Why must the pope be unmarried? What right do we have to add anything to God's Will?

Pilgrim of this Reality · Jul 6, 2005

According to Catholic tradition the 1st pope was Simon Peter(Cephas). Where did such a tradition come from? The New Testament states that Peter was married:

Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Corinthians 9:5.

I surmise that the Cephas Paul addresses is Peter, but could be mistaken. However, I have also wondered: What right does any denomination (Catholism is a division in my eyes even if it is almost as old a division as the Greek Apologists and Ebionitism and as such falls under the term denomination) have to add or remove from God's Will? I realize that the canon was selected by men, however, to contradict or add to the words of Jesus or of the apostles' writings is rather arrogant in my eyes. What right do we have as God's creation to dictate to Him our terms?

Quiddity · Jul 6, 2005

According to Catholic tradition the 1st pope was Simon Peter(Cephas). Where did such a tradition come from?

This is really for another thread. There is another thread that can answer this for you, so I will desist.

Although it's true that Peter was married, it is also true that the early Church was given authority by Christ himself....to bind and loose. With this authority the Church does indeed have the right to choose for the flock according to what is wise in the wisdom of the Church. This is not to be seen as odd because there are many examples in the Bible. Here are some:

Jeremiah was forbidden by God to take a wife in order to enable him to fulfill his ministry (Jer. 16:1-2).
Moses asked the Israelites to abstain from marital intimacy while he ascended Mount Sinai (Ex. 20:15).
Paul qualifies his strong endorsement of celibacy by adding: "I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord" (7:35).
Matthew 19:12......others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.

These are some examples that in Christendom it is not an odd practice. It is also to be noted that in the Eastern Catholic Churches they are indeed married.

~Victor

jeffrey · Jul 6, 2005

Christ himself was not married, and the Pope, trying to be as 'Christ like' as possible should not be married either. As Victor pointed out, even the Apostle Paul stated it is best for a man to remain unmarried. This of course is in reference to someone teaching the Gospel, for if you are married, you must divide time between your wife and God. He also states that if you cannot control your urges, then go ahead and marry, rather then commit a sin. Since the Pope is a full time job teaching and leading the Church, he would not have time for a wife.

Uncertaindrummer · Jul 6, 2005

Also, I would add...

The Pope CAN be married. PRIESTS can't be married, but you don't have to be a priest to be the Pope

Although all Popes have been priests.

Voxton · Jul 6, 2005

Uncertaindrummer said:
...The Pope CAN be married. PRIESTS can't be married, but you don't have to be a priest to be the Pope
...

Exactly. The question should be, why can't priests be married? And the answer is quite simple: If a priest dies, his widow might lay claim to his property, such as his house. Rome prefers to keep their hands on that stuff.

Quiddity · Jul 6, 2005

Exactly. The question should be, why can't priests be married? And the answer is quite simple: If a priest dies, his widow might lay claim to his property, such as his house. Rome prefers to keep their hands on that stuff.

Voxton, what exactly does a priest own?

michel · Jul 6, 2005

Voxton said:
Exactly. The question should be, why can't priests be married? And the answer is quite simple: If a priest dies, his widow might lay claim to his property, such as his house. Rome prefers to keep their hands on that stuff.

Come come - that is below the belt and your own unsupported speculation. What is more your remark reeks of judgementalism fueled by bitterness...................:149:

Scott1 · Jul 6, 2005

Pilgrim of this Reality,

I'd just like to know how you came to know "God's will.

... and what the heck does the marital status of our clergy have ANYTHING to do with my salvation or yours?

Our celibate clergy is how we believe the Lord wants them to be.... what right do YOU have to question that?

Yes, Peter was married.... and many Priests today (in the Roman Church)are also married....and the Orthodox Church has married Priests..... how does this concern you?

What right do we have as God's creation to dictate to Him our terms?

Again... what the heck does the marital status of our clergy have to do with my salvation?

What do you mean by "dictate"?.... Do we have to find every minute detail of our religious life in the Bible?

Scott

Terrywoodenpic · Jul 6, 2005

Scott1 said:
Pilgrim of this Reality,

I'd just like to know how you came to know "God's will.

... and what the heck does the marital status of our clergy have ANYTHING to do with my salvation or yours?

Our celibate clergy is how we believe the Lord wants them to be.... what right do YOU have to question that?

Yes, Peter was married.... and many Priests today (in the Roman Church)are also married....and the Orthodox Church has married Priests..... how does this concern you?
Again... what the heck does the marital status of our clergy have to do with my salvation?

What do you mean by "dictate"?.... Do we have to find every minute detail of our religious life in the Bible?

Scott

To add to the above Many Church of England priests who converted to be Roman Catholic prists, over the Ordination of women were married and remain married.

Terry
___________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

Scott1 · Jul 6, 2005

Terrywoodenpic said:
To add to the above Many Church of England priests who converted to be Roman Catholic prists, over the Ordination of women were married and remain married.

Yep... thanks Terry.. I should have pointed that out.... Clergy of other faiths who convert to the RCC and are already married, may remain married (that's the only way for a RCC Priest to be married)... there are thousands of married converts in the US alone.....

