the age of consent? If not, where is the reasoning? The people younger than that, according to you, cannot make judgements as well as they would if they met that age requirement.

Besides this, what about older people? As we all know, after the age of thirty, the body begins to degenerate, in body and mind. Muscles weaken, tendons loosen, bones become less dense. But besides this, the brain loses mass at a very heavy rate. Indeed, after a certain point, not even at a very high age, the brain mass of an adult would be expected to be equivalent to that of a fourteen year old, and the myelin sheaths, too, would have a lesser size.

Are we to say that these people cannot have sex either, for they cannot consent to it? Are we to use the same faulty logic applied to adolescents on the middle aged and elderly?

And Michel, my point was that if they are going to have sex, they should use a condom, or at least some form of contraceptive. I know perfectly well the dangers of STDs, the causes of them, and the methods of transmission. This is why if I ever have sex with an untested partner, I would use a condom. However, if a person is not going to use a condom, as I said, they should at least use another method of contraceptive, though most do not. I fail to see how I have "trapped myself".

Druidus said:

Melody, at what point do you think someone is sufficiently developed enough to make choices? How does one arbirarily set an age and say that everyone lower than that age cannot properly make choice? And, as you said yourself, it is the late twenties and early thirties where the brain is finally developed fully.

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I believe I said research indicates early 20's . Yes, obviously the age of 18 is an arbitrary age, but it could be argued that, while the brain is still not fully developed, an 18 year old's brain is still probably more developed than a 14 year old's brain. Yes, 18 is an arbitrary age, but it has to be set somewhere and I think it's a reasonable decision to set it at 18 since the government has set 18 as the legal age for adulthood. It is the age where the parents are no longer legally responsible for what you do. It is the age where you can legally sign and be held to a contract. It is the age when you can be drafted to go off and fight/die for your country. I believe the legal drinking age should also be 18. If you're old enough to die, you're old enough to decide whether you want to drink.

Whether you like it or not, until you turn 18, your parents are legally responsible for you and have control over you. I know this ticks teens off enormously because they think they're smarter than their parents, but there you have it.

druidus said:

Besides this, what about older people? As we all know, after the age of thirty, the body begins to degenerate, in body and mind. Muscles weaken, tendons loosen, bones become less dense. But besides this, the brain loses mass at a very heavy rate.

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Yes, we do lose brain mass, but I haven't read research to indicate what parts of the brain are most affected by this loss. Just from observation, as we get older our reactions time slow and so do our thought processes. Most elderly (70's and 80's) that I know are still quite capable of running their lives, assuming they are healthy. Heck, look at the ages of our congressmen and senators. Oh wait....that may be a case proving *your* point.

MELODY said:

............"Whether you like it or not, until you turn 18, your parents are legally responsible for you and have control over you. I know this ticks teens off enormously because they think they're smarter than their parents, but there you have it.".........

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Ah, I am not the only one to be considered an 'old goat' -lol I remember when the kids were in their teens (knew everything), and I went out to buy a new hi-fi; they told me which make to buy, and which model.

I thought mmaybe they were right, and that they knew more than I about new electronics - the blasted thing only laste eighteen months before the CD player packed up then each component fell apart. Luckily, and quite by chance, I was at a neighbour's house (I was helping her take down wall mounted speakers), and it turned out that she was going to dump her hi-fi (a sony) - I immediately offered to buy it from her. She then wanted to give it to me, so I phoned a local shop and asked what they would sell it for, second hand; she refused to accept $200, so we settled half way - I think she still felt guilty though; and it is still here, in pristine condition, five years later.....

apologies - realized how 'off topic' I was ; consider my hand slapped