So what’s so great about a Christian heaven?

No, really.

My local travel agent just can't seem to procure even one nice color brochure with pictures and locale descriptions of Heaven.

The Bible uses the term “heaven” to mean different things, dependent upon it’s use in context. “Heaven and Earth” is meant to imply the whole universe. For Jews, the “heavens” either represent the sky, the stars, or the place where God lives. Spiritually speaking, “heaven” is the “place of the everlasting blessedness of the righteous; the abode of departed spirits”. In theory, “heaven” is the place where good Christians go to hang out for eternity. The unsaved must work as cashiers at K-Mart, or burn in hellfire and brimstone for lots and lots of trillions of years (with no cable).

So what does the Bible say about heaven that makes it so cool (relatively and metaphorically speaking) and desirable?

[*Note - some text below compliments of Easton’s Bible Dictionary.]

Jesus called heaven “paradise” (Luke 23:43) - references to tropical islands were not alluded; and His “Father’s House” (John 14:2), with no shame at the thought of still living with your Dad at 33 years old. Peter said that heaven is an “eternal kingdom” (2 Peter 1:11) and “eternal inheritance” (1 Peter 1:4), while the book of Hebrews says that heaven is “a better country” with a “prepared city” (Hebrews 11:14,16).

Nice descriptors all, but kinda vague, dont’cha think? We all wanna know what we get for being good, right? What’s the payoff?

Details are few, but the blessed are said to "sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob," and to be "in Abraham's bosom" (Luke 16:22; Matthew 8:11); to "reign with Christ" (2 Timothy 2:12); and to enjoy "rest" (Hebrews 4:10,11).

In heaven the blessedness of the righteous consists in the possession of "life everlasting," "an eternal weight of glory" (2 Corinthians 4:17), an exemption from all sufferings forever, a deliverance from all evils (2 Corinthians 5:1,2) and from the society of the wicked (2 Timothy 4:18), bliss without termination, the "fulness of joy" for ever (Luke 20:36; 1 Peter 1:4; 5:10; 1 John 3:2). The believer's heaven is not only a state of everlasting blessedness, but also a "place", a place "prepared" for them (John 14:2). Not bad I guess, especially if you toss in the flowing milk and honey, and streets paved with gold.

So let’s see.
Live forever. Check.
No suffering forever. Check.
No evil. Check.
Constant and eternal bliss. Check.
Always happy. Check.

I suppose that’s all believer’s need to know.
As an unbeliever, I request enhancement and detail (that travel brochure), if you please.

Foremost, what does one do...forever? I’m sure Abraham’s bosom is nice and all, but a billion years of that would get a tad tiresome. Beyond being happy to worship and praise the Almighty for trillions of years without end, what kind of job is there to do?
One would think that God had all the maintenance and upkeep of heaven handled. I assume there’s nothing to buy or sell in heaven; no need for schools (what else does an immortal need to learn?), no hospitals (no pain, illness, or injury), no firehouses (Hell might have an opening or two, I suppose), no police stations (no evil, right?); no department stores (who needs clothes, shoes, or sunglasses?). There’s certainly no mention of recreational activities of any kind (No football on weekends? Are there weekends?); no restaurants (milk and honey excepted, is there any need of even consuming food when you’re immortal?); no movie theaters; no churches; no cars; no government; and presumably, no pets allowed.

Is the one occupation to be sitting around and shooting the breeze about how happy and joyous everyone is...forever?

And what about the interpersonal things?

Assuming a previous ex-wife makes it to heaven along with your current wife, does (or must) everyone share the same house and makeup? What about your ex's hubby/boyfriend?

If you ascend to heaven unmarried, are you allowed to date? Since procreation is no longer an issue, is sex allowed (at least the Muslims have that few dozen vestal virgins thing going for them)? Are cigars permitted? Is XO cognac flowing from some endless source (screw that milk and honey for my money)? Can I get french fries with that Big Mac now that I can’t get fat or die of heart disease (again)? Do ugly people stay ugly in heaven, or do they get a holy "extreme makeover" first? Do babies stay babies, endlessly crying (and doing you know what else), or do they get a “base age” of say, 25, to live out eternity? Does anyone really want to be changing baby diapers for the next trillion years or so?

