Unitarian Christainity & Islam!

Most scholars don't believe the annynmous writer John (Gospel of John) used any of the other gospels as a source considering they have little in common and there are too many discrpancies between John and the earlier gospels. They are the most skeptical of John as well. Most don't believe any of the sayings in regards to Jesus's pbuh divinity to be true.

You can produce any earlier teachings of Jesus's pbuh teachings, apply it to the formula and the corruption become very clear and evident.

The main pillars of corruption the pharisee infiltrators introduced contridicts these same pillars of faith of earlier gosples of Jesus pbuh.

Whichever way you look at it the formula will always work and the research stays strong. Selectivity in picking and choosing of verses or none selectivity will always show the discrpancies between the gospels.

This is not a conspiracy theory but conspiracy fact. Evidence of perpertratues of corruption is very clear and evident.

Jesus pbuh himself warned of their evil desires, and their evil planning and plotting was also revealed in the Quran too

A good brother has sent me a documentory that he stumpled upon only recently, few days ago. The documentory which I am currently researching is only part of series of documentories. But at the end Robert Beckford himself a well known christian theologian confirms my research to be right at the end. His findings is based on a currently discovered gospel of Judas. The youngest brother of Jesus pbuh.

SubhanAllah I had no idea of this documentory and never based my research on such findings by another christian presenter. Amazing to say the least.

This only proves my research has good foundations and indeed very truthfull in intentions.

The christian presenter Robert Beckford himself says at the end of the SECRET FAMILY OF JESUS that Judas who was the brother of Jesus pbuh wrote that there are INFILTRATING ENEMIES WITHIN.

SubhanAllah. I will post the link shortly but wanted to re-watch it again to make sure I am correct in my findings.

The christian presenter Robert Beckford himself says at the end of the SECRET FAMILY OF JESUS that Judas who was the brother of Jesus pbuh wrote that there are INFILTRATING ENEMIES WITHIN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ubG...eature=related

It is towards the end but the beginning of the documentary just as important.

SubhanAllah even after this evidence of Robert Beckford he is still as blind as a bat in a cave to the truth. Unless his arms got twisted by his pay masters I am only assuming here.

301ouncer said:

...I am only assuming here.

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You do seem to have a penchant for assumption.

Kerr said:

Yes, but they are still different faiths. If you are trying to make an unbiased point about Christianity then the Quran does not have much to add to the discussion at all.

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hey kerr peace and blessings. And hello to everyone been away for a while but I am back.

I agree with you on that they are different, but I would add with similarities. Because the Quran mentioned in several places we have told you these story before in previous scriputures and they were stories you knew not (talking about Muhammed). And then you hear the same names and themes resonating from it it talks about Musa, issa, dawood etc etc. Forgiveness, mercy, taking care of poor, don't steal, don't kill etc

So even though they are different in some regard, they are similar in many regard for as the Quran says the closest to you in religion are the christians. Speaking to muslims

Now this biased nature you speak of exists but it is The same can be said for all the divisions of every religion including islam. You have jeh wit, mor, lutheran, meth, cath, baptist etc etc. We have shia, we have bilalian, sufi etc. And all will be somewhat biased based on questions raised on particular issues. My way is right yours is wrong this is why....

Now in terms of your statement about the Noble Quran not making a unbiased point about christianity you are correct. However the Quran does mention the scriptures and those they were entrusted to. The Quran says that the books or scriptures that were entrusted to the scribes changed the word of Allah for a worldy gain. Now if one studies the history of how the bible was compiled. Then it becomes clear. Bart Ehrman and Bruce Metzger are two world renowned christian scholars. Bart teaches at north carolina, head chair of religious study was magna cum laude at princeton seminary has phd. Read his book about the the scripture compilation to present day bible.

So its not that the Quran makes unbiased statements about bible or christianity. It is a book of truth so it tells the truth about the scriptures that they were changed. And this is what christian scholars teach at the university. That they have in fact been changed. So it isn't an unbiased statement just a fact. Something Muhammed couldn't have possibly known.

