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How can the New Testament be even remotely correct?
- Thread starter Mathematician
- Start date
pandamonk
Active Member
Hey, i never said they were totally copied in every way, I did say though, that some major sections are almost exact copies(word for word the same). i will post some when i have the time, just now i better be off to my bed. I will try to find one before I go actually. This isn't from mathew and Mark but it's the best I could do in the timejgallandt said:
" Pure Plagiarism
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
Here
are two authors, one unknown, in potentially different eras writing the
same exacting thing word for word
are two authors, one unknown, in potentially different eras writing the
same exacting thing word for word
2 Kings 19
Writer:
Unkown
Unkown
Era:
Unkown
1 And it came to pass, when king Hezekiah
heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth,
and went into the house of the LORD.
2 And he sent Eliakim, which was over the
household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests, covered
with sackcloth, to Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.
3 And they said unto him, Thus saith
Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy;
for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to
bring forth.
4 It may be the LORD thy God will hear all
the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to
reproach the living God; and will reprove the words which the LORD thy
God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that are
left.
5 So the servants of king Hezekiah came to
Isaiah.
6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye
say to your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words
which thou hast heard, with which the servants of the king of Assyria
have blasphemed me.
7 Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and
he shall hear a rumour, and shall return to his own land; and I will
cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.
8 So Rabshakeh returned, and found the king
of Assyria warring against Libnah: for he had heard that he was departed
from Lachish.
9 And when he heard say of Tirhakah king of
Ethiopia, Behold, he is come out to fight against thee: he sent
messengers again unto Hezekiah, saying,
10 Thus shall ye speak to Hezekiah king of
Judah, saying, Let not thy God in whom thou trustest deceive thee,
saying, Jerusalem shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of
Assyria.
11 Behold, thou hast heard what the kings
of Assyria have done to all lands, by destroying them utterly: and shalt
thou be delivered?
12 Have the gods of the nations delivered
them which my fathers have destroyed; as Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph,
and the children of Eden which were in Thelasar?
13 Where is the king of Hamath, and the
king of Arpad, and the king of the city of Sepharvaim, of Hena, and Ivah?
14 And Hezekiah received the letter of the
hand of the messengers, and read it: and Hezekiah went up into the house
of the LORD, and spread it before the LORD.
15 And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and
said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou
art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou
hast made heaven and earth.
16 LORD, bow down thine ear, and hear:
open, LORD, thine eyes, and see: and hear the words of Sennacherib,
which hath sent him to reproach the living God.
17 Of a truth, LORD, the kings of Assyria
have destroyed the nations and their lands,
18 And have cast their gods into the fire:
for they were no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone:
therefore they have destroyed them.
19 Now therefore, O LORD our God, I beseech
thee, save thou us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth
may know that thou art the LORD God, even thou only.
20 Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent to
Hezekiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, That which thou
hast prayed to me against Sennacherib king of Assyria I have heard.
21 This is the word that the LORD hath
spoken concerning him; The virgin the daughter of Zion hath despised
thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken
her head at thee.
22 Whom hast thou reproached and
blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up
thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.
23 By thy messengers thou hast reproached
the LORD, and hast said, With the multitude of my chariots I am come up
to the height of the mountains, to the sides of Lebanon, and will cut
down the tall cedar trees thereof, and the choice fir trees thereof: and
I will enter into the lodgings of his borders, and into the forest of
his Carmel.
24 I have digged and drunk strange waters,
and with the sole of my feet have I dried up all the rivers of besieged
places.
25 Hast thou not heard long ago how I have
done it, and of ancient times that I have formed it? now have I brought
it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste fenced cities into
ruinous heaps.
26 Therefore their inhabitants were of
small power, they were dismayed and confounded; they were as the grass
of the field, and as the green herb, as the grass on the house tops, and
as corn blasted before it be grown up.
27 But I know thy abode, and thy going out,
and thy coming in, and thy rage against me.
28 Because thy rage against me and thy
tumult is come up into mine ears, therefore I will put my hook in thy
nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by
which thou camest.
29 And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye
shall eat this year such things as grow of themselves, and in the second
year that which springeth of the same; and in the third year sow ye, and
reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruits thereof.
30 And the remnant that is escaped of the
house of Judah shall yet again take root downward, and bear fruit
upward.
31 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a
remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of
hosts shall do this.