What about entertainment? Again...no movies. No TV. No Nintendo. No magazines. No newspapers (no news). No competitive sports. All winners. No losers.

Joy. Joy. Joy.

No agony of defeat - ever (woo hoo!). How about art? Music? Are actors, painters, sculptors, songwriters, singers, musicians even necessary? What do you get to act, paint, sculpt, write lyrics, sing, or perform about besides the Great One Himself? Kinda tough crowd for Blues artists and country music songwriters when everyone is eternally happy.

Where does one GO? Is there a nice beach? Any mountains to climb? How about a pleasant sunlit meadow at the end of a trail through dense woods? Maybe there’s a scenic overlook of Hell somewhere, where you can spit on the poor heretics that didn’t make it (naw, that would be evil, and there ain’t no evil in heaven). Perhaps a diety-provided museum of former "Earthly Pains and Pleasures" (“C’mon hon, today let’s go to the museum for the 75,895,452,756th time and joyously partake of the exhibits again!”).

What is IN your house that is so kindly prepared for you? There’s almost certainly no need for a kitchen or dining room; or a bathroom (do immortal souls really need to shave, shower, or pee?); or a bedroom (surely immortals don’t need sleep or sex without procreation); or a den (no TV, no computer - you can always "Google" God, right?); or closets (who needs clothes, and even if you did, would they ever get dirty or sweaty?); or an attic/basement (what are you going to store - you have everything you already need?); no need of furniture (in a land without fatigue, pain, or suffering, chairs with lumbar support are unnecessary); no lighting fixtures (Hey, it’s heaven...complete with eternal divine light!); no need of tables, rugs, bookshelves; no appliances needed; no central heat/ac; no stereo (no iPod?). Maybe the empty house comes with a nice porch to joyously stand and watch all the other eternally joyous passersby, being their eternally joyous, happy, smiling selves...

“Howya doin'?”.
“I couldn’t be happier!”.
“I know! Me too!”.

So, believers get a one room, one floor doorless house to “live” in, in which there is really nothing to do. And maybe a porch. Who can top that?

Let me see if I get this heaven deal now...

I get eternal life in a place with no pain or sorrow.
I get to be happy all the time, for trillions of years, nonstop.
I get a house with no purpose to live in...forever.
Beyond constantly and for all eternity praising the Almighty for His generosity and compassion in providing these fabulous heavenly digs, my eternal existence serves no purpose.
I don’t need a job.
I don’t need to eat or sleep.
I don’t need to strive for anything.
I don’t need to learn anything.
I don’t need to know anything.
I don’t need to solve anything.
I don’t need to aspire to anything.
I don’t need to create (or repair) anything.
There’s no where else I need to be, even if I wanted to go there.
I don’t need to protect anyone, for there is no evil.
I don’t need to cheer or support anyone (excepting God Himself, of course), for everyone is eternally filled with joy.
I don’t need to mend anyone, for all are impervious to pain, injury, or sorrow.
I may get to spend eternity with my loved ones, but am I permitted to love them more than anyone else - and if so, what forms of expressed affection are OK with God (if you think going without sex for six months is an eternity - try a billion years on for size and see how it suits you)?

Never again a dull moment in heaven. Joy, joy, joy. Never a need for the simple pleasures of tilling a garden, singing along to favorite Eagles song, watching a sunset over the sea, playing fetch with your dog, or preparing a special breakfast-in-bed for your spouse. No plumbing to fix, no shingles to replace, no lawn to mow. Joy, joy, joy.

No heroes. No villains.

Perfection forever.

FOREVER.

And then some....

Heaven as paradise? Sounds like Hell to me.