In all these discusssions the issue isn't whether you are right or wrong but is it the truth. Is the statement, scripture, proclamations etc. the truth. Absolute truth for truth isn't biased it is as defined. In other words it is what it is regardless of feelings. Take care peace

Who was paul? who was john? who was peter? who was? who was?

The bible is not accorded to Jesus pbuh but to these unknown men!

I give you a cheque with only my first name on it, would the bank accept it?

I hire a school teacher, 1st condition of employment a criminal background check!

I am a prison officer. I have no inmates in cells with only first names, They all must have family names!

What is their surnames? What jobs did they have? who was paul, etc?

Apparently the bible has no need for such background check or information?

[youtube]Y5ubGQ3IYSw[/youtube]
YouTube - The Secret Family Of Jesus episode II 5 5

Rest of the secret family of Jesus pbuh on utube. Really well done and touchs on very important key points that cements my research.

301ouncer said:

Who was paul? who was john? who was peter? who was? who was?

The bible is not accorded to Jesus pbuh but to these unknown men!

I give you a cheque with only my first name on it, would the bank accept it?

I hire a school teacher, 1st condition of employment a criminal background check!

I am a prison officer. I have no inmates in cells with only first names, They all must have family names!

What is their surnames? What jobs did they have? who was paul, etc?

Apparently the bible has no need for such background check or information?

[youtube]Y5ubGQ3IYSw[/youtube]
YouTube - The Secret Family Of Jesus episode II 5 5

Rest of the secret family of Jesus pbuh on utube. Really well done and touchs on very important key points that cements my research.

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Hey, the text in the clip is swedish or norwegian, it says "The fundamental for all Christians is that the thought (I think) that Jesus is divine", I knew does quick courses would be of use

Sorry, cant watch it, on foot need to go, but still, weird clip for a ISLAM thread...

Gabethewiking said:

Hey, the text in the clip is swedish or norwegian, it says "The fundamental for all Christians is that the thought (I think) that Jesus is divine", I knew does quick courses would be of use

Sorry, cant watch it, on foot need to go, but still, weird clip for a ISLAM thread...

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The fundamental believe for all christians is that Jesus is divine. But Jesus pbuh Family and his brother James's gospel show Jesus as a servant.

I would really recommend you to watch it from begining. It is in two parts. I have only included the concluding part but the begining is just as improtant.

It is not an All attack on christainity trust me. It just clearify and sheds new light on a newly discovered writtings.

Take a look all through it and let me know your thoughts.

Mujahid Mohammed said:

hey kerr peace and blessings. And hello to everyone been away for a while but I am back.

I agree with you on that they are different, but I would add with similarities. Because the Quran mentioned in several places we have told you these story before in previous scriputures and they were stories you knew not (talking about Muhammed). And then you hear the same names and themes resonating from it it talks about Musa, issa, dawood etc etc. Forgiveness, mercy, taking care of poor, don't steal, don't kill etc

So even though they are different in some regard, they are similar in many regard for as the Quran says the closest to you in religion are the christians. Speaking to muslims

Now this biased nature you speak of exists but it is The same can be said for all the divisions of every religion including islam. You have jeh wit, mor, lutheran, meth, cath, baptist etc etc. We have shia, we have bilalian, sufi etc. And all will be somewhat biased based on questions raised on particular issues. My way is right yours is wrong this is why....

Now in terms of your statement about the Noble Quran not making a unbiased point about christianity you are correct. However the Quran does mention the scriptures and those they were entrusted to. The Quran says that the books or scriptures that were entrusted to the scribes changed the word of Allah for a worldy gain. Now if one studies the history of how the bible was compiled. Then it becomes clear. Bart Ehrman and Bruce Metzger are two world renowned christian scholars. Bart teaches at north carolina, head chair of religious study was magna cum laude at princeton seminary has phd. Read his book about the the scripture compilation to present day bible.

So its not that the Quran makes unbiased statements about bible or christianity. It is a book of truth so it tells the truth about the scriptures that they were changed. And this is what christian scholars teach at the university. That they have in fact been changed. So it isn't an unbiased statement just a fact. Something Muhammed couldn't have possibly known.

