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Question for Muslims

Ori

Ori

Angel slayer
Mohammed never displayed a miracle, unless that miracle is considered the koran, which it is. As you know, Mohammed was supposedly illeterate, thus the miracle.

My question is if he was illetarate ( meaning he never read what was written), how can you be sure that the Koran truly reflects the message?
 
B

bloodnf

New Member
orichalcum said:
Mohammed never displayed a miracle, unless that miracle is considered the koran, which it is. As you know, Mohammed was supposedly illeterate, thus the miracle.

My question is if he was illetarate ( meaning he never read what was written), how can you be sure that the Koran truly reflects the message?
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The Quran is not just a written book. It is also a oral book. Meaning that the Quran was and is memorized in its entirety by many people. The oral copies of the Quran are a check on the written copies and vice versa.
 
Peace

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
orichalcum said:
Mohammed never displayed a miracle, unless that miracle is considered the koran, which it is. As you know, Mohammed was supposedly illeterate, thus the miracle.

My question is if he was illetarate ( meaning he never read what was written), how can you be sure that the Koran truly reflects the message?
Click to expand...
The Koran is the word of God revealed to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. It is the manifest miracle that falsehood cannot approach it. Prophet Muhammad read it out loud before the world. He made sure that its contents be preserved and his companions should learn it by heart and should also write it down. The Holy Koran reached us through historical continuity and perpetuation achieved through transfer from generation to generation, i.e. that so many people in every generation conveyed it to the next and so on that there can be no doubt about it authenticity. The generation of the Companions of the Prophet witnessed the revelation and compilation of the Koran during the life of the Prophet peace and blessings be upon him, and then handed it over to the next generation and so on.

It is a revelation from One Who is All-Wise and Praiseworthy. It incapacitated the most eloquent of people in the most eloquent of times to produce a single chapter that would be comparable to it, even if the whole of creation were to gather for that purpose. Allah, the Exalted, says:

"Say: If the whole of mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they assisted each other." (Koran, 17:88)

Peace be with you,
Peace
 
Peace

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
There are other miracles of Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him, such as his night journey to Jerusalem and his ascent to heaven, the splitting of the moon, water splitting from between his fingers, the palm tree yearning for him, increasing the quantity of food and water, stones greeting him and many other miracles..... BUT OF COURSE THE KORAN IS THE GREATEST MIRACLE.

Peace
 
Zxzyx

Zxzyx

Member
There are other miracles of Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him, such as his night journey to Jerusalem and his ascent to heaven, the splitting of the moon, water splitting from between his fingers, the palm tree yearning for him, increasing the quantity of food and water, stones greeting him and many other miracles
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Peace
Could you give the Quranic references of these miracles please because I am ignorant of all but the Night Journey.
Thanks
 
Peace

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
Below are accounts of the some of the other miracles of Prophet Muhammad(P) . Before reading these, it helps to know something about the Science of Traditions (Arabic: Ahadith), an exacting and comprehensive system developed by early Muslim scholars to verify the chain of transmission of these accounts, as well as investigating the trustworthiness and capability of every narrator at every level of the chain. This thorough authentication process ensures that these accounts are real, validated narrations of the sayings, actions, and tacit approvals of the Prophet Muhammad(P). The Traditions mentioned below are all from Sahih al-Bukhari, the most authentic collection.


Splitting of the Moon - "The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder" [Qur'an 54:1]

Narrated Abdullah:

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts. The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)."

Food Multiplication

Narrated Jabir:

My father had died in debt. So I came to the Prophet and said, "My father (died) leaving unpaid debts, and I have nothing except the yield of his date palms; and their yield for many years will not cover his debts. So please come with me, so that the creditors may not misbehave with me." The Prophet went round one of the heaps of dates and invoked (Allah), and then did the same with another heap and sat on it and said, "Measure (for them)." He paid them their rights and what remained was as much as had been paid to them.

 
Peace

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
Narrated 'Abdullah:

We used to consider miracles as Allah's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with Allah's Apostle on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from Allah." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of Allah's Apostle , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying Allah, when it was being eaten (by him).