Excuse me while I pour myself a nice hefty snifter-full of cognac, fire up a decent cigar, sit back in my comfy chair, and watch a TiVo’d Bill Maher on my wide-screen TV in rich Dolby Surround.

While I still can...

Addendum:
Eternity is a long time to spend anywhere (standing in line at the Dept. of Motor Vehicles itself seems like an eternity), without at least a little travel now and then. Heck, even a thousand years (a paltry millennium) seems like a pretty good stretch of time, yet if we assume an average life span of 75 years, ten centuries equates to ~13.4 lifetimes back to back. But a thousand years ain’t nuthin' compared to say, a billion years (a millennium being but 0.000001% of a billion. Big numbers are sometimes tough to get your head around, so let’s use something concrete and finite - the thickness of a penny, which is ~.05 inch (close enough). If one penny represented one year (0.05” high), then a thousand years would stack up to 50 inches, just a little over four feet. A billion years gets kinda tall at 50,000,000 inches, or 4,166,667 feet (about 798 miles straight up). To build a stack of pennies that would reach the moon (at mean distance) would only require 300 billion years (sure, that’s about 66.6 times (hmmm) the age of the Earth, but what’s 300 billion years in the face and span of eternity?). And keeping that average single life span of 75 years in perspective, that representative stack of pennies is a mere 3.75 inches tall. Kinda makes that 3 week (about 0.00287”, or three human hairs stacked up) trip to Disney World seem kinda puny now, doesn’t it? Fine. We all know a billion “whatevers” is a lot (even pennies), and that the thrill of victory never outlasts the agony of defeat. So what? So... what are you going to do that’s going to keep you interested for the next billion years (just a start, ya know) in heaven?

No takers yet? Nary one advocate/adherent of a Christian Heaven to offer their own Scripturaly supported and detailed travel brochure of what Heaven offers the eternally after-living?

Oh well...

s2a said:

No takers yet? Nary one advocate/adherent of a Christian Heaven to offer their own Scripturaly supported and detailed travel brochure of what Heaven offers the eternally after-living?

Oh well...

Click to expand...

My 'heaven' isn't scriptually supported, and the only brochure is on display all the time. Nature is heaven. Just go somewhere really quiet, where there are no roads, people, shops etc; sit down and let yourself soak up the atmosphere - That's heaven.

Id prefer the idea of Summerland. Its kinda the better things of Heaven, like no pain or suffering, and whatever you want. If you need something to perform an art, such as a paint brush, stage, or guitar, its thier. From what I've heard, there are various cities and locations thier that are similiar to ones one earth, so the soul can still enjoy the places it enjoyed on earth. There are still lessons to learn. And you can still love, eat, drink, and solve things. Basically, its the better things of "Heaven and Earth" combined, without the requirment of having to praise the "mercifullness and love" all the time.

Actually more substantial is a payoff or reward. Many of the monotheists religions ask for paritcular set of constraints or certain expectations. In order for a demand to be presented a reward, in a sense of fair play many times needs to be presented. Heaven is a form of fair play. Tit for Tat. If the person has accepted the existance of the diety there is less need to position the reward for complaince. It is attachted to the aforementioned belief not to validify the belief itself, but to qualify the constraints within the belief. The do's and don'ts.

What I would be more curious to learn is which religions started the notion of an afterlife of eternal bliss and how religions gained accpetance before an afterlife was forumlated.

You get to eat all the ice-cream you want.

So what’s so great about a Christian heaven?

Click to expand...

Everything.

Do I know what I'll be doing? No.

I am sure however that God has it all worked out, and everyone there will be quite pleased.

s2a said:

So what does the Bible say about heaven that makes it so cool (relatively and metaphorically speaking) and desirable?

Click to expand...

The presense of God. Hell of course, is the absense of God.

Death is scary to some, so make a belief in the thinking mind that death is not it, how is it that we of physical flesh can say with any certainty that there is life after death? Corpses do not speak and those that do are listened to by whom- A necromancer?

The idea of an everlasting life doesn't really appeal to me. I much prefer the idea of oblivion; just dying, never to awake again.

