Evil-ution

Would it be fair to say that all evolutionists are essentially atheists. And would it not be fair to say that all atheists are bound to hell via the positions that the Creationists holds?

Thus an Evil - utionists (I'm being British : ) - cannot speak intelligably on in the ultimate final conclusions of anything. via creationist's view point.

Right? is this fair?

Viva

It's a dicto simpliciter.

I am a Christian evolutionist.

You have made some falacious assumptions that render your contention completely meaningless.

I dont think it would be fair to say that all evolutionists are athiests. There are many people I know from many different walks of life that see evolution as a valid explanation of living processes, and to them, this doesnt conflict with their religion at all. It's all about how you view it.

However, the mainstream "creationist" viewpoint does often-times view science itself as "unintelligent". I think it is easier to blow someone off and deem them dumb than to actually weigh out all factors. The fact is, unless someone has a time machine none of us can speak with complete unquestionable certainty. This is when i feel it is best to error on the side of what is explainable, then build your beliefs based on what you know.

I see no inconsistency between Christianity and evolution. In that respect, I agree with the Catholic Church.

NetDoc said:

It's a dicto simpliciter.

I am a Christian evolutionist.

You have made some falacious assumptions that render your contention completely meaningless.

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I am happy to call myself a Christian, and I accept evolution.

Would it be fair to say that all evolutionists are essentially atheists.

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No. I am a theist, and I believe in evolution.

And would it not be fair to say that all atheists are bound to hell via the positions that the Creationists holds?

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No. I, as a theist, do not believe that hell exists, but when I did, I did not believe you could be sent there for disbelieving something. I thought that the only reason you could be sent there was in willingly committing evil while knowing it to be evil. I now know, however, that hell, as it seems to be in mainstream Christianity, is sadistic (at least IMHO). No loving God would punish someone for eternity based on what they did for around 80 years (varies greatly depending on where you live), especially if what they did was not a knowing evil.

God must give some indication of his existence and intent if she wishes people to follow him. Otherwise, logic will prevail in stating that she does not.

Thus an Evil - utionists (I'm being British : ) - cannot speak intelligably on in the ultimate final conclusions of anything. via creationist's view point.

Right? is this fair?

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For something to be fair or unfair, it has to make sense. This, however, does not. Perhaps you would elaborate?

I'm going to have to add that I too am a Theist and an Evolutionist...

wa:do

I believe in evolution to a point. I don't believe a puddle of slime eventually grew into every living thing today, but I do believe a bit extra of something is grown for survival, such as more hair, more muscle, darker skin, etc.

Somehow, no matter how hard I try, I just can't see evolution as evil.

Viva asked:

>"Would it be fair to say that all evolutionists are essentially atheists[?]"<

It would probably be fair to say that most "western" cultures that retain large percentages of Christian adherents predominantly and/or primarily favor their own Creation myth over science/natural based explanations. But in being fair, one might also say that there are many "believers" (both Christian and non-Christian) that accept Evolution Theory as the "best" explanation that attempts to define our natural world (as the replies in this thread suggest)...as well as most, if not all, "non-believers".

Bear in mind that Evolution Theory does not *obviate* (nor discredit/disprove) the possible existence of god(s)...it simply doesn't *require* supernatural cause/effect as explanation. The evolution science is neither "pro-god", nor "anti-god". Only those that espouse the position of "you're either with us or against us" perceive a conflict with their faith or their understanding.

>"And would it not be fair to say that all atheists are bound to hell via the positions that the Creationists holds?"<

Is that your position?
1 Corinthians 2:11-14
Hmmmm...

>"Thus an Evil - utionists (I'm being British : ) - cannot speak intelligably[sic] on in the ultimate final conclusions of anything. via creationist's view point.

Right? is this fair?"<

"Fair"? That's for you to discern.
"Right"? Not really, no.

If we were to employ your rationale, we might equally conclude that no "Creationist" could intelligibly "speak" to supported conclusions offered by evolution science. While I would concede that many "creationists" don't display a particularly strong grasp of what evolution science IS (while evincing many gross misconceptions of what it is NOT), I can report that I have encountered quite a few "creationists" that can at least intelligibly discuss evolution science, even if they don't accept all of the conclusions that it may afford.