Narrated Al-Bara:

We were one-thousand-and-four-hundred persons on the day of Al-Hudaibiya (Treaty), and (at) Al-Hudaibiya (there) was a well. We drew out its water not leaving even a single drop. The Prophet sat at the edge of the well and asked for some water with which he rinsed his mouth and then he threw it out into the well. We stayed for a short while and then drew water from the well and quenched our thirst, and even our riding animals drank water to their satisfaction.
 
Peace

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
Narrated Anas:

A man came to the Prophet on a Friday while he (the Prophet) was delivering a sermon at Medina, and said, "There is lack of rain, so please invoke your Lord to bless us with the rain." The Prophet looked at the sky when no cloud could be detected. Then he invoked Allah for rain. Clouds started gathering together and it rained till the Medina valleys started flowing with water. It continued raining till the next Friday. Then that man (or some other man) stood up while the Prophet was delivering the Friday sermon, and said, "We are drowned; Please invoke your Lord to withhold it (rain) from us" The Prophet smiled and said twice or thrice, "O Allah! Please let it rain round about us and not upon us." The clouds started dispersing over Medina to the right and to the left, and it rained round about Medina and not upon Medina. Allah showed them (the people) the miracle of His Prophet and His response to his invocation.


Crying of the stem of hte Date-palm Tree
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Narrated Ibn Umar:

The Prophet used to deliver his sermons while standing beside a trunk of a datepalm. When he had the pulpit made, he used it instead. The trunk started crying and the Prophet went to it, rubbing his hand over it (to stop its crying).
 
Zxzyx

Zxzyx

Member
Peace

Thank you

This moon splitting must have been a worldwide phenomenon! Do you know if we have records from around the world of this event? Astrologers must have had a field day. Do we know if the moon split in two equal halves or a bit broke off? I have read one theory that this prophecy was fulfilled when Neil Armstrong went to the moon and brought a piece back.

I don’t know what to make of the crying tree, could you offer your understanding of it please.

Are the other miracles you mentioned in the Qur’an? If not why not?
 
Zxzyx

Zxzyx

Member
Why does a prophet have to perform miracles?

A prophet has to perform miracles, according to Deut 18, so that the people will know what he says is from God and not all made up to get that individual fame, wealth and power. The passage says that any long term prophecies or life changing words from God (i.e. do this or don’t do that) have to be backed up with short term prophecies or miracles that leave no doubt about the prophet. Examples; I Kings 13 tells of a Man of God from Judah, 1 Kings 17:22-24



Why did John the Baptist not perform any miracles?

His message was ‘repent’. John was basically saying ‘you have the scriptures, STUDY THEM’. What he preached was the message of the Old Testament and he was not saying anything new but just stuff that was forgotten or ignored by the Israelites. The coming of Jesus was mentioned in prophecies in the Old Testament so John just interpreted what he read correctly, and had a relationship with God who guided him rightly. The only thing you could say that John ‘prophesied was Jesus’ coming and that happened in the next chapter and so to be understood as a short period of time so no miracles were needed to prove what he said.
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Peace.


I thought you might appreciate the following:-
A number of miracles were bestowed upon and performed by the Prophet Muhammad (P) to establish the proof of his prophethood. The greatest miracle bestowed upon him was the revelation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an is miraculous in a number of aspects: Its linguistic perfection and inimitability, its validation by recent historical, archaeological, and scientific discoveries, its prophecies and so on. Unlike the miracles of other prophets before him, the miracle of the Qur'an is eternal. Prophet Muhammad (P) also provided us with a number of true prophecies.

Below are accounts of the some of the other miracles of Prophet Muhammad (P) . Before reading these, it helps to know something about the Science of Traditions (Arabic: ahadith), an exacting and comprehensive system developed by early Muslim scholars to verify the chain of transmission of these accounts, as well as investigating the trustworthiness and capability of every narrator at every level of the chain. This thorough authentication process ensures that these accounts are real, validated narrations of the sayings, actions, and tacit approvals of the Prophet Muhammad (P). The Traditions mentioned below are all from Sahih al-Bukhari, the most authentic collection.


Source: http://www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Muhammad/Other/Miracles.htm:)
 
Peace

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
michel said:
Peace.