To answer the question, I haven't found or heard anything that I find redeeming about the Christian heaven. Maybe to others it sounds all nice and good, but it sounds like hell to me. I don't like the idea of living for all eternity, and I definately don't want to lose my own identity (there is no way my attitude and outlook would be allowed there).

Everybody has their own idea of Heaven, whether it's that it doesn't exist, to pure utopia. I think it's a place where there is peace and love. No hatred or jealousy. As far as specifics, don't know and really don't care. I'm I afraid to die? No. Would I be afraid to die with no afterlife? No. In fact it seems to me that you would be more afraid of dying and having a chance of not making it to Heaven then you would be to die and That's the end of it. In my opinion, I believe that some people don't want to believe in Heaven because they don't want to live the life that is needed to get to Heaven. So say there is no Heaven and do what you want to do with no consequenses. Spelled that wrong, didn't I?

To a people who had to work hard for a living, I'm sure an eternity of peace and rest sounded lovely. Doesn't appeal to me, of course, but different strokes, eh?

Hello, s2a.

Well, I'm a Christian and your description of Heaven bears virtually no resemblance whatsoever to the Heaven I believe in. It couldn't possibly be much more different. I hardly know where to begin in pointing out the differences. Maybe tomorrow, after a good night's sleep.

Kathryn

The greatest thing about heaven for me would be seeing god dance around the answers to all the questions I'd have for him. I've seen pictures of the JW version of heaven, creepy.

Whoosh. All of a sudden like, multiple replies! ;-)

All confirmational resposnes (ie, "I agree") are noted and appreciated, but this thread was primarily intended for self-professed Christians to address and lend enhancement/clarification (and referenced Scriptural support) to the claim of a Christian Heaven.

So, for the self-professed/described Chrsitian respondents (in no particular order)...

Hello Mister Emu,
You said:

>"Everything.

Do I know what I'll be doing? No.

I am sure however that God has it all worked out, and everyone there will be quite pleased."<

I appreciate your candor. Your faith is admirable. Your response is predictable. Your Scriptural support is negligible.

I'm curious.

Would you apply the same lack of skepticism and inquiry to virtually any other promise of "Trust me, you'll love it."?

Would you encourage others to purchase a house sight unseen? How about a car, a boat, or a vacation property? Would you suggest that someone buy a major appliance without access to technical specifications, warrantees, or even a picture? Would you place a loved one in a nursing home without investigating the property, staff, or the promised provisional care?

If you were a salesperson, and tasked to sell these items/services to anyone; but were not permitted:
- to present (in person) the prospective buyer the item/service for sale;
- to provide details of what the item/service offers;
- to show a photo, picture, or detailed schematic;
- to illustrate/demonstrate how the item/service operates, or is of specific use to the buyer...

...you're simply left to go make the sale, and if/when a prospective client confronts you with specific questions for which you don't know/aren't permitted to lend answer, your practiced answer is, "My boss says you'll love it! So, trust me!"...

...think you'll make the sale?
Would you buy anything from such a salesman? Why or why not?

[PS. Some salesman will insist that their item/service is FREE for the asking/taking, with no obligations, commitments, or constrictions attached. But we both know that's not really the case as far as Christian faith/dogma is concerned, don't we?]

Hello jgallandt,

You said:

>"Everybody has their own idea of Heaven...I think it's a place where there is peace and love. No hatred or jealousy. As far as specifics, don't know and really don't care."<

I appreciate your candor.
Please read my response to Mister Emu.
The questions therein apply to you as well (for your consideration and reply, if you wish).

>"...In my opinion, I believe that some people don't want to believe in Heaven because they don't want to live the life that is needed to get to Heaven. So say there is no Heaven and do what you want to do with no consequenses."<

Now waitaminnit. Who wouldn't want a veritably eternal existence free from strife, pain, and worry?
[My perspective is that I would prefer to go on living until I get bored with living...and that is not likely to happen within my remaining mortal days, or for some time thereafter.]

