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Creationist Challenge - Build the Ark

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
When I went and saw Ken Ham speak, I saw a movie of the Ark, it was floating no problem. Very impressive. There was plenty of room for all the kinds of animals and with room to spare.
 

johnhanks

Well-Known Member
When I went and saw Ken Ham speak, I saw a movie of the Ark, it was floating no problem. Very impressive. There was plenty of room for all the kinds of animals and with room to spare.
Since neither you nor any other creationist have been able to tell us what a 'kind' is, how would you know how much room was enough? How many 'kinds' of insect are there?
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
When I went and saw Ken Ham speak, I saw a movie of the Ark, it was floating no problem. Very impressive. There was plenty of room for all the kinds of animals and with room to spare.

When I went to see The Lord of the Rings trilogy at the theatre, I saw 10,000 Uruk-Hai beaten by a rag-tag band of Elves and Men, and eventually Gandalf, Eomer, and his gang joined in at the end at Helms Deep.

I saw huge Eagles, and a creature named Gollum that lived for hundreds of years, and a ginormous fiery creature called a Balrog. Not to mention I saw this really evil character named Sauron.

I also saw Hobbits.

That was really impressive, too.
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
Whether or not the story is true, the proposal is a slap in God's face whether God is real or not. God obviously governed what happened (if it happened), so to ask someone to do such a thing is just as silly as it is for creationists to ask you to believe in such a thing.

Two sides to the same coin if you ask me :yes:
 
When I went and saw Ken Ham speak, I saw a movie of the Ark, it was floating no problem. Very impressive. There was plenty of room for all the kinds of animals and with room to spare.

How did he actually go about proving all the "kinds" fit on the ark, I'm guessing he never went into great detail, he probably just said "trust me they are all in there, all 5 million plus species"
 

Baydwin

Well-Known Member
Whether or not the story is true, the proposal is a slap in God's face whether God is real or not. God obviously governed what happened (if it happened), so to ask someone to do such a thing is just as silly as it is for creationists to ask you to believe in such a thing.
Not at all. It would be an incredible demonstration of faith and devotion to recreate the ark. There is nothing in the Bible that says the construction of the ark, nor the collection of animals was in any way aided by the divine. One man and his family did it in the past, one man and his family should be able to do the same now.

Although people have made excellent comments and suggestions, my original proposal still stands, build an Ark to the specs of the Bible (replacing gopher wood with a suitable modern material) collect two of every "kind" and keep them alive on the Ark floating upon water for a minimum of 40 days.
Despite this being far less a feat than the story told in the Bible, I consider it so unlikely to succeed that I'm willing to reduce the requirements to give them a fair chance.

Come on, there are souls up for grabs here guys, get building or God will frown upon you for your sin of sloth.
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
There is nothing in the Bible that says the construction of the ark, nor the collection of animals was in any way aided by the divine. .
Baydwin, Baydwin, Baydwin...

I guess the part where God opened the waters (supposedly) and flooded the earth, and the instruction God gave to Noah, and the decision that everyone had become evil, and the timing laid out to Noah about when destruction would happen. Yeah I suppose there was no divine action going on at all. Dare we assume from this little bit I mention, and it really isn't worth mentioning because it is such a small part of the story, but I thought I would offer it anyway, that anything divine was taking place.

Gotcha :areyoucra
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Whether or not the story is true, the proposal is a slap in God's face whether God is real or not. God obviously governed what happened (if it happened), so to ask someone to do such a thing is just as silly as it is for creationists to ask you to believe in such a thing.
Perhaps... but then I think that the whole "Creation science" system is a slap in Gods face.
People like Ken Ham have added so much of their own ego into "what God said" that it ceases to be Gods' word and becomes Hams' word.
He has filled in the story of Genesis and the Ark with so much "detail" (like what the floor plan of the Ark looked like) that it removes all grace and meaning from the Biblical tale and renders it an empty vessel for mockery.

wa:do
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Baydwin, Baydwin, Baydwin...

I guess the part where God opened the waters (supposedly) and flooded the earth, and the instruction God gave to Noah, and the decision that everyone had become evil, and the timing laid out to Noah about when destruction would happen. Yeah I suppose there was no divine action going on at all. Dare we assume from this little bit I mention, and it really isn't worth mentioning because it is such a small part of the story, but I thought I would offer it anyway, that anything divine was taking place.

Gotcha :areyoucra
Yup, according to the Bible, God did all those things.
But as Baydwin said, at no time is God mentioned to have helped Noah build, stock, or load the Ark.
(But He did seal the door for them though)
 

Snowber

Active Member
Is this a Bible only challenge? I'm not even sure if the Bible specifies the Ark being a huge boat or whatever was available to make at the time and if it specifies whether the animals were the animals of the whole world or just livestock around the area that was flooded?
 