Suzy · Jul 6, 2005

Scott 1.... with respect, I must say that I am very surprised at your angry response to "Pilgrim of this reality" Wasn't he/she just asking a perfectly reasonable question? And your comment "Do we have to find every minute detail of our religious life in the Bible?" well surely if we as individuels are trying our best to be good Christians then yes we should first look to what the Bible has to say reguarding every aspect of our lives. Especialy with somthing as important as Marriage.

Scott1 · Jul 6, 2005

Suzy said:
Scott 1.... with respect, I must say that I am very surprised at your angry response to "Pilgrim of this reality"

Sorry you were confused... I'm not angry at all....

Wasn't he/she just asking a perfectly reasonable question?

No, he was not.... in my opinion... what business of yours or his is the details of MY religion? He was preaching.... and I have every right (just as the both of you do) to call him on it.

And your comment "Do we have to find every minute detail of our religious life in the Bible?" well surely if we as individuels are trying our best to be good Christians then yes we should first look to what the Bible has to say reguarding every aspect of our lives. Especialy with somthing as important as Marriage.

Go ahead.... the one thing you won't find ME doing is questioning YOUR faith... worship however you please.... you won't see me start a thread attacking the beliefs of the JW's.... but, to each his/her own.

Peace in Christ,
Scott

Voxton · Jul 6, 2005

michel said:
Come come - that is below the belt and your own unsupported speculation. What is more your remark reeks of judgementalism fueled by bitterness...................:149:

That's quite the leap -- making such a conclusion as to my motivation, just like that... I have absolutely no reason to be bitter that Catholic priests can't marry -- in fact, I'm quite sympathetic about the issue. At the most, you might consider me a cynic -- but even then, you must account for the fact that I didn't say anything that hasn't already been said by Catholic priests...

It's a common enough opinion.

If you'd care to enlighten yourself, I recommend the excellent movie Priest (entry on imdb.com). It deals entirely different (but extremely compelling) issues, and the issue of marriage in the priesthood is just mentioned in passing, but it does describe the opinions that many priests have on this issue.

I'm obviously not saying that a movie is in any way a form of evidence. And I'm not saying all priests hold these opinions. But some most certainly do.

Quiddity · Jul 6, 2005

Voxton, you must of missed my question.

Victor said:
Voxton, what exactly does a priest own?

Scott1 · Jul 6, 2005

That's actually a great movie Voxton.... having to hear confessions in one of the toughests parts of the Priesthood.... a great many Priests would benefit from having a family to turn to when confronted by evil.... but many argue that the Priest need only to rely on the Lord.... which is true... but as a married man, I can't imagine being alone like that.

It takes a special kind of love and devotion to live that life.... but that's what keeping a celibate clergy is all about.

Scott

Suzy · Jul 6, 2005

Scott 1... First of all I would like to say that I hope that I didn't come across as attacking your religion because that was not my intention. I personaly can't see Pilgrims post as you did "as preaching" I could only see questioning,I suppose we will have to agree to differ. But I think it is very important for us all to question religion other wise how do we learn?and more importantly how will we know if a perticuler Religion has Gods aproval or not? When Jesus Christ walked the earth I just can't imagine him answering a question with "what business is it of yours". I have not said this to have a go at you,I genuinly just don't see it as you do.

Scott1 · Jul 6, 2005

Suzy said:
Scott 1... First of all I would like to say that I hope that I didn't come across as attacking your religion because that was not my intention. I personaly can't see Pilgrims post as you did "as preaching" I could only see questioning,I suppose we will have to agree to differ.

Agreed....

But I think it is very important for us all to question religion other wise how do we learn?

Hehe... there is a difference between asking a question to learn .. and asking a question because a person already knows the "answer" and wants to convince others... I'm pretty good at distinguishing between the two.
As far as asking questions and learning about other faiths.... I've got 4,000+ posts of educating myself... might be something to keep in mind.

and more importantly how will we know if a perticuler Religion has Gods aproval or not?

I already have made up my mind about that.... if you are not sure the path you are following "has Gods aproval".... well, I'd say run and find one you are sure about.

When Jesus Christ walked the earth I just can't imagine him answering a question with "what business is it of yours".

I'm not Jesus.

Suzy · Jul 6, 2005

Me again Scott 1. Just so there is no misunderstanding. I don't have a need to run and find any other religion because I have already found the one that I believe God does aprove of. I was just trying to make the point that I needed to question other Religions to get to where I am now.

OOOps, is this getting to the stage where I can be accused of highjacking the thread. Sorry, I am going now.

Scott1 · Jul 6, 2005

Hehe... no worries Suzy.... thanks for explaining.

Peace be with you,
Scott

Terrywoodenpic · Jul 7, 2005

Scott
I remember reading a long time ago, and the problem here is that much of the early historical writing in the UK is either "Protestant History" or "Catholic History", that in the middle ages and earlier Catholic priest were often married as were Bishops. Do you know anything about this and give us some factual data either way.

Off to church now i'll catch up later

Terry
_________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

Why must the pope be unmarried? What right do we have to add anything to God's Will?

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