In all these discusssions the issue isn't whether you are right or wrong but is it the truth. Is the statement, scripture, proclamations etc. the truth. Absolute truth for truth isn't biased it is as defined. In other words it is what it is regardless of feelings. Take care peace

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Glad to have you back. We had some lively discussions.

I do not agree. God is consistent in His word and that is what the Qu'ran is, not some doggerel spewed out by an idol worshipper taking a pernicious view of existing scripture.

This is an Islamic view of its own scriptures that is biased against Christianity as though Christians were an enemy. The truth is that the unwritten changes are far worse than the written ones and Muslims are just as guilty of doing it. Even so NT scripture is highly reliable in its retention of truth.

Amen! Jesus said "I am the truth." If you have something else, you don't have it.

301ouncer said:

The fundamental believe for all christians is that Jesus is divine. But Jesus pbuh Family and his brother James's gospel show Jesus as a servant.

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Christ's divinity does not exclude him from being a servant. He is indeed a servant of his Father. If you followed God the Father through his Christ in his Holy Spirit, you would also be a Son of God.

The Didache also mentions the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (chapter 7). Even the apocryphal text which you mentioned, the Gospel of James, speaks of Christ as Son of God (chapter 11).

Ouncer, let me ask you, and I hope you would respond with your own wordsrather then alot of copy-and-paste type I seen earlier.

Do you know the History of Judaism, Christianity (including all its denominations) and Islam (including all its denominations)?

That is, do you know the HISTORIC real History of it, with a timeline for the last, say, 3 thousand years? How one came from the other an they evolved and change?

And a last one, do you know the History of Judaism and where this religion stems from, what pagan religions it derived from and so forth?

Lucian said:

Christ's divinity does not exclude him from being a servant. He is indeed a servant of his Father. If you followed God the Father through his Christ in his Holy Spirit, you would also be a Son of God.

The Didache also mentions the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (chapter 7). Even the apocryphal text which you mentioned, the Gospel of James, speaks of Christ as Son of God (chapter 11).

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Hi lucian, From the documentary I posted it clearly shows the hands of the enemies within and their vehnem hatered towards Jesus, followers and his family. It clearly mentions how James was put aside and the didaches we de-cannonised.

Do you really think the pharisee political party would not change all authentic writtings to suite their agenda?

Do you really think these same pharisee and romans who killed Jesus pbuh and before him John the Baptist would take these same noble people message and spread it with its original message?

We are one community that is being of ONE GOD and his noble messengers, Unchanged OT, unchanged NT and Quran is our books.

Gabethewiking said:

Ouncer, let me ask you, and I hope you would respond with your own wordsrather then alot of copy-and-paste type I seen earlier.

Do you know the History of Judaism, Christianity (including all its denominations) and Islam (including all its denominations)?

That is, do you know the HISTORIC real History of it, with a timeline for the last, say, 3 thousand years? How one came from the other an they evolved and change?

And a last one, do you know the History of Judaism and where this religion stems from, what pagan religions it derived from and so forth?

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Gabe, If you read from begining of this thread I have included timelines of christianity, unitarian christianity, the agenda of the pharisees (without including the freemasons yet).

I do not have full knowledge of the full history of each domination, etc. The basics knowledge with a backup of historical evidence is a good starting point for me.

I am sorry but my lack of english communications skills would take some hours to put my sentences together. Therefore I have to rely on video, outside text to help me with communicating with others.

301ouncer said:

Hi lucian, From the documentary I posted it clearly shows the hands of the enemies within and their vehnem hatered towards Jesus, followers and his family. It clearly mentions how James was put aside and the didaches we de-cannonised.