32 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning
the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an
arrow there, nor come before it with shield, nor cast a bank against it.
33 By the way that he came, by the same
shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith the LORD.
34 For I will defend this city, to save it,
for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.
35 And it came to pass that night, that the
angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an
hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the
morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
36 So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed,
and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh.
37 And it came to pass, as he was
worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and
Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword: and they escaped into the
land of Armenia. And Esarhaddon his son reigned in his stead[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
[/font]
Unkown
1 And it came to pass, when king Hezekiah
heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth,
and went into the house of the LORD.
2 And he sent Eliakim, which was over the
household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests, covered
with sackcloth, to Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.
3 And they said unto him, Thus saith
Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy;
for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to
bring forth.
4 It may be the LORD thy God will hear all
the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to
reproach the living God; and will reprove the words which the LORD thy
God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that are
left.
5 So the servants of king Hezekiah came to
Isaiah.
6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye
say to your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words
which thou hast heard, with which the servants of the king of Assyria
have blasphemed me.
7 Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and
he shall hear a rumour, and shall return to his own land; and I will
cause him to fall by the sword in his own land.
8 So Rabshakeh returned, and found the king
of Assyria warring against Libnah: for he had heard that he was departed
from Lachish.
9 And when he heard say of Tirhakah king of
Ethiopia, Behold, he is come out to fight against thee: he sent
messengers again unto Hezekiah, saying,
10 Thus shall ye speak to Hezekiah king of
Judah, saying, Let not thy God in whom thou trustest deceive thee,
saying, Jerusalem shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of
Assyria.
11 Behold, thou hast heard what the kings
of Assyria have done to all lands, by destroying them utterly: and shalt
thou be delivered?
12 Have the gods of the nations delivered
them which my fathers have destroyed; as Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph,
and the children of Eden which were in Thelasar?
13 Where is the king of Hamath, and the
king of Arpad, and the king of the city of Sepharvaim, of Hena, and Ivah?
14 And Hezekiah received the letter of the
hand of the messengers, and read it: and Hezekiah went up into the house
of the LORD, and spread it before the LORD.
15 And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and
said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou
art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou
hast made heaven and earth.
16 LORD, bow down thine ear, and hear:
open, LORD, thine eyes, and see: and hear the words of Sennacherib,
which hath sent him to reproach the living God.
17 Of a truth, LORD, the kings of Assyria
have destroyed the nations and their lands,
18 And have cast their gods into the fire:
for they were no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone:
therefore they have destroyed them.
19 Now therefore, O LORD our God, I beseech
thee, save thou us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth
may know that thou art the LORD God, even thou only.
20 Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent to
Hezekiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, That which thou
hast prayed to me against Sennacherib king of Assyria I have heard.
21 This is the word that the LORD hath
spoken concerning him; The virgin the daughter of Zion hath despised
thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken
her head at thee.
22 Whom hast thou reproached and
blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up
thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.
23 By thy messengers thou hast reproached
the LORD, and hast said, With the multitude of my chariots I am come up
to the height of the mountains, to the sides of Lebanon, and will cut
down the tall cedar trees thereof, and the choice fir trees thereof: and
I will enter into the lodgings of his borders, and into the forest of
his Carmel.
24 I have digged and drunk strange waters,
and with the sole of my feet have I dried up all the rivers of besieged
places.
25 Hast thou not heard long ago how I have
done it, and of ancient times that I have formed it? now have I brought
it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste fenced cities into
ruinous heaps.
26 Therefore their inhabitants were of
small power, they were dismayed and confounded; they were as the grass
of the field, and as the green herb, as the grass on the house tops, and
as corn blasted before it be grown up.
27 But I know thy abode, and thy going out,
and thy coming in, and thy rage against me.
28 Because thy rage against me and thy
tumult is come up into mine ears, therefore I will put my hook in thy
nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by
which thou camest.
29 And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye
shall eat this year such things as grow of themselves, and in the second
year that which springeth of the same; and in the third year sow ye, and
reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruits thereof.
30 And the remnant that is escaped of the
house of Judah shall yet again take root downward, and bear fruit
upward.
31 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a
remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of
hosts shall do this.
32 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning
the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an
arrow there, nor come before it with shield, nor cast a bank against it.
33 By the way that he came, by the same
shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith the LORD.
34 For I will defend this city, to save it,
for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.