The "problem" (if you will) with "believing" in Heaven is that it is entirely a matter of faith, and even the faithful that retain an expectation of the rewards of an afterlife in Heaven can't (as yet) even detail what such a place (or "state of being", etc.) is actually like, even from their own "guidebook" of Scriptural tenants and beliefs. After all, Heaven is THE goal, THE reward - promised to the pious, the redeemed, the Saved - that defines the very reason and purpose for an (albeit brief) earthly existence of obedience to God's Word and Will, is it not?

Not accepting the Heaven claimed by Christians is not the same as free license to run willy-nilly through life: without accountability for one's behavior/actions; to be free of responsibility; or to avoid/ignore consequences of one's own deeds/words. Quite the contrary. If one does not accept the notion of supernatural/divine reward/punishment, then one neither has a god to thank, nor a devil to blame for one's own situation in life.

An atheist accepts all accountability, responsibility, and culpability for his own choices, behavior, reason/purpose in existence, and consequences of same. Trust me, that takes a lot more sustained effort and mindful will than simply saying "Praise God", or "Devil, get thee behind".

Hello Katzpur

You said:

>"Well, I'm a Christian and your description of Heaven bears virtually no resemblance whatsoever to the Heaven I believe in. It couldn't possibly be much more different. I hardly know where to begin in pointing out the differences. Maybe tomorrow, after a good night's sleep."<

Sleep tight. ;-)

I look forward to your pointing out the differences.

I sure hope that any detailed "differences" you illustrate will be supported by referenced Chapter and Verse (translation unimportant).

Personal testimonials, personalized revelations ("God told me..."), or personalized "interpretations", amount to nothing more than a personal opinion/perspective/understanding (which, in and of themselves, are just fine). Opinions are always welcomed and noteworthy, but they do not constitute support of a claim (in this case, the Heaven of the Bible).

This is a great question. What is so great about heaven doesnt really matter when the alternative is considered....I dont know if fiery damnation is litteraly physical, or a descriptive term for the spiritual pain and anguish...either way, heaven cant be that bad.


If your choice was to either purchase a car ...sight unseen...., or walk barefoot through lava, I would choose the car!

Hello and welcome kevmicsmi,

You said:

>"This is a great question. What is so great about heaven doesnt really matter when the alternative is considered....I dont know if fiery damnation is litteraly physical, or a descriptive term for the spiritual pain and anguish...either way, heaven cant be that bad.

If your choice was to either purchase a car ...sight unseen...., or walk barefoot through lava, I would choose the car!"<

Welcome to the forums. You should introduce yourself here...
"Are you new to ReligiousForums.com?"
[ http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21 ]
...if you plan on sticking around.

Forgive me if my rebuttal seems harsh or cold (I intend no ill will or feelings), but...what you offer is an adjunct of an appeal to force, or adverse consequence, and a false dilemma.

A "false dilemma" because: 1) The two choices offered are not related; 2) Purchasing a car sight unseen presents unknown consequence; walking barefoot through lava does not.

An "appeal to adverse consequence" because; Not accepting "A" defaults to "accepting" "B" ("pain and anguish"), therefore "A" is preferable.

Available options in making informed choices (and investigating/validating/debunking claims) DO matter for any critical thinker or skeptic. Evaluation of all options available is better still in rendering an informed decision.

You might say (or ask), "Would you rather be hot or cold?", or; "I'd rather be cold than hot", but neither choice affords the possibility of being neither hot nor cold.

Similarly, simply stating "I don't know about 'A', but it's got to be better than 'B'" is an argument from ignorance abetted by an appeal to force/adverse consequence (ie., "I'm not sure about Heaven, but it's better than pain and suffering in Hell", or "Obey God...or suffer in Hell").

Special pleading, false choices, and appeals to (especially unseen and unknowable) adverse consequence are not especially compelling or persuasive argument in support of a Christian Heaven...especially amongst heretical/skeptical "unbelievers".