Suffering and morals

Each life that is born, is destined to suffer. Most would agree.

When a man and a woman decide to have a child, why do they create the life, knowing it will suffer?

If I reject a God on the premise that, God would not create beings, knowing they would suffer. We give God a moral standard, that is far above our own. As illustrated every time we create a child.

So why are humans so morally low, to do this to our children? Or do we have a double standard when it comes to what we expect from god, but not ourselves?

Thoughts?

I suppose my point is, we call the God of the bible evil because he would create a world in which who knew some would suffer and some would be OK. Yet we do the same thing with or without God, right? We create in this world in which we know some will suffer and some will be OK? Does that make us evil?

Most people are biologically compelled to reproduce. I think the matter you're addressing has more to do with how we raise our children and try to protect them from harm rather than whether we have them in the first place. I think it's as natural (for most of us - my wife and I being exceptions) to desire offspring as it is to eat.

itwillend said:

Each life that is born, is destined to suffer. Most would agree.

When a man and a woman decide to have a child, why do they create the life, knowing it will suffer?

If I reject a God on the premise that, God would not create beings, knowing they would suffer. We give God a moral standard, that is far above our own. As illustrated every time we create a child.

So why are humans so morally low, to do this to our children? Or do we have a double standard when it comes to what we expect from god, but not ourselves?

Thoughts?

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My thoughts? I think you still need to give yourself a break.
1. life is what it is. yes, there is suffering. but there is no point in wallowing in it, instead you should focus on the positive points of light in your personal life.
2. rejecting God because there is suffering is not a good reason in really trying to understand the sources of suffering in society.

itwillend said:

Each life that is born, is destined to suffer. Most would agree.

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And each life that is born also gets beautifull moments and happy thoughts.
In avarage I'd say most people are more happy than sad looking at the rate of suicides compared to the amount of humans.

If there was no suffering at all in the world, how would one know to appreciate bliss?

goodjewishboy said:

If there was no suffering at all in the world, how would one know to appreciate bliss?

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There is no bliss, if you find it let me know please.

What one person calls suffering may not be considered so for the next person.
Are we going to get through this world without some type of suffering, probably not.

I don't believe that God created us to suffer, but that is part of life. A lot of suffering is created by our own selves.

If you want to bring morals into this particular post then I believe that the way we handle our suffering may or may not change our moral character. If you suffer because of a drug addiction for instance, you may change your morals and result to robbery, deceit or even murder to satisfy your craving. But this would be suffering brought on by the person certainly not suffering caused by God.

Caladan said:

1. life is what it is. yes, there is suffering. but there is no point in wallowing in it, instead you should focus on the positive points of light in your personal life.

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I agree. I don't think I am wallowing in it, so if I am kicking a dead horse here I will stop.

2. rejecting God because there is suffering is not a good reason in really trying to understand the sources of suffering in society.

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Do you think we would be as moral as we are today without all the texts like the bible, or other writings people hold sacred? Just out of curiosity.

itwillend said:

I agree. I don't think I am wallowing in it, so if I am kicking a dead horse here I will stop.
Do you think we would be as moral as we are today without all the texts like the bible, or other writings people hold sacred? Just out of curiosity.

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No. I think that because im an atheist, I can be more laid back sometimes, and appreciate the beauty of the Hebrew bible for what it is. it is perhaps the single most important foundation in Western morality, literature, poetry and arts.

itwillend said:

There is no bliss, if you find it let me know please.

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I think I only found my bliss after going through suffering (mine was a near death experience that left me with my face half full of titanium). Mine may be an extreme case, but I find joy now in the smallest of things. There are no absolutes in this life. Happiness is fleeting, so appreciate it when you have it. Suffering also does not last forever. So be brave, eventually it will end.

The Christian morals have no value to unbelievers, but I'm sure they haven't harmed anyone......

Charity said:

The Christian morals have no value to unbelievers, but I'm sure they haven't harmed anyone......

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I disagree there. when I first read the parables of the New Testament I thought I hit the jackpot. but perhaps because Jesus' parables were so Jewish

Jewish is a good thing.....

Charity said:

Jewish is a good thing.....

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LOL. thanks, but perhaps now day, everyone is Jewish.

itwillend said:

Each life that is born, is destined to suffer. Most would agree.

When a man and a woman decide to have a child, why do they create the life, knowing it will suffer?

If I reject a God on the premise that, God would not create beings, knowing they would suffer. We give God a moral standard, that is far above our own. As illustrated every time we create a child.

So why are humans so morally low, to do this to our children? Or do we have a double standard when it comes to what we expect from god, but not ourselves?

Thoughts?

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We reproduce for the same reason that we eat, drink, sleep: our genes drive us to do so.

CarlinKnew said:

We reproduce for the same reason that we eat, drink, sleep: our genes drive us to do so.

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So tell me what makes the idea of a God that reproduces for the same reason such a bad thing? Or is it a bad thing?

itwillend said:

Each life that is born, is destined to suffer. Most would agree.

When a man and a woman decide to have a child, why do they create the life, knowing it will suffer?

If I reject a God on the premise that, God would not create beings, knowing they would suffer. We give God a moral standard, that is far above our own. As illustrated every time we create a child.

So why are humans so morally low, to do this to our children? Or do we have a double standard when it comes to what we expect from god, but not ourselves?

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

We create children knowing we will do the very best we can to protect them from suffering.

God creates his children knowing he will not lift a finger to protect them from suffering.

itwillend said:

So tell me what makes the idea of a God that reproduces for the same reason such a bad thing? Or is it a bad thing?

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Does God 'reproduce'? Let us first remember that God is not a human being, nor a creature under the influence of the material.

I cannot comment from a Christian perspective as it is far too ambiguous and speculative so I will comment from my own understanding.

God does not have sex and give birth or have compelling paternal instincts that control his actions. God is everything. We are all manifestations of his energy. We are not literally children of God. We never came into existence. We have always been just as God, the Whole, has always been.

Suffering is a complicated topic. None of us appreciate suffering very much but then I think that we suffer because we live in ignorance. A lot of the time we attract suffering because of our own actions. But we need suffering to learn, to grow, to mature, to understand happiness. I think that the Bhagavad Gita is correct:

"[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]Never was there a time when I [Supreme Personality of Godhead] did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

"[/FONT][FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]O son of Kunti, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed."
[/FONT]

itwillend said:

Each life that is born, is destined to suffer. Most would agree.

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It's also "destined" to do many other things. What's the point? Sure, there is no one that doesn't get dealt a bad hand at one time or another during their life.

itwillend said:

When a man and a woman decide to have a child, why do they create the life, knowing it will suffer?

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Well, I'd say that's pretty simple - they like their lives to such a degree that they feel bringing a child into the world would be a good thing. Why do it otherwise? If one feels there's more bad than good to life, why have a baby?

itwillend said:

If I reject a God on the premise that, God would not create beings, knowing they would suffer. We give God a moral standard, that is far above our own. As illustrated every time we create a child.

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Well, no, it's not the "bringing into existence" that's the problem with god. It's that it, being all powerfull and all knowing, doesn't simply prevent random **** that happens to make us suffer. He can't? Ok, then what kind of a god is it?

Wouldn't you say that a father, holding a fire extinguisher and calmly watching his child burn to death in agony after having set his hair on fire "playing with matches" is immoral?

Can help, but doesn't => immoral
Can't help => not god.

itwillend said:

So why are humans so morally low, to do this to our children? Or do we have a double standard when it comes to what we expect from god, but not ourselves?

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I don't understand, why shouldn't there be a double standard? Which god are you talking about?