35 And it came to pass that night, that the
angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an
hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the
morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
36 So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed,
and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh.
37 And it came to pass, as he was
worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and
Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword: and they escaped into the
land of Armenia. And Esarhaddon his son reigned in his stead[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
[/font]
[/font]
pandamonk
Active Member
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]VS
Isaiah 37
Isaiah 37
Writer:
Isaiah, except for maybe chapters 44 - 66
Isaiah, except for maybe chapters 44 - 66
Era:
not sure but possibly 696-642 B.C.
1 And it came to pass, when king Hezekiah
heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth,
and went into the house of the LORD.
2 And he sent Eliakim, who was over the
household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests covered
with sackcloth, unto Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.
3 And they said unto him, Thus saith
Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and of blasphemy:
for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to
bring forth.
4 It may be the LORD thy God will hear the
words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to
reproach the living God, and will reprove the words which the LORD thy
God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that is
left.
5 So the servants of king Hezekiah came to
Isaiah.
6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye
say unto your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words
that thou hast heard, wherewith the servants of the king of Assyria have
blasphemed me.
7 Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and
he shall hear a rumour, and return to his own land; and I will cause him
to fall by the sword in his own land.
8 So Rabshakeh returned, and found the king
of Assyria warring against Libnah: for he had heard that he was departed
from Lachish.
9 And he heard say concerning Tirhakah king
of Ethiopia, He is come forth to make war with thee. And when he heard
it, he sent messengers to Hezekiah, saying,
10 Thus shall ye speak to Hezekiah king of
Judah, saying, Let not thy God, in whom thou trustest, deceive thee,
saying, Jerusalem shall not be given into the hand of the king of
Assyria.
11 Behold, thou hast heard what the kings
of Assyria have done to all lands by destroying them utterly; and shalt
thou be delivered?
12 Have the gods of the nations delivered
them which my fathers have destroyed, as Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph,
and the children of Eden which were in Telassar?
13 Where is the king of Hamath, and the
king of Arphad, and the king of the city of Sepharvaim, Hena, and Ivah?
14 And Hezekiah received the letter from
the hand of the messengers, and read it: and Hezekiah went up unto the
house of the LORD, and spread it before the LORD. 15 And Hezekiah prayed
unto the LORD, saying,
16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that
dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of
all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
17 Incline thine ear, O LORD, and hear;
open thine eyes, O LORD, and see: and hear all the words of Sennacherib,
which hath sent to reproach the living God.
18 Of a truth, LORD, the kings of Assyria
have laid waste all the nations, and their countries,
19 And have cast their gods into the fire:
for they were no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone:
therefore they have destroyed them.
20 Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us
from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art
the LORD, even thou only.
21 Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent unto
Hezekiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Whereas thou hast
prayed to me against Sennacherib king of Assyria:
22 This is the word which the LORD hath
spoken concerning him; The virgin, the daughter of Zion, hath despised
thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken
her head at thee.
23 Whom hast thou reproached and
blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up
thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.
24 By thy servants hast thou reproached the
Lord, and hast said, By the multitude of my chariots am I come up to the
height of the mountains, to the sides of Lebanon; and I will cut down
the tall cedars thereof, and the choice fir trees thereof: and I will
enter into the height of his border, and the forest of his Carmel.
25 I have digged, and drunk water; and with
the sole of my feet have I dried up all the rivers of the besieged
places.
26 Hast thou not heard long ago, how I have
done it; and of ancient times, that I have formed it? now have I brought
it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste defenced cities into
ruinous heaps.
27 Therefore their inhabitants were of
small power, they were dismayed and confounded: they were as the grass
of the field, and as the green herb, as the grass on the housetops, and
as corn blasted before it be grown up.
28 But I know thy abode, and thy going out,
and thy coming in, and thy rage against me.
29 Because thy rage against me, and thy
tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy
nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by
which thou camest.
30 And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye
shall eat this year such as groweth of itself; and the second year that
which springeth of the same: and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and
plant vineyards, and eat the fruit thereof.
31 And the remnant that is escaped of the
house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:
32 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a
remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of
hosts shall do this.
33 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning
the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an
arrow there, nor come before it with shields, nor cast a bank against
it.
34 By the way that he came, by the same
shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith the LORD.
35 For I will defend this city to save it
for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.
36 Then the angel of the LORD went forth,
and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five
thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were
all dead corpses.