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Those are your words. You've still shown nothing, just assumptions based on your pre-suppositions. Referencing to a movie or a website some guy made does not cut it, linking to a guy who says "this is so and so" is no proof at all, no matter how pompous a title he has. Quoting random scriptures taken out of context and adding to it something that is not based on anything is just dishonest. You need ancient sources, otherwise you are walking on thin ice. But I don't think you've really even read Didache or any other apocryphal work. You need to find proof that "the Pharisees took over Christianity and corrupted the scriptures", which is an absurd notion in itself. Why on earth would someone make a competitor for himself? Like I wrote, even apocryphal books show that there was no proto-Islam around, including the Didache. Just read it and see if you would accept it. You could not if you were a Muslim. If you do happen to accept it, then we can arrange a baptism for you. None of the movements were proto-Muslims. None of the people you listed would have accepted Islam as accurate (still no references to any of their writings or proof that they would have), and certainly not Arius who believed in the pre-existent Son of God. If he had denied the Son of God, his opponents would have demonised him even more and not make his stance seem more accurate! I even showed you what he wrote, and you were horrified at it. It's not hard to believe because of that that there were no proto-Muslims around, and Unitarians are and have always been Christians.

I also showed earlier how flawed your pre-suppositions are: I can also claim the Quran to be corrupted and claim the passages about Jesus being the Spirit of God and the Word of God to be the truth.

Lucian said:

Those are your words. You've still shown nothing, just assumptions based on your pre-suppositions. Referencing to a movie or a website some guy made does not cut it, linking to a guy who says "this is so and so" is no proof at all, no matter how pompous a title he has. Quoting random scriptures taken out of context and adding to it something that is not based on anything is just dishonest. You need ancient sources, otherwise you are walking on thin ice. But I don't think you've really even read Didache or any other apocryphal work. You need to find proof that "the Pharisees took over Christianity and corrupted the scriptures", which is an absurd notion in itself. Why on earth would someone make a competitor for himself?

I also showed earlier how flawed your pre-suppositions are: I can also claim the Quran to be corrupted and claim the passages about Jesus being the Spirit of God and the Word of God to be the truth.

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You welcome to bring similar claims that the enemies of Islam or a party be it a political or governmental that have infiltrated the Quran and twisted and changed to suite their agenda.

The problem you will find that the only names mentioned in the Quran is that of Muahmmed pbuh, messengers and the names of prophets family members i.e mariam, Zakaraya,etc. The Quran was a complete oral transfere from GOD, Gabriel, To muhammed pbuh hart then recited to the masses by memorisation.

The Quran was complete during the life of Prophet Muahmemd and right to the last day of messengership. The same does not go for the Bible as I qotued previously that the origianl bible contained the OT and some [FONT=&quot]For early Jewish Christians the Bible consisted of the Old Testament and some Jewish apocryphal literature. Along with this written authority went traditions, chiefly oral, of sayings attributed to Jesus. On the other hand, authors who belonged to the 'Hellenistic Wing' of the Church refer more frequently to writings that later came to be included in the New Testament. At the same time, however, they very rarely regarded such documents as 'Scripture'.

[/FONT]

Here lucian. We are one community worshipping one GOD with One message. As you know we believe in ONE GOD without partners but noble messengers sent to guide mankind.

301ouncer said:

Gabe, If you read from begining of this thread I have included timelines of christianity, unitarian christianity, the agenda of the pharisees (without including the freemasons yet).

I do not have full knowledge of the full history of each domination, etc. The basics knowledge with a backup of historical evidence is a good starting point for me.

I am sorry but my lack of english communications skills would take some hours to put my sentences together. Therefore I have to rely on video, outside text to help me with communicating with others.

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Don't worry about your english, but I wanted to know about Judaism which Cristianity is based on and the History of Judaism, if you know where that religion comes from?

Kerr said:

What does Muhammad and the Quran has to do with anything if we are discussing Christianity?

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Christianity did not start within the first two centuries after Jesus. The original followers of Jesus regarded him as a messenger or messiah. In the Gospels, Jesus claims to be God's messenger. He does God's work not his own. He teaches the word of God/Father not his own. He claims he (Jesus) was not good. Only God was good.

Paul noted the subordinate nature of Jesus and in his words a Lord not a God. He said Lord Jesus sat to God's right. Paul's teachings led to Arianism, which was not called Arianism until Bishop Arius preached it to become a majority of Christians in the Empire.

A separate group of Jesus followers in the Roman tradition deified him as a full god equal to God the Father and the borrowed Zoroastrian God Spenta Maingu (Holy Spirit.) This religion was clearly pagan in the Indo-European religious structure of trinities. Each Indo-European religion has a virgin born god-man and/or a resurrecting god man.