Klaufi_Wodensson

Vinlandic Warrior
I'd convert, but they would need to have every single kind of animal, just like Noah did. That means all 15,000+ species of ants alone, not including all the other insects, which is a few more million or so species ;)
 

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
I'd convert, but they would need to have every single kind of animal, just like Noah did. That means all 15,000+ species of ants alone, not including all the other insects, which is a few more million or so species ;)

He only had to have a representative of all the air-breathing kinds of animals.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Is this a Bible only challenge?
Does the Quran talk about the Ark?

I'm not even sure if the Bible specifies the Ark being a huge boat or whatever was available to make at the time
Here are the specs for the Ark (Genesis 6:13-16):

13Then God said to Noah, "(Q)The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth. 14"Make for yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make the ark with rooms, and shall cover it inside and out with pitch.
15"This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred [a]cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.
16"You shall make a window for the ark, and finish it to a cubit from the top; and set the door of the ark in the side of it; you shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.
and if it specifies whether the animals were the animals of the whole world or just livestock around the area that was flooded?

That's talked about in Genesis 6:17 - 7:1-5:


17"Behold, (R)I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
18"But I will establish (S)My covenant with you; and (T)you shall enter the ark--you and your sons and your wife, and your sons' wives with you.
19"(U)And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female.
20"(V)Of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive.
21"As for you, take for yourself some of all (W)food which is edible, and gather it to yourself; and it shall be for food for you and for them."
22(X)Thus Noah did; according to all that God had commanded him, so he did.



1Then the LORD said to Noah, "Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be (A)righteous before Me in this time.
2"You shall take with you of every (B)clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female;
3also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth.
4"For after (C)seven more days, I will send rain on the earth (D)forty days and forty nights; and I will blot out from the face of the land (E)every living thing that I have made."
5(F)Noah did according to all that the LORD had commanded him.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
I'd love to see a wooden boat containing that many animals float for more than an hour without breaking up. I'd love to see a creationist structural engineer do an analysis on his own ship and watch is consistently fail.
 

Snowber

Active Member
Does the Quran talk about the Ark?


Here are the specs for the Ark (Genesis 6:13-16):




That's talked about in Genesis 6:17 - 7:1-5:

The Koran does talk about the Ark. I was gonna throw out a defense for the Bible but after reading it either the interpretation is way different or people injected "extras" over time.

Ark in Koran in case anyone interested:

[7:64] They rejected him. Consequently, we saved him and those with him in the ARK, and we drowned those who rejected our revelations; they were blind.

[10:73] They rejected him and, consequently, we saved him and those who joined him in the ARK; we made them the inheritors. And we drowned those who rejected our revelations. Note the consequences; they have been warned.

[11:37] "Build the ARK under our watchful eyes, and with our inspiration, and do not implore Me on behalf of those who have transgressed; they are destined to drown."

[11:38] While he was building the ARK, whenever some of his people passed by him they laughed at him. He said, "You may be laughing at us, but we are laughing at you, just as you are laughing.


[11:44] It was proclaimed: "O earth, swallow your water," and "O sky, cease." The water then subsided; the judgment was fulfilled. The ARK finally rested on the hills of Judea. It was then proclaimed: "The transgressors have perished."

*11:40 & 44 This is God's proven truth: Noah's ark was made of logs, tied together with primitive ropes (54:13). Contrary to common belief, the flood was limited to the area around today's Dead Sea, and the animals were Noah's livestock only; not every animal that lived on earth.

[26:119] We delivered him and those who accompanied him in the loaded ARK.

[29:15] We saved him and those who accompanied him in the ARK, and we set it up as a lesson for all the people.

[36:41] Another sign for them is that we carried their ancestors on the loaded ARK.

[69:11] The flood was devastating, so we carried you on the floating (ARK).

This is just a quick search for anything containing "ARK" in the Koran (minus a verse about "Ark of the convenant".
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
When I went to see The Lord of the Rings trilogy at the theatre, I saw 10,000 Uruk-Hai beaten by a rag-tag band of Elves and Men, and eventually Gandalf, Eomer, and his gang joined in at the end at Helms Deep.

I saw huge Eagles, and a creature named Gollum that lived for hundreds of years, and a ginormous fiery creature called a Balrog. Not to mention I saw this really evil character named Sauron.

I also saw Hobbits.

That was really impressive, too.
I hope your not implying that LOTR and its writer are not infallible.
angrymob.gif
 
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