I thought you might appreciate the following:-
A number of miracles were bestowed upon and performed by the Prophet Muhammad (P) to establish the proof of his prophethood. The greatest miracle bestowed upon him was the revelation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an is miraculous in a number of aspects: Its linguistic perfection and inimitability, its validation by recent historical, archaeological, and scientific discoveries, its prophecies and so on. Unlike the miracles of other prophets before him, the miracle of the Qur'an is eternal. Prophet Muhammad (P) also provided us with a number of true prophecies.

Below are accounts of the some of the other miracles of Prophet Muhammad (P) . Before reading these, it helps to know something about the Science of Traditions (Arabic: ahadith), an exacting and comprehensive system developed by early Muslim scholars to verify the chain of transmission of these accounts, as well as investigating the trustworthiness and capability of every narrator at every level of the chain. This thorough authentication process ensures that these accounts are real, validated narrations of the sayings, actions, and tacit approvals of the Prophet Muhammad (P). The Traditions mentioned below are all from Sahih al-Bukhari, the most authentic collection.



Source: http://www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Muhammad/Other/Miracles.htm:)
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Many thanks Michel, I do really appreciate it!!!! :)

Peace be with you,
Peace
 
Zxzyx

Zxzyx

Member
1) Alexander the Great’s legends, true and false, appear in 80 languages, from Iceland to Malaya. The Parsees curse him for destroying their holy books.

In Central Asia he is Iskander. His red silk banner is still displayed in Ferghana, in Turkestan. Chiefs claim descent from him, their people claim descent from his soldiers, their horses from Bucephalus.

He appears in the Koran as Dulcarnain. In legend he explored as far as the Ganges, the Blue Nile, and Britain. He travelled to the heavens and to the underworld. In legends, he went indeed to the end of the world, and even to the bottom of the sea, where the very fish paid him homage.

He was the son of Apollo, according to his own mother, and there are signs that he believed this. At Gordium, he cut the fabled knot.

He tamed the wild horse Bucephalus with a word and a touch.

2)A Skye legend tells of how the Dunscaith Castle was built in a single night by a witch or faerie "All night the witch sang and the castle grew up from the rock with tower and turrets crowned; All night she sang, when fell the morning dew 'Twas finished round and round".

3) Darwin is rumoured to have become a Christian on his deathbed.

4) People dispute some of Napoleon Bonaparte’s achievements as legend.


My point is that stories are always invented about great people of history. Is it possible that some if not all of these stories are legend, especially since they did not make it into the Qur’an itself as you might expect they would?
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
Peace or others,

Can you tell me how you can rationalize that the writings of one man (Mohammed) can be the infallible word of god?

I read some of the posts about Oral Tradition, and I understand the contention that Mohammed was illiterate and could not have written the Koran on his own.

It is very suspect when an entire religion is based on the word of one man, very hard to prove infallible.

Sabio
 
Pah

Pah

Uber all member
A Reminder

This forum is for education and also for discussion amongst those that hold the faith specified.

Some of the "questions" I see and the comments made are not clearly within that purpose.
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
Pah said:
A Reminder

This forum is for education and also for discussion amongst those that hold the faith specified.

Some of the "questions" I see and the comments made are not clearly within that purpose.
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Pah, My questions are in good faith, I'm seeking understanding of Islam. If those that hold the faith do not want to help educate me, they will not answer my questions...

I read the discussion title as "Questions for..."

Sabio
 
A

anders

Well-Known Member
Zxzyx said:
This moon splitting must have been a worldwide phenomenon! Do you know if we have records from around the world of this event? Astrologers must have had a field day. Do we know if the moon split in two equal halves or a bit broke off?
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Not any more unbelievable than "And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed" (Joshua 10:13). The relative absence of miracles in the Qur'an makes me think that it is more reliable than lots of other sacred books.
 
S

Sabio

Active Member
anders said:
Not any more unbelievable than "And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed" (Joshua 10:13). The relative absence of miracles in the Qur'an makes me think that it is more reliable than lots of other sacred books.
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Are there any recent scientific discoveries that prove out the teachings/prophecies of the Qur'an?

Sabio
 
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