37 So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed,
and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh.
38 And it came to pass, as he was
worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and
Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword; and they escaped into the
land of Armenia: and Esarhaddon his son reigned in his stead"
[/font]not sure but possibly 696-642 B.C.
1 And it came to pass, when king Hezekiah
heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth,
and went into the house of the LORD.
2 And he sent Eliakim, who was over the
household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests covered
with sackcloth, unto Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.
3 And they said unto him, Thus saith
Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and of blasphemy:
for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to
bring forth.
4 It may be the LORD thy God will hear the
words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to
reproach the living God, and will reprove the words which the LORD thy
God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that is
left.
5 So the servants of king Hezekiah came to
Isaiah.
6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye
say unto your master, Thus saith the LORD, Be not afraid of the words
that thou hast heard, wherewith the servants of the king of Assyria have
blasphemed me.
7 Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and
he shall hear a rumour, and return to his own land; and I will cause him
to fall by the sword in his own land.
8 So Rabshakeh returned, and found the king
of Assyria warring against Libnah: for he had heard that he was departed
from Lachish.
9 And he heard say concerning Tirhakah king
of Ethiopia, He is come forth to make war with thee. And when he heard
it, he sent messengers to Hezekiah, saying,
10 Thus shall ye speak to Hezekiah king of
Judah, saying, Let not thy God, in whom thou trustest, deceive thee,
saying, Jerusalem shall not be given into the hand of the king of
Assyria.
11 Behold, thou hast heard what the kings
of Assyria have done to all lands by destroying them utterly; and shalt
thou be delivered?
12 Have the gods of the nations delivered
them which my fathers have destroyed, as Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph,
and the children of Eden which were in Telassar?
13 Where is the king of Hamath, and the
king of Arphad, and the king of the city of Sepharvaim, Hena, and Ivah?
14 And Hezekiah received the letter from
the hand of the messengers, and read it: and Hezekiah went up unto the
house of the LORD, and spread it before the LORD. 15 And Hezekiah prayed
unto the LORD, saying,
16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that
dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of
all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
17 Incline thine ear, O LORD, and hear;
open thine eyes, O LORD, and see: and hear all the words of Sennacherib,
which hath sent to reproach the living God.
18 Of a truth, LORD, the kings of Assyria
have laid waste all the nations, and their countries,
19 And have cast their gods into the fire:
for they were no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone:
therefore they have destroyed them.
20 Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us
from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art
the LORD, even thou only.
21 Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent unto
Hezekiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Whereas thou hast
prayed to me against Sennacherib king of Assyria:
22 This is the word which the LORD hath
spoken concerning him; The virgin, the daughter of Zion, hath despised
thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken
her head at thee.
23 Whom hast thou reproached and
blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up
thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.
24 By thy servants hast thou reproached the
Lord, and hast said, By the multitude of my chariots am I come up to the
height of the mountains, to the sides of Lebanon; and I will cut down
the tall cedars thereof, and the choice fir trees thereof: and I will
enter into the height of his border, and the forest of his Carmel.
25 I have digged, and drunk water; and with
the sole of my feet have I dried up all the rivers of the besieged
places.
26 Hast thou not heard long ago, how I have
done it; and of ancient times, that I have formed it? now have I brought
it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste defenced cities into
ruinous heaps.
27 Therefore their inhabitants were of
small power, they were dismayed and confounded: they were as the grass
of the field, and as the green herb, as the grass on the housetops, and
as corn blasted before it be grown up.
28 But I know thy abode, and thy going out,
and thy coming in, and thy rage against me.
29 Because thy rage against me, and thy
tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy
nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by
which thou camest.
30 And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye
shall eat this year such as groweth of itself; and the second year that
which springeth of the same: and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and
plant vineyards, and eat the fruit thereof.
31 And the remnant that is escaped of the
house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:
32 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a
remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of
hosts shall do this.
33 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning
the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an
arrow there, nor come before it with shields, nor cast a bank against
it.
34 By the way that he came, by the same
shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith the LORD.
35 For I will defend this city to save it
for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.
36 Then the angel of the LORD went forth,
and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five
thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were
all dead corpses.
37 So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed,
and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh.