On the other hand, understanding Biblical accountings of "Creation" are not especially difficult to grasp or discuss from an unbeliever's perspective. You're welcome to argue that only the anointed and redeemed "truly" understand Genesis through "revealed wisdom", but you'll find that such arguments (ie, "You'll never understand until you believe") are not especially compelling or persuasive, and purposefully unintelligible.

"Science" is neither moral (good) nor immoral (evil), it's amoral; and THAT...I suppose, is "evil" enough for some...

Viva said:

... cannot speak intelligably on in the ultimate final conclusions of anything.

Right? is this fair?

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I think it is unfair to make fun of people's spelling, but I draw the line when you try to make claims about anyone's ability to speak intelligibly on a matter, and you can't even spell THAT word properly.

Right? Is that fair?

Viva said:

Would it be fair to say that all evolutionists are essentially atheists.

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no it wouldn't be

Viva said:

And would it not be fair to say that all atheists are bound to hell via the positions that the Creationists holds?

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no it wouldn't be

Viva said:

Thus an Evil - utionists (I'm being British : )NO you're not but you are being something else... - cannot speak intelligably on in the ultimate final conclusions of anything. via creationist's view point.

Right? is this fair?

Viva

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no it isn't
battin' 1000 here Viva

Athiest can speak intelligibly on the conclusisions concerning the creationist point of view and they will ignore them. Just as you've already done.

Would it be fair to say that all evolutionists are essentially atheists.

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No it wouldn't. Tawn posted an excellent thread on the differences between evolution and creationism showing them to be fully compatible. Unfortunately, for reasons I was unable to determine, it was not well recieved. However, his logic is sound and completely debases the assumption that most evolutionists are atheists.

And would it not be fair to say that all atheists are bound to hell via the positions that the Creationists holds?

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Not really. For example if I were a creationist Wiccan who did not believe in evolution (I'm not by the way) then this would not imply that atheists were bound to hell because I do not believe in a hell.

Thus an Evil - utionists (I'm being British : ) - cannot speak intelligably on in the ultimate final conclusions of anything. via creationist's view point.

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Even given your first 2 assumptions, which I have already countered, this conclusion does not follow logically from them since it includes a 3rd assumption that an evil being is incapable of stating a truth, something which is also unsupported, even from a creationist's point of view.

Fluffy

Sunstone said:

Somehow, no matter how hard I try, I just can't see evolution as evil.

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How can evolution possibly be evil ? - it is a phenomena which G-d provided for, untouched by Humans............
Of course, there's genetics, but that's a different story.

'Evil-lution'.... :biglaugh:

That's what happens when a Creationist tries to speak intelligibly about evolution....I call it 'convolution'.

Viva, what is up with this hit-and-run crap you've been pulling? Get back here and defend your point!

Sunstone said:

Somehow, no matter how hard I try, I just can't see evolution as evil.

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You've got to squint really hard, Sunstone! Imagine these protozoa as Darth Vader, swimming around in little black helmets. Picture Homo erectus, going down the 10 item lane with twelve items- (and this is the most chilling of all) knowingly.

Imagine a T. Rex with a Hitler mustache, commiting genocide.

Evil is not a term to throw around lightly. I use it for people who do not treat the others and the earth with the respect they deserve- not for someone who believes differently than I do.

And Viva, I feel badly that I haven't been around enough lately to know if statements such as these comprise the majority of your posts or not. You are probably a lovely person, but it's hard to gain that impression when you make statements as such as this one. (Not the idea behind the statement- everyone's free to believe what they want.) Perhaps you are a Christian, perhaps you are of another faith and pretending to be one in a misguided attempt to give them a bad name. ( Which won't work, because the majority of us are a fairly tolerant group, and we've got some mighty fine Christians among us.)

At any rate, if what you're posting isn't the 'real' you, please do us and yourself the favor of letting us get to know that person.

FeathersinHair said:

And Viva...You are probably a lovely person

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Only probably. That's abuse Feathers stylee.
:biglaugh:

Ceridwen018 said:

Viva, what is up with this hit-and-run crap you've been pulling? Get back here and defend your point!

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Good point; I was thinking that earlier - when you think about it, it's a quite a tactic; drop the thread, run, and when every one else has finished, you enjoy knowing how well you have manipulated them...........