Arianism and the non-Christian Jesus followers (the oldest group) were banned. Arianism survived in the Germanic Kingdoms north of the declining Empire.

One was to view Islam in my opinion is that it represents Semitic Monotheism similar to the human Jesus followers of the First Century.

The Question is interesting. Is Islam an offshoot of the Jesus followers from another group who founded a Polytheistic Trinitarian Religion called Christianity? Alternatively, is Christianity a breakaway sect that left the Ebonite’s, Nazarenes, Mandaeans, and proto-Muslims (who sought refuge in Arabia) a few hundred years before Muhammad pbuh further defined Abrahamic Monotheism?

Christians are apostates from Middle Eastern Monotheism.

Ardipithecus

Lucian said:

Those are your words. You've still shown nothing, just assumptions based on your pre-suppositions. Referencing to a movie or a website some guy made does not cut it, linking to a guy who says "this is so and so" is no proof at all, no matter how pompous a title he has. Quoting random scriptures taken out of context and adding to it something that is not based on anything is just dishonest. You need ancient sources, otherwise you are walking on thin ice. But I don't think you've really even read Didache or any other apocryphal work. You need to find proof that "the Pharisees took over Christianity and corrupted the scriptures", which is an absurd notion in itself. Why on earth would someone make a competitor for himself? Like I wrote, even apocryphal books show that there was no proto-Islam around, including the Didache. Just read it and see if you would accept it. You could not if you were a Muslim. If you do happen to accept it, then we can arrange a baptism for you. None of the movements were proto-Muslims. None of the people you listed would have accepted Islam as accurate (still no references to any of their writings or proof that they would have), and certainly not Arius who believed in the pre-existent Son of God. If he had denied the Son of God, his opponents would have demonised him even more and not make his stance seem more accurate! I even showed you what he wrote, and you were horrified at it. It's not hard to believe because of that that there were no proto-Muslims around, and Unitarians are and have always been Christians.

I also showed earlier how flawed your pre-suppositions are: I can also claim the Quran to be corrupted and claim the passages about Jesus being the Spirit of God and the Word of God to be the truth.

Click to expand...

Are the Jehovah's Witnesses really Arians?

Ardipithecus

Ardipithecus said:

Christianity did not start within the first two centuries after Jesus. The original followers of Jesus regarded him as a messenger or messiah. In the Gospels, Jesus claims to be God's messenger. He does God's work not his own. He teaches the word of God/Father not his own. He claims he (Jesus) was not good. Only God was good.

Paul noted the subordinate nature of Jesus and in his words a Lord not a God. He said Lord Jesus sat to God's right. Paul's teachings led to Arianism, which was not called Arianism until Bishop Arius preached it to become a majority of Christians in the Empire.

A separate group of Jesus followers in the Roman tradition deified him as a full god equal to God the Father and the borrowed Zoroastrian God Spenta Maingu (Holy Spirit.) This religion was clearly pagan in the Indo-European religious structure of trinities. Each Indo-European religion has a virgin born god-man and/or a resurrecting god man.

Arianism and the non-Christian Jesus followers (the oldest group) were banned. Arianism survived in the Germanic Kingdoms north of the declining Empire.

One was to view Islam in my opinion is that it represents Semitic Monotheism similar to the human Jesus followers of the First Century.

The Question is interesting. Is Islam an offshoot of the Jesus followers from another group who founded a Polytheistic Trinitarian Religion called Christianity? Alternatively, is Christianity a breakaway sect that left the Ebonite’s, Nazarenes, Mandaeans, and proto-Muslims (who sought refuge in Arabia) a few hundred years before Muhammad pbuh further defined Abrahamic Monotheism?

Christians are apostates from Middle Eastern Monotheism.

Ardipithecus

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You have put it in a way I would have never be able to do it. If muslims can have more the like of you I would be learning from you.

Actully I have learn from you the good communication skills and literacy. thank you. You have answered the questions from friend Gabe and lucian on the history of 1st century christianity.