38 And it came to pass, as he was
worshipping in the house of Nisroch his god, that Adrammelech and
Sharezer his sons smote him with the sword; and they escaped into the
land of Armenia: and Esarhaddon his son reigned in his stead"
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
So God double posted. Big whoop! The Bible happens to be HIS forum! 
Dayv
Member
Okay, so if the gospels aren't eyewitness accounts than they really shouldn't be taken as accurate, and little, if any of the tales were written by eyewitnesses. You mention the virgin birth and Mary visiting the tomb. No one that wrote about these events in the bible was actually there, so how do we know there is any validity to any of it?
And dan, I'd like to stress again what pandamonk has said, if some of the scripture is obviously become unreliable, How do you know what is actually accurate?! There is NO WAY TO! You are only guessing, if one passage is wrong, it is not only possible but likely that the rest has become scewed and inaccurate.
And dan, I'd like to stress again what pandamonk has said, if some of the scripture is obviously become unreliable, How do you know what is actually accurate?! There is NO WAY TO! You are only guessing, if one passage is wrong, it is not only possible but likely that the rest has become scewed and inaccurate.
jeffrey
â Ãig Dogâ
You are so right, if the person that wrote the book wasn't there, it should e disregarded. But wait, that means that 99.99% of all history books should be disregarded, because obviously, the authors were not there. Any collage paper that was 'researched' should be given an F because they were not there. Darwin's Theory, throw it out, he wasn't there. Shall I go on?Dayv said:
Dayv
Member
A lot of history is likely inaccurate, because history is written by the winners, not necessarily the ones that were right. Historians use many different sources, they research many things beyond what is merely said by people of the time. Most historians also believe the bible to be inaccurate and likely written decades if not centuries later (by analyzing dialect and language). Historians do what is called science, as did Darwin, they don't cling to one view merely because it is what was written, they research and find evidence supporting what was written. Darwin's theory of evolution is something that fits most all cases in nature (and with more research, likely all) and makes logical sense if you understand it correctly. It fits, the bible doesn't. You are not researching the bible and its contents, you are just reading it and assuming it to be right.
tkdrocks
Mellowing with Age
1.Thomas Painejgallandt said:Dayv, Most historians? Name 5.
2. Thomas Jefferson (Wrote his own translation of the New Testament)
3. Harris, Stephen L., Understanding the Bible
4. Helms, Randal, Gospel Fictions
5. Asimov, Isaac, Asimov's Guide to the Bible
Ryan2065
Well-Known Member
http://www.westarinstitute.org/Fellows/Harris/harris.html
Harris only has a PHD from Cornell and is the chair of the Humanities and Religious Studies department at California State University. So why isn't he a historian? I'm assuming you checked all of their backgrounds before you made that statement!
Isaac Asimov got a PHD in chemistry though, not History, and the other guys I couldn't see if they had any schooling in history or not. So I won't argue and say they are historians.
**Edit** after looking some more is that the right Harris? I looked at his book list on his site and he does not mention the book cited here. So could there be two Stephen Harris' writing religious books?
jeffrey
â Ãig Dogâ
My point is that most historians would not agree with you. You will always find someone that will say they are an expert, claiming something they try to prove by juggling numbers. Case in point, you can still find experts that claim cigarette smoking is not harmful. That Aids and HIV are not related. It all boils down to whom you believe. If you still wish to believe despite all the posts in this thread that show otherwise, that is your choice.
Ryan2065
Well-Known Member
So you are saying most historians believe that the bible is a historical document? That means that all aspects of the bible are historically accurate...
Now I ask you, name me 5 historians who agree that the creation story in genesis is historically accurate. I do admit that this is a little unfair, however, if some of the bible is merely myth, then unless you have historical evidence, the other parts of the bible could very well be myth. The catholic church believed in the creation story, that is until science proved them wrong with evolution. Now they say, oh, my bad, that must have been a myth to help us learn, not a true thing.
Now I ask you, name me 5 historians who agree that the creation story in genesis is historically accurate. I do admit that this is a little unfair, however, if some of the bible is merely myth, then unless you have historical evidence, the other parts of the bible could very well be myth. The catholic church believed in the creation story, that is until science proved them wrong with evolution. Now they say, oh, my bad, that must have been a myth to help us learn, not a true thing.
blueman
God's Warrior
Who would you like to offer as proof that God created the universe and earth. Who would you suggest that we or anybody for that matter should call as a witness? Moses is believed to be the author of Genesis and was chosen and led by God after leaving Eygyptian royalty behind. God revealed to Moses what He accomplished in the beginning. Evolution theory is deeply rooted in science, but fails to completely determine the initial point of origin to the creation of the earth and the life that inhabits it. God does require people to have a measure of faith in the validity and purpose of His Word. If all things were presented to us in a tangible fashion as proof for us to believe completely, because we see it with our own eyes and can reason with our secular mindset, there would be no reason for God to be who He is. I think it is rather foolish of us to underestimate the power of God and the fact that only He can do God-like things, but that is just my personal opinion.Ryan2065 said:
The gospels were written many decades after Jesus' death, by people who never met Him, and the earlier ones, like the Gospel of the Nazarenes, aren't even included in the Bible. Reading descriptions of specific events, such as the discovery of Jesus' empty tomb, reveals how the story is increasingly embellished in subsequent Gospels.
The Bible is not an accurate historical primary reference.
The Bible is not an accurate historical primary reference.
blueman
God's Warrior
Incorrect. The synoptic gospels were wrriten, according to many archaelogical accounts, during the period of A.D. 30-70, during the lifetimes of many of Jesus's disciples (Peter, John, Matthew) who followed Christ and walked wit Him during His 3 1\2 year ministry. In addition, authors like Luke and Mark had access to Peter and John to validate accounts that were rampant throughout 1st century Palestine during Jesus's ministry, in addition to many eyewitness accounts of Jesus and His disciples. If you believed Jesus was cruxified on the cross and to this day, there has been no archaelogical evidence of any of His remains, how would this fact invalidate the empty tomb story, which you are claiming to be an embellishment, with no specific proof of it's falsehood. Purley speculative on your part.Seyorni said:
jeffrey
â Ãig Dogâ
Ryan2065, Please don't put words in my mouth, or assume something I never said. Proof of God? Look around you. The trees. Flowers. The birds and their song. As much as man attempts to copy, he cannot come even close the the splender and beauty of these things and more. This is proof enough for me. And like I said in an earlier post, unless you have tried God and inhaled his grace, you will not know what I'm talking about.
Voxton
·
Even the most superficial glance at the bible gives you a clue that something is amiss.
What were Jesus' last words before he died? Now remember, he is the main dude in this religion -- if your records are even REMOTELY accurate, you'd expect that they'd make a note of what his dying words were, right?
Well, Matthew and Mark agrees -- they have it as "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34). But the other two have completely different lines: "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." (Luke 25:46) and "It is finished!" (John 19:30).
Now, it isn't just that they don't agree on such a basic thing -- the first phrase is one of despair -- the guy thinks his almighty father has given up on him... The other two basically says, "Okay, it's done, I'm ready" -- whereas the other one means "Help! Can I get a hand here, please?"
Who discovered the empty tomb? Who did Jesus first reveal himself to, after his resurrection? They don't agree on those points either...
If you've got a couple of witnesses, and their stories match anywhere as poorly as this, hey, you're not gonna trust them -- if you have even a vaguely rational and objective mindset...
No wonder church leaders resisted having the bible translated into common languages for so long -- they thought people would lose their faith if they saw this stuff. Luckily for the churches -- and sadly for humanity -- people just aren't all that rational. If they really, really want to believe, it takes an awful lot to convince them otherwise...
What were Jesus' last words before he died? Now remember, he is the main dude in this religion -- if your records are even REMOTELY accurate, you'd expect that they'd make a note of what his dying words were, right?
Well, Matthew and Mark agrees -- they have it as "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34). But the other two have completely different lines: "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." (Luke 25:46) and "It is finished!" (John 19:30).
Now, it isn't just that they don't agree on such a basic thing -- the first phrase is one of despair -- the guy thinks his almighty father has given up on him... The other two basically says, "Okay, it's done, I'm ready" -- whereas the other one means "Help! Can I get a hand here, please?"
Who discovered the empty tomb? Who did Jesus first reveal himself to, after his resurrection? They don't agree on those points either...
If you've got a couple of witnesses, and their stories match anywhere as poorly as this, hey, you're not gonna trust them -- if you have even a vaguely rational and objective mindset...
No wonder church leaders resisted having the bible translated into common languages for so long -- they thought people would lose their faith if they saw this stuff. Luckily for the churches -- and sadly for humanity -- people just aren't all that rational. If they really, really want to believe, it takes an awful lot to convince